Disappointed by TJ decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can a parent ask that who all were in top 1.5%? The information that my DC got from school is ridiculous. I never believed ppl saying that the new admission process is a lottery system. But now I do.
Why some schools are not TJ’s favorite? Not mentioning the school but there are schools where less than 10 students are admitted every year.

There was a proposal to make TJ admissions more of a lottery but it was not adopted. If anyone suggested it was, they were mistaken and you were misled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

DP. There's an insistence that these two goals are mutually exclusive. They're not, and the insistence that they are, no matter how florid your language, is racist. Full stop.

The goal of the admission changes, in part, was to increase underrepresented minority enrollment. These admissions changes accomplished that. Many understand that large URM population centers in fairfax are in pyramids with traditionally underrepresented MS for TJ admissions and often lack comparitively accelerated Math tracks. This results in admissions of students who are below the previous math rigor as highlighted regarding 8th grade algebra admits. The schools overall long term advanced achievement levels suffer as well. 1 to 2 levels of math behind previous years.

They, Diversity and Academic Achievement are not mutually exclusive as Im sure the new admits are very smart students. But one is being favored more than previously and the result is kids with lower performance indicators, and in many cases of no fault of their own. These are just stats, not racism.

That's fine. But when you insist on phrasing like "If DEI is the goal over academic achievement", you're placing the two in contradistinction to one another in order to push an agenda. No one made you do that.

No FCPS did that all by themselves. Things like experience factors and quota systems almost guarantee that. Dont be sensitive to the results of the stated objectives of FCPS and the TJ admissions process. This is exactly what many wanted. Those of us who disagree with the approach are literally defining it with the words of the people that supported the change and the statistics of the results. That doesnt mean the old method wasnt without flaws. We are discussing the new method.

These newly accepted students are great students in their own right, but they havent achieved the same level of academic success as previous cohorts. These are just raw facts and it seems to bother you.

Those facts aren't relevant to the conversation and only refer to one very narrow part of the total academic profile of these students. You're highlighting that one metric to push a narrative - that's what bothers me. It's the insistence that math advancement can be used as a proxy for merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

There is a perception of diminished quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

Wow, this is some of the most elitist drivel I’ve ever read. You acknowledge that kids could be brilliant but lack access to super accelerated math, but you still think those kids don’t deserve a chance at TJ admission. Incredible. It’s a freaking public school. You want to use your money & prestige to get (even more of a) advantage, go somewhere else.

They had a chance under the previous system. The difference is the previous system had an understanding that such students were unlikely to do well, and only took those who stood out.
There were single digit numbers of students taking algebra in 8th grade, and now it is more than 100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

Wow, this is some of the most elitist drivel I’ve ever read. You acknowledge that kids could be brilliant but lack access to super accelerated math, but you still think those kids don’t deserve a chance at TJ admission. Incredible. It’s a freaking public school. You want to use your money & prestige to get (even more of a) advantage, go somewhere else.

They had a chance under the previous system. The difference is the previous system had an understanding that such students were unlikely to do well, and only took those who stood out.
There were single digit numbers of students taking algebra in 8th grade, and now it is more than 100.

And why is that understanding correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

There is a perception of diminished quality.

Exactly. If families don’t pursue TJ because of evidence or a perception of diminished quality, that’s a rational decision and it will exacerbate the decline in the school’s reputation. I wish PP would be more honest and admit they were more than prepared to accept this decline in exchange for increasing the perception that TJ was more welcoming of students applying from certain schools or communities.

PP also implies the changes will elicit more applications but I believe there was a small spike for the Class of 2025, a decline in applications for the Class of 2026, and flat applications this year. I’ll acknowledge things may still be in flux but the evidence to date doesn’t suggest the changes are prompting a significant increase in interest so much as a reallocation of interest. Again, that may have been what FCPS wanted, which isn’t to say they planned for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

DP. There's an insistence that these two goals are mutually exclusive. They're not, and the insistence that they are, no matter how florid your language, is racist. Full stop.

