Are door wreaths religious?

[Anonymous]

So do we avoid fireworks because Chinese origin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”

you sound judgmental AF.

This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.

Well, who forced her to do that? Her family? Don’t lay that on the rest of us. And as we all know, schools don’t do that anymore. It’s the 21st century last I checked.

To be “averse to Christianity” is bigoted.

I'm not that poster, but I am also Jewish and grew up in a Christian place and was forced to participate. It was just the norm in the rural area where I was. The school had manger scenes and said prayers at assemblies, and there was required "religious instruction" after school, that actually started before school ended. The school even paid for a bus to take the kids home afterward. You could skip it, technically, but the bullying would have been bad. But unlike the PP, this didn't make me "Christmas averse." On the contrary, Christmas feels like "my" holiday. Our family celebrated all of the usual holidays that apparently some people consider Christian, because that was what you did in our town, and I enjoyed it. I still love Christmas and even Easter. I understood that we were not Christian, but we made the distinction between the religious part of the holiday and the fun parts. In fact, even the priest in town made the distinction, often admonishing people for doing gifts, candy, even Christmas trees, which he said were not really true Christian traditions and had nothing to do with Christ. So it makes me angry to see someone tell me that this is not my holiday because I'm not a Christian - I can assure that it is mine too. I can celebrate it just fine without doing or thinking anything especially Christian. So while I understand the PP's aversion, it also ticks me off that he or she seems to be criticizing my own participation.

I'm from the rural midwest. It's a heavily German area and, until WW1, my grandmother's schooling was taught in German. Christmas trees were not allowed in the Lutheran church until the 1970s because they were seen as pagan. Trees were placed outside the church but couldn't be brought into any of the buildings.

Your one Lutheran church in the Midwest doesn’t matter. Martin Luther himself repurposed the pagan tradition of lit up trees for Lutheranism. My family has been Lutheran for centuries and always had trees.

There is no historical basis behind Luther bringing Christmas trees into the church. I've from a heavily German area of Ohio and our church was one of the first Lutheran churches in the area to allow Christmas trees in the church. There's also a big difference between having a tree in a church and having one in the home. Just goes to show you how pagan some people remained despite their 'centuries' of being Lutheran. Or, ignorant of the pagan origins of their symbols. FWIW - the town I grew up in was 'dry' until the 21st century.

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/german/articles/yule.html

[Anonymous]

Just some more support that the wreath isn’t originally Christian (the link has more support on the bottom):

https://www.santasquarters.com/origins-christmas-wreaths/

And I think I might be the the third or fourth atheist here: but I go full on lights, greenery, and tree this time of year. Why? Because it is harmless and feels great.

Happy Saturnalia y’all!

[Anonymous]

I think that it depends on the wreath. If it just looks wintery, it’s fine. People put up wreaths all year round.

[Anonymous]

No. I use wreaths all year round for all the different seasons. There is no religious meaning, it's just decorative to keep our house from looking so blah.

[Anonymous]

Jewish family here. No way would we hang a wreath. No other family embers would either.

To those of you talking about the winter solstice and all that, its kind of like saying Santa Clause is secular and not religious. He might be, but Jewish families still have no Santas!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jewish family here. No way would we hang a wreath. No other family embers would either.

To those of you talking about the winter solstice and all that, its kind of like saying Santa Clause is secular and not religious. He might be, but Jewish families still have no Santas!

Yes but you have your own cultural tradition for this time of year. You can celebrate Hanukkah in the way that makes sense to you and feels correct fir your religious beliefs, and it offers you a holiday involving lights and food traditions and sometimes gifts to brighten the dark, cold time of year. You don’t “need” a holiday tree of Santa, you have other things. Also, you can celebrate Hanukkah regardless of how devout you are— I know lots of Jews who are not particularly religious, don’t have a synagogue, don’t fast on high holy days, but still do a menorah and celebrate Hanukkah, and will celebrate the fun parts of Passover and other Jewish holidays, because they are culturally Jewish and grew up with these traditions and want to pass them down, which I think is great.

Likewise, I am not religious but I celebrate a secular version of Christmas. I would prefer not to call it Christmas and have in fact taught my kid about winter solstice and the cultural traditions we engage in that are part of it— hanging evergreen decorations, putting up lights or lighting candles, playing music and gathering with friends and family. That’s MY cultural heritage, it’s what I did growing up and it’s also what generations of my family have done this time of year going back to before Christ.

The problem is that Christians have so thoroughly appropriated these traditions for themselves that now people think if you hang a wreath, exchange gifts, put up a tree, or do this silly Santa tradition with your kids (a tradition that is more secular than Christian and that Christians have also sought to appropriate as much as possible by making arguments about how it mimics the wise men bringing gifts to Jesus but it’s really a folk story), then you either must be Christian or you’re appropriating Christian traditions. They were non-Christian first! They serve a valuable cultural purpose in brightening the darkest part of the year. But as you can see from this thread, some Christian’s think they belong to Christianity and Jesus.

