The golden handcuffs of biglaw

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

[Anonymous]

Golden handcuffs are 100% a budgeting problem. You can choose to spend all of your income and “need” the continued high income to support your lifestyle or you can choose to cut back and live on a smaller amount. It is entirely within your control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

You are absolutely wild. Nothing in my posting suggests this is my worldview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

Have you even been in a law firm since 2005? Women partners aren't pulling that anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.

These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.

Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.

Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?

You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.

People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.

I know lots of people in biglaw (as well as a lot of people who have moved in house or to other high level legal jobs but no longer in biglaw) and I think you are simplifying the argument. Certainly many biglaw attorneys, including partners, see their kids and have good relationships with them. But one of the points on this thread that is absolutely true is that in most cases, they have a SAHP or a spouse with a very flexible, not demanding job, who can facilitate that. I don't know many families where both parents have highly demanding, time consuming jobs, and of those I know, I do not think they have the kind of quality relationship with their kids that other families do. I'm sorry, but it's true.

It also very much matters how you structure your career over your kids lives. There are ways to stay in biglaw and still be very present at key times, and then dive back into work when your kids need you less. But again, this is best when facilitated by a spouse who can be present the entire time. But this is not possible at every firm, in every specialty, or for every individual attorney. Many of the stereotypes and assumptions about the impact of a biglaw career on family life are accurate. They don't come from nowhere.

You keep saying this, but you're the only person on this thread saying it. No, it's absolutely not a requisite for a sahw to be a successful biglaw partner. This may have been necessary for your family, or you chose this path because it worked for you. But it's really, really not the case anymore that you need a sahw or that you need to work a million hours and be absent from your kids.

Are there families with that set up (ie dad works a million hours, and has a sahw and kids he doens't see)? Sure. And are they likely to be the kind of partner who makes insane money and prestige - the kind that 80% of biglaw partners never achieve? Sure. Yes, being the $5m a year comp partner probably takes living and breathing your job and not seeing your kids and wife, and having a sahw. But 95% of partners will never achieve that. So many of them recognize this, never get caught up in the comp/materiality thing, and also learn to draw boundaries. Not all of those 95%, sure. But in DC, it's solidly 30% of partners who are drawing reasonable lines.

Also, you just don't need that sahw anyone. Again, i think for those families who chose it, maybe you do - either because your DH won't draw boundaries, or because you didn't enjoy working and this is the narrative you're sticking with. But i look around my team of partners sort of in the height of their careers (40s through early 60s) and i'm a woman with high earning DH, my primary partner's wife is in house counsel, the partner i work next frequently with his a wife who is patent counsel for a global company, the partner i work next with has a wife who has a bonkers intense job at state dept. The one i work with next after that - his wife is a former OT therapist who doesn't work. And the head of our group has a Sahw (he's 65 - so more old school). But yeah, going through the list of partners i most frequently work with, and only 2 of 7 have sahws. Times have changed.

I can't "keep saying" something I've said once. Multiple posters have made this point, you just assume it's one person because you are an incredibly competitive, myopic person (guess what, that personality is really common in biglaw, I wonder why) and you can't conceive of a world in which you are not correct or might not know everything.

Best of luck to you, I notice that you have time on this Monday morning to respond to every single post that disagrees with you even a little, that's interesting to me and I wonder what your billables look like and also what your actual job/life satisfaction is because that's not usually how very happy people with great work/life balance behave. Later!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

Have you even been in a law firm since 2005? Women partners aren't pulling that anymore.

Agree with this. I started in 2013 and I never encountered a female partner like this. Although I will admit that one with a SAHD got drunk and warned me not to let my husband become a SAHP because he would never step up in the role like the average SAHM does! I thought it was funny and sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

I work in a different field, but one in which there are “partners,” and I’ve just about had it with the Puerto Rican woman partner whom I take orders from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

Have you even been in a law firm since 2005? Women partners aren't pulling that anymore.

Agree with this. I started in 2013 and I never encountered a female partner like this. Although I will admit that one with a SAHD got drunk and warned me not to let my husband become a SAHP because he would never step up in the role like the average SAHM does! I thought it was funny and sad.

Lucky, because in the early 2000s this was normal behavior from female partners. They treated female associates horribly. Anyway, happy that it changed for young female lawyers. Have the men improved also? They used to be equally horrible, but in a different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens when you work in biglaw, make a good salary, and truly hate your job? To the point of waking up feeling nauseated? Working all the time and wondering - for what?? But kids, mortgage, tuition, on and on - require that income?

HOW

OP if you really want an exit strategy, post your budget, savings, HHI and split, etc. in the Money forum. If you want to whine, well, people have been pretty unanimous with you: you should have seen this coming, you put the handcuffs on yourself, you made terrible choices.

- former BL lawyer who used the money to pay off all date and create a nest egg before leaving on my own terms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

Have you even been in a law firm since 2005? Women partners aren't pulling that anymore.

Agree with this. I started in 2013 and I never encountered a female partner like this. Although I will admit that one with a SAHD got drunk and warned me not to let my husband become a SAHP because he would never step up in the role like the average SAHM does! I thought it was funny and sad.

Lucky, because in the early 2000s this was normal behavior from female partners. They treated female associates horribly. Anyway, happy that it changed for young female lawyers. Have the men improved also? They used to be equally horrible, but in a different way.

I think post #metoo yes, they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

You are absolutely wild. Nothing in my posting suggests this is my worldview.

I never suggested that it was. More of a general observation. Sorry for giving the wrong impression.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.

We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.

In this scenario do you have a job?

SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.

While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.

Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.

He’s a partner at another firm.

That doesn't answer the question.

He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.

ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.

I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.

ok, so you're not frustrated with your colleagues, you're not frustrating with their wives, and you're not frustrated with your husband. you're just generally frustrated, but not with anyone in particular. got it. it was your word, btw, not mine.

I was frustrated that it was difficult to run our lives with two big jobs. But the post was not about my frustration. It was about the comment that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuff stress.

ok, fair enough. just do the world a favor and don't take out your frustrations on women associates. women partners are the worst sometimes. their attitude if often "i did it the hard way, so why shouldn't you?"

Have you even been in a law firm since 2005? Women partners aren't pulling that anymore.

Yes, I was in a law firm much more recently than 2005. And yes, some of them still were. And when I say some I’m being kind.