The goal of the admission changes, in part, was to increase underrepresented minority enrollment. These admissions changes accomplished that. Many understand that large URM population centers in fairfax are in pyramids with traditionally underrepresented MS for TJ admissions and often lack comparitively accelerated Math tracks. This results in admissions of students who are below the previous math rigor as highlighted regarding 8th grade algebra admits. The schools overall long term advanced achievement levels suffer as well. 1 to 2 levels of math behind previous years.

They, Diversity and Academic Achievement are not mutually exclusive as Im sure the new admits are very smart students. But one is being favored more than previously and the result is kids with lower performance indicators, and in many cases of no fault of their own. These are just stats, not racism.

That's fine. But when you insist on phrasing like "If DEI is the goal over academic achievement", you're placing the two in contradistinction to one another in order to push an agenda. No one made you do that.

No FCPS did that all by themselves. Things like experience factors and quota systems almost guarantee that. Dont be sensitive to the results of the stated objectives of FCPS and the TJ admissions process. This is exactly what many wanted. Those of us who disagree with the approach are literally defining it with the words of the people that supported the change and the statistics of the results. That doesnt mean the old method wasnt without flaws. We are discussing the new method.

These newly accepted students are great students in their own right, but they havent achieved the same level of academic success as previous cohorts. These are just raw facts and it seems to bother you.

Those facts aren't relevant to the conversation and only refer to one very narrow part of the total academic profile of these students. You're highlighting that one metric to push a narrative - that's what bothers me. It's the insistence that math advancement can be used as a proxy for merit.

Mathematical advancement and understanding is hugely important in STEM areas, from being wholly necessary for complex sciences, to helping create and enforce algorithmic thinking to be partnered with advanced computing subjects, to the students also going beyond the standard path that any AP center can offer and representing the school above and beyond what a standard FCPS school provides.

Its not that they arent capable of completing algebra II in 8th grade or even geometry, they just havent. And as such, are at a deficit. The reasons are immaterial really; its just a reality and a reality that was ushered in with the new admissions. Its a narrative but a relevant one.

No amount of brushing away the relevance of math levels will change how important they are. Maybe you dont think Math is hugely important to a school like TJ, but I think you would be in the minority and are being willfully obtuse to avoid acknowledging the importance of these fundamental facts.

Have a good evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can a parent ask that who all were in top 1.5%? The information that my DC got from school is ridiculous. I never believed ppl saying that the new admission process is a lottery system. But now I do.
Why some schools are not TJ’s favorite? Not mentioning the school but there are schools where less than 10 students are admitted every year.

There was a proposal to make TJ admissions more of a lottery but it was not adopted. If anyone suggested it was, they were mistaken and you were misled.

I think they are saying the people who were accepted were not top students. Even if not officially a lottery, it looks like a lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love in how every other FCPS related thread, there are like dozens of comments about how kids are struggling since covid, but that conveniently gets forgotten when it comes to the TJ kids in their freshman and sophomore years who spent MS in the same covid environment.

But yeah, any struggle noted by the numbers MUST be those underprepared, spot stealing DEI tokens.

That point tracks if all grades struggled at TJ. As it stands the school is split between old (11/12) and new (9/10) admissions groups and the old ones also happened to deal with covid as well, weird I know. They are seemingly unaffected. There is nuance here for sure, but you cant ignore those inconvenient facts.

Oddly enough, the same URM students that are oft cited as reasons for more supports and scaffolding like test retakes, no homework, and minimum standard grades, are also being thrown into a system that actually demands more from their students. Its possible that these issues are still at play.

What is your proof that older students are not struggling and that younger ones (do you even hear yourself--of course the older students who had strong MS experience would do fine) are struggling, and that they are struggling because they are unworthy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

Wow, this is some of the most elitist drivel I’ve ever read. You acknowledge that kids could be brilliant but lack access to super accelerated math, but you still think those kids don’t deserve a chance at TJ admission. Incredible. It’s a freaking public school. You want to use your money & prestige to get (even more of a) advantage, go somewhere else.