Imagine if, even though you were raised Jewish and had learned all the traditions around Jewish holidays and wanted to pass them onto your Jewish children, you were told you were not allowed to because you weren’t religious at all. It’s is silly, right? Those are your traditions. Well Santa and a tree and lights are mine. It’s a needed respite this time of year. It’s easy for you to scoff at it and claim we are celebrating a religious holiday because you get to celebrate your own holiday whether you are religious or not, because you are Jewish and have kept your cultural connection to these traditions. Well that’s what I’m doing too. I’d prefer to call it Yule and often do but again, it’s so co-opted that I have to refer to it as Christmas sometimes because otherwise it would sound weird to most people (“do you open gifts around a tree on Dec. 25th snd give your kids stockings ‘from Santa’ and you claim this isn’t Christmas?”).

Congrats on successfully keeping your cultural traditions distinct from Christmas. I wish it was that easy for me.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the above poster from another perspective.

My parents were immigrants from India in the 60s. They wholly embraced America as their new home. Christmas is everywhere for weeks, months actually. They embraced it as part of the American culture. Because how could they assimilate otherwise? We already stuck out like a sore thumb. We had a tree, my dad would dress up as Santa, we exchanged gifts. Honestly, the part of the country we were in, I would have been a pariah at school if I didn’t partake in the festivities.

I was never confused that we aren’t Christian. I was taught that many paths lead to God and this was the path for the followers of Jesus. (Yes, people tried to convert me all the time, didn’t live in this area at the time. Really, that just left me more convicted in my faith.)

I understand that it’s different for those of Jewish faith or Jewish origin. But they have a holiday during this time too. So it makes sense. My holidays are before and after Christmas, but not during the last two weeks of December, when most people are out of school or when it might be a slow time at work.

My relationship to this time of year is the memories I created with my family. It’s my holiday too and I celebrate how I have with my family growing up. Completely secular, lots of fun, and time spent with my own family now. My kids aren’t left out, they know Christians believe their God was born around this time (though that’s debatable), they know the origins are from pagan Europe. Also not a problem for us since our religion is pagan.

Life is short. Celebrate. I love all the holidays in this country, none have to do with my ancestral heritage, they’re part of my American heritage. Be merry!

[Anonymous]

Definitely Christmassy, though not religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the above poster from another perspective.

My parents were immigrants from India in the 60s. They wholly embraced America as their new home. Christmas is everywhere for weeks, months actually. They embraced it as part of the American culture. Because how could they assimilate otherwise? We already stuck out like a sore thumb. We had a tree, my dad would dress up as Santa, we exchanged gifts. Honestly, the part of the country we were in, I would have been a pariah at school if I didn’t partake in the festivities.

I was never confused that we aren’t Christian. I was taught that many paths lead to God and this was the path for the followers of Jesus. (Yes, people tried to convert me all the time, didn’t live in this area at the time. Really, that just left me more convicted in my faith.)

I understand that it’s different for those of Jewish faith or Jewish origin. But they have a holiday during this time too. So it makes sense. My holidays are before and after Christmas, but not during the last two weeks of December, when most people are out of school or when it might be a slow time at work.

My relationship to this time of year is the memories I created with my family. It’s my holiday too and I celebrate how I have with my family growing up. Completely secular, lots of fun, and time spent with my own family now. My kids aren’t left out, they know Christians believe their God was born around this time (though that’s debatable), they know the origins are from pagan Europe. Also not a problem for us since our religion is pagan.

Life is short. Celebrate. I love all the holidays in this country, none have to do with my ancestral heritage, they’re part of my American heritage. Be merry!

I appreciate this perspective. You family chose to assimilate. As a Jewish person I was taught very early on to NOT assimilate. To hold on to own own traditions and not water it down and not take on cultural traditions that are not our own. Which is why Santa and trees did not become a part of my life, and I resent it when people tell me that I should just accept these symbols.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the above poster from another perspective.

My parents were immigrants from India in the 60s. They wholly embraced America as their new home. Christmas is everywhere for weeks, months actually. They embraced it as part of the American culture. Because how could they assimilate otherwise? We already stuck out like a sore thumb. We had a tree, my dad would dress up as Santa, we exchanged gifts. Honestly, the part of the country we were in, I would have been a pariah at school if I didn’t partake in the festivities.

I was never confused that we aren’t Christian. I was taught that many paths lead to God and this was the path for the followers of Jesus. (Yes, people tried to convert me all the time, didn’t live in this area at the time. Really, that just left me more convicted in my faith.)

I understand that it’s different for those of Jewish faith or Jewish origin. But they have a holiday during this time too. So it makes sense. My holidays are before and after Christmas, but not during the last two weeks of December, when most people are out of school or when it might be a slow time at work.

My relationship to this time of year is the memories I created with my family. It’s my holiday too and I celebrate how