Boundaries assessment update 2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like it will be looked at this summer as she brought it up again in Glasgow MS meeting yesterday noting system-wide boundaries haven't been looked at in 37 years.

I'm curious to know how segregation-era housing policies were still leaving their mark in the 1980s the last time boundaries were considered. If even now in 2023 there is such fervor against SES integration, I imagine community input in the 80s played a role in creating the disparities we still see.

The changes in demographics and boundaries that resulted in the wide disparities among schools that now exist generally happened after the last county-wide redistricting in the mid-80s.

+1

I don't understand why people think redistricting will help educating kids. It just moves them around. The answer it to take the kid where he is and teach him. And, yes, it can be done. But, it takes work and it is not resolved by "equity" talk. It is resolved by instruction.

Pretty sure most people are aware of that, and the boundary conversation isn't about attempting to help the ESOL kids by moving them. We know shifting them around won't solve anything for their needs.

The issue pertains to either normal or advanced kids whose needs are increasingly difficult to meet at schools where the majority of kids are below grade level. Schools where enrichment opportunities and clubs are scarce due to low levels of parental involvement and volunteering. Not blaming the parents there; they're likely working double-shift service and retail jobs. Not blaming FARMs kids either; they don't have the privilege of savvy parents pushing them into activities like Science Olympiad.

But nonetheless the state of affairs creates a dearth of opportunity in some regions. It's the middle-of-the-road kids that are left in a situation that is too under-subscribed.

This won't help. Schools should be based on location and community. Shifting kids out of neighborhoods is not helpful. After school clubs and activities in high schools requires transportation. Shifting kids out of neighborhoods will not help that.
And, we already have problems with having enough bus drivers.

Yes, but there are communities that have schools closer to them but they get bussed to a different area. They should absolutely fix boundaries that make no sense. If there is a school a mile away and then they get bussed to one 4 miles away.

But, sometimes schools are overcrowded and there is no other way. For example, there are several neighborhoods that are much, much closer to Chantilly than Oakton. However, they go to Oakton because there is no room at Chantilly and all the neighborhoods that are assigned to Chantilly are close to Chantilly, too.

How would you resolve that?

Exactly. PP can complain about where the schools are located but those are sunk costs and it means some kids are going to end up traveling long distances to certain schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1/3 of FCPS students are economically disadvantaged. You are never going to be able to get perfect parity with this. There are also over 35,000 English learners --they may not all be disadvantaged.

With 179,000 students, a boundary shift would be massive. It would also involve major shifts in staffing.
In a nutshell: it would be a mess. There is no easy fix to this.

The SB and the superintendent need to drop the social issues and work on good, solid instruction.

And, from what I can tell, the schools with the real poverty are not anywhere near affluent schools.

The five poorest high schools are Annandale, Falls Church, Justice, Lewis, and Mount Vernon. Three of the five are near affluent schools: Annandale is near Woodson, Falls Church is near Marshall, and Lewis is near West Springfield.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly still think the two best things to address some of the underlying issues are to get rid of AAP centers (have LLIV at every ES/MS) and IB (thereby reducing the number of pupil placements).

If you think that getting rid of IB will fix Lewis, you are not coming from a place of good faith.

Lewis has large out-placements to AP schools. Get rid of IB at Lewis and offer a full menu of AP courses - even if some of those AP classes only have a small number of kids - and the number of pupil placements immediately goes down significantly.

Lewis would never be able to offer the number and variety of AP classes that other schools do. Academically focused families would just find another way for their students to attend another public, go private, or homeschool. The best option for Lewis is to make it a magnet vocational/trades high school and allow students zoned for Lewis to opt to another nearby HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly still think the two best things to address some of the underlying issues are to get rid of AAP centers (have LLIV at every ES/MS) and IB (thereby reducing the number of pupil placements).

If you think that getting rid of IB will fix Lewis, you are not coming from a place of good faith.

Lewis has large out-placements to AP schools. Get rid of IB at Lewis and offer a full menu of AP courses - even if some of those AP classes only have a small number of kids - and the number of pupil placements immediately goes down significantly.

Lewis would never be able to offer the number and variety of AP classes that other schools do. Academically focused families would just find another way for their students to attend another public, go private, or homeschool. The best option for Lewis is to make it a magnet vocational/trades high school and allow students zoned for Lewis to opt to another nearby HS.

Falls Church is AP and it does a lot better than Lewis. They offer a bunch of AP courses and also foreign languages like Japanese and Vietnamese.

The odds of turning Lewis into a “magnet” vocational school seem low to non-existent. You wouldn’t necessarily get that many kids given the Academy programs already in place at Edison and West Potomac and you’d overcrowd other schools like West Springfield and Edison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

I’ve never understood why they allowed Carson to become such an AAP center behemoth when other middle schools like Franklin could have AAP.

Franklin has had a LLIV AAP program for about 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly still think the two best things to address some of the underlying issues are to get rid of AAP centers (have LLIV at every ES/MS) and IB (thereby reducing the number of pupil placements).

If you think that getting rid of IB will fix Lewis, you are not coming from a place of good faith.

Lewis has large out-placements to AP schools. Get rid of IB at Lewis and offer a full menu of AP courses - even if some of those AP classes only have a small number of kids - and the number of pupil placements immediately goes down significantly.