There are lots of brilliant kids. I imagine out of the 70 or so kids that completed Algebra II before high school, there are a few brilliant ones as well. And now we have taken away their shot in favor of someone else because of things like experience factors that are completely out of either kids control.

There is not enough spots to go around, so you just want to give spots to these other kids and then act surprised when the kids that are now denied admission want their spots back?

This phrasing presumes that the spots previously "belonged" to those children as some sort of fait accompli. It betrays the mindset that those spots are "ours" and that they've been "taken away". Echoes of the Great Replacement Theory here. Ugly to say the least.

+100. “Want their spots back”?? Do you even hear yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There were some surprises at DC’s school. DC did get in and it was not a surprise for us. Given the nature of the admission process, the key is to crack the SPS and PSE in such a way that it would stand out. DC included some out of box critical insights on the PSE part and wrote very specific things about TJ those are of interest to DC. DC’s friends who did not get in wrote about robotics, math count and such things. My hunch is that 99% of kids would write about these things so you really need to find some creative ways to stand out.
Finally, even if you are brilliant in STEM, it is extremely critical to adapt to the TJ testing procedure to get a chance. It is no longer a given that just because you are a STEM superstar then you will get in.
Wishing good luck to all waitpooled kids. I am not sure how the waitpool process works. If a kid declines does it go to a kid from same school (as in AOS) or it will be offered to the next kid in line on his points even though he’s from a different school?

Unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

DP. There's an insistence that these two goals are mutually exclusive. They're not, and the insistence that they are, no matter how florid your language, is racist. Full stop.

The goal of the admission changes, in part, was to increase underrepresented minority enrollment. These admissions changes accomplished that. Many understand that large URM population centers in fairfax are in pyramids with traditionally underrepresented MS for TJ admissions and often lack comparitively accelerated Math tracks. This results in admissions of students who are below the previous math rigor as highlighted regarding 8th grade algebra admits. The schools overall long term advanced achievement levels suffer as well. 1 to 2 levels of math behind previous years.

They, Diversity and Academic Achievement are not mutually exclusive as Im sure the new admits are very smart students. But one is being favored more than previously and the result is kids with lower performance indicators, and in many cases of no fault of their own. These are just stats, not racism.

That's fine. But when you insist on phrasing like "If DEI is the goal over academic achievement", you're placing the two in contradistinction to one another in order to push an agenda. No one made you do that.

No FCPS did that all by themselves. Things like experience factors and quota systems almost guarantee that. Dont be sensitive to the results of the stated objectives of FCPS and the TJ admissions process. This is exactly what many wanted. Those of us who disagree with the approach are literally defining it with the words of the people that supported the change and the statistics of the results. That doesnt mean the old method wasnt without flaws. We are discussing the new method.

These newly accepted students are great students in their own right, but they havent achieved the same level of academic success as previous cohorts. These are just raw facts and it seems to bother you.

Those facts aren't relevant to the conversation and only refer to one very narrow part of the total academic profile of these students. You're highlighting that one metric to push a narrative - that's what bothers me. It's the insistence that math advancement can be used as a proxy for merit.

Mathematical advancement and understanding is hugely important in STEM areas, from being wholly necessary for complex sciences, to helping create and enforce algorithmic thinking to be partnered with advanced computing subjects, to the students also going beyond the standard path that any AP center can offer and representing the school above and beyond what a standard FCPS school provides.

Its not that they arent capable of completing algebra II in 8th grade or even geometry, they just havent. And as such, are at a deficit. The reasons are immaterial really; its just a reality and a reality that was ushered in with the new admissions. Its a narrative but a relevant one.

No amount of brushing away the relevance of math levels will change how important they are. Maybe you dont think Math is hugely important to a school like TJ, but I think you would be in the minority and are being willfully obtuse to avoid acknowledging the importance of these fundamental facts.

Have a good evening.

Agree that's why it's critical they pick the brightest and best not just a few dullards whose parents got them outside enrichment to help accelerate them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love in how every other FCPS related thread, there are like dozens of comments about how kids are struggling since covid, but that conveniently gets forgotten when it comes to the TJ kids in their freshman and sophomore years who spent MS in the same covid environment.

But yeah, any struggle noted by the numbers MUST be those underprepared, spot stealing DEI tokens.

I also hear that race-blind process is a boon for DEI... LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

Wow, this is some of the most elitist drivel I’ve ever read. You acknowledge that kids could be brilliant but lack access to super accelerated math, but you still think those kids don’t deserve a chance at TJ admission. Incredible. It’s a freaking public school. You want to use your money & prestige to get (even more of a) advantage, go somewhere else.

There are lots of brilliant kids. I imagine out of the 70 or so kids that completed Algebra II before high school, there are a few brilliant ones as well. And now we have taken away their shot in favor of someone else because of things like experience factors that are completely out of either kids control.

There is not enough spots to go around, so you just want to give spots to these other kids and then act surprised when the kids that are now denied admission want their spots back?

This phrasing presumes that the spots previously "belonged" to those children as some sort of fait accompli. It betrays the mindset that those spots are "ours" and that they've been "taken away". Echoes of the Great Replacement Theory here. Ugly to say the least.

+100. “Want their spots back”?? Do you even hear yourself.

They were likely their spots. Kids who already completed Algebra II in 8th grade vs kids who were selected via quotas and experience factors resulting in Algebra only in massive numbers. The numbers bear out that there was the largest shift in those categories. So yeah without the admission changes, they were likely those kids spots. Completing Algebra II in 8th grade is an amazing accomplishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember TJ is a STEM oriented school. And while M is for Math, it also underpins the STE in a big way.

These results show that some of the best STEM applicants are no longer being accepted.

This may not have anything to do with admission changes. Remember we had a pandemic that greatly affected learning?

True and lower income schools typically don't have the same opportunities for acceleration, not to mention the outside enrichment that many post about like AoPS, RSM etc etc. This chart if anything indicates that selection is more equitable. A gifted kid from a low-income area may be a complete genius but lacked many of the same opportunities that parents at wealthy schools take for granted. To me this is a good sign that our tax dollars are going to support all gifted residents not just the scion of the wealthy.

If the desire for an elite STEM school is equity, then yes, it appears the new process has done that.

If the desire is to accept the demonstrably best STEM students, then no, the new system doesn’t do that. And arguing that kids with accelerated math are privileged isn’t what I’m interested in arguing. I’m just pointing out the fact that math underpins advanced STEM topics and that this cohort is not as advanced as years past.

And we aren’t talking about the same group of kids where it may be questionable to take 7th grade algebra even though they scored a 95 on the IAAT because sometime acceleration isn’t the best answer for kids come 10th grade. We are talking about kids that are perfectly suited for Calc in 10th and will continue to drive the cohort even deeper into complex math and science through 11th and 12th.

Those numbers were basically halved and replaced by kids that can never achieve that, based on timeline alone. There may be a genius in the bunch that is taking algebra in 8th grade in a lower SES school, but arguably there was probably a genius in the group of kids that had already completed Algebra II.

The desire was largely to create an environment where students at every school within the catchment area felt as though they had a realistic chance of getting into TJ. That's unquestionably a good thing and should increase application numbers in the long run, which would drive up the strength of the applicant pool.

The only way that the new process fails to drive up the application numbers is if large groups who are presently part of the demographic no longer choose to apply because of a perception of diminished prestige. Honestly, if that happens, good riddance because there were too many families for whom that was the prime motivator for TJ to begin with.

The problem is that those neglected segments of catchment area are currently not capable of producing students that can drive the cohort to the previous level of STEM achievement. Unless those schools start accelerating their students to the same level within the county. And if anyone has been paying attention, that is definitely not part of the plan for most title I/non-AAP ES/MS.

1/3 of the class is no longer eligible to take Electrodynamics, Quantum Physics and Optics. And in general the math accumen of the peer group has been lowered significantly.

These are simple facts, and if the desire is to put DEI before achievement, then this has succeeded.