Lewis would never be able to offer the number and variety of AP classes that other schools do. Academically focused families would just find another way for their students to attend another public, go private, or homeschool. The best option for Lewis is to make it a magnet vocational/trades high school and allow students zoned for Lewis to opt to another nearby HS.

They have 1700 students, it’s small by FCPS standards but there are many students throughout the country who attend schools that size or smaller. They can offer at least some AP classes. Or they could dump IB at all the other nearby schools and keep it at Lewis or wherever for transfers for the kids who want it. But IB is such a language intensive program - is it really the best fit for a school with a lot of English language learners? And is it really necessary to be at Lewis AND Edison AND Mt. Vernon AND Annandale all in the same general area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

I’ve never understood why they allowed Carson to become such an AAP center behemoth when other middle schools like Franklin could have AAP.

Franklin has had a LLIV AAP program for about 10 years.

Hardly the same. A large number of Franklin-zoned AAP kids go to Carson. The opposite is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like it will be looked at this summer as she brought it up again in Glasgow MS meeting yesterday noting system-wide boundaries haven't been looked at in 37 years.

I'm curious to know how segregation-era housing policies were still leaving their mark in the 1980s the last time boundaries were considered. If even now in 2023 there is such fervor against SES integration, I imagine community input in the 80s played a role in creating the disparities we still see.

The changes in demographics and boundaries that resulted in the wide disparities among schools that now exist generally happened after the last county-wide redistricting in the mid-80s.

+1

I don't understand why people think redistricting will help educating kids. It just moves them around. The answer it to take the kid where he is and teach him. And, yes, it can be done. But, it takes work and it is not resolved by "equity" talk. It is resolved by instruction.

Pretty sure most people are aware of that, and the boundary conversation isn't about attempting to help the ESOL kids by moving them. We know shifting them around won't solve anything for their needs.

The issue pertains to either normal or advanced kids whose needs are increasingly difficult to meet at schools where the majority of kids are below grade level. Schools where enrichment opportunities and clubs are scarce due to low levels of parental involvement and volunteering. Not blaming the parents there; they're likely working double-shift service and retail jobs. Not blaming FARMs kids either; they don't have the privilege of savvy parents pushing them into activities like Science Olympiad.

But nonetheless the state of affairs creates a dearth of opportunity in some regions. It's the middle-of-the-road kids that are left in a situation that is too under-subscribed.

This won't help. Schools should be based on location and community. Shifting kids out of neighborhoods is not helpful. After school clubs and activities in high schools requires transportation. Shifting kids out of neighborhoods will not help that.
And, we already have problems with having enough bus drivers.

Yes, but there are communities that have schools closer to them but they get bussed to a different area. They should absolutely fix boundaries that make no sense. If there is a school a mile away and then they get bussed to one 4 miles away.

But, sometimes schools are overcrowded and there is no other way. For example, there are several neighborhoods that are much, much closer to Chantilly than Oakton. However, they go to Oakton because there is no room at Chantilly and all the neighborhoods that are assigned to Chantilly are close to Chantilly, too.

How would you resolve that?

I get that. But not always true at ES level. Every ES has at least a few surrounding them that are not over crowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

That’s what honors is. No need to call it something else. Provide level 4 curriculum in the honors classes because those already exist.

+1
Common sense is seriously lacking within FCPS.

[Anonymous]

AAP Centers and the extra busing that goes with them need to end. Ridiculous that one group of kids gets to choose their school, while the other group doesn't. FCPS talks a big game about "equity," but the reality is anything but.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

I’ve never understood why they allowed Carson to become such an AAP center behemoth when other middle schools like Franklin could have AAP.

Franklin has had a LLIV AAP program for about 10 years.

Hardly the same. A large number of Franklin-zoned AAP kids go to Carson. The opposite is not true.

The opposite is not possible. LLIV means it is only available to students zoned for that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP Centers and the extra busing that goes with them need to end. Ridiculous that one group of kids gets to choose their school, while the other group doesn't. FCPS talks a big game about "equity," but the reality is anything but.

At the elementary level it makes sense and actually creates more equity because otherwise people would just not live in poor high school boundaries. TJ does the same thing at the high school level. It does not make sense at the middle school level to do more than honors and regular classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP Centers and the extra busing that goes with them need to end. Ridiculous that one group of kids gets to choose their school, while the other group doesn't. FCPS talks a big game about "equity," but the reality is anything but.

At the elementary level it makes sense and actually creates more equity because otherwise people would just not live in poor high school boundaries. TJ does the same thing at the high school level. It does not make sense at the middle school level to do more than honors and regular classes

People don’t want to live in the Lewis district regardless of whether there’s an AAP center at Springfield Estates. Getting rid of AAP at Twain might only make things worse, and sending 5 kids to TJ from Key every year is largely irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

I’ve never understood why they allowed Carson to become such an AAP center behemoth when other middle schools like Franklin could have AAP.

Franklin has had a LLIV AAP program for about 10 years.

Hardly the same. A large number of Franklin-zoned AAP kids go to Carson. The opposite is not true.

The opposite is not possible. LLIV means it is only available to students zoned for that school.

Which is why the earlier post was irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

A whole county realignment is needed. Stop the patching. Reduce the number of IB High Schools in the eastern part of the county. IB seems to work better with several AP high schools nearby - Marshall and South Lakes are examples. That way they can have more robust programs. Make a decision about the new western high school and get it going.