Add to that, that many top performers, regardless of privilege, may not want to apply knowing the cohort is mathematically and by extension scientifically weaker.

TJ admissions grew complacent and didn't change for many years. Consequently, a huge TJ prep industry emerged that advertised prominently that they hired former admissions officials, essay readers, etc. who gave a big advantage to preppers. One back door they found was to accelerate in math. If you knew going into elementary school that your kid might apply to TJ then you accelerated in math on weekends and summers to give them an edge. TJ math teachers found that many of the "advanced" math freshmen were ill-prepared.

Kids develop at different rates. It requires a certain mathematical maturity to really understand algebra that some kids don't achieve until later.

Algebra is not rocket science. The fact that your kid takes it earlier does not make them more intelligent. Other kids will find the class easy and get a better foundation if they take it later,
particularly at TJ.

Do you have a source on this "TJ math teachers found?" I understand that kids in Algebra II in fairfax high in 9th grade may be in too deep, but these are not the same as kids at TJ, privilege or not.

The previous TJ students, whether they struggled or not, were on path to complete more and higher levels of math and science. The current group is also subject to your mathematical maturity claim. Maybe thats why they were in algebra in 8th instead of 7th or 6th.

The mathematical pathways are not as malleable as your definition of algebra success however, and 1/3 of the students are now not capable of achieving some of the higher tracks.

If DEI is the goal over academic achievement, just say that, but lets stop pretending that reduced Math acceleration is somehow beneficial for the number 1 STEM school in the united states.

DP. There's an insistence that these two goals are mutually exclusive. They're not, and the insistence that they are, no matter how florid your language, is racist. Full stop.

The goal of the admission changes, in part, was to increase underrepresented minority enrollment. These admissions changes accomplished that. Many understand that large URM population centers in fairfax are in pyramids with traditionally underrepresented MS for TJ admissions and often lack comparitively accelerated Math tracks. This results in admissions of students who are below the previous math rigor as highlighted regarding 8th grade algebra admits. The schools overall long term advanced achievement levels suffer as well. 1 to 2 levels of math behind previous years.

They, Diversity and Academic Achievement are not mutually exclusive as Im sure the new admits are very smart students. But one is being favored more than previously and the result is kids with lower performance indicators, and in many cases of no fault of their own. These are just stats, not racism.

That's fine. But when you insist on phrasing like "If DEI is the goal over academic achievement", you're placing the two in contradistinction to one another in order to push an agenda. No one made you do that.

No FCPS did that all by themselves. Things like experience factors and quota systems almost guarantee that. Dont be sensitive to the results of the stated objectives of FCPS and the TJ admissions process. This is exactly what many wanted. Those of us who disagree with the approach are literally defining it with the words of the people that supported the change and the statistics of the results. That doesnt mean the old method wasnt without flaws. We are discussing the new method.

These newly accepted students are great students in their own right, but they havent achieved the same level of academic success as previous cohorts. These are just raw facts and it seems to bother you.

Those facts aren't relevant to the conversation and only refer to one very narrow part of the total academic profile of these students. You're highlighting that one metric to push a narrative - that's what bothers me. It's the insistence that math advancement can be used as a proxy for merit.

Mathematical advancement and understanding is hugely important in STEM areas, from being wholly necessary for complex sciences, to helping create and enforce algorithmic thinking to be partnered with advanced computing subjects, to the students also going beyond the standard path that any AP center can offer and representing the school above and beyond what a standard FCPS school provides.

Its not that they arent capable of completing algebra II in 8th grade or even geometry, they just havent. And as such, are at a deficit. The reasons are immaterial really; its just a reality and a reality that was ushered in with the new admissions. Its a narrative but a relevant one.

No amount of brushing away the relevance of math levels will change how important they are. Maybe you dont think Math is hugely important to a school like TJ, but I think you would be in the minority and are being willfully obtuse to avoid acknowledging the importance of these fundamental facts.

Have a good evening.

Agree that's why it's critical they pick the brightest and best not just a few dullards whose parents got them outside enrichment to help accelerate them.

Well it looks like they didn’t get that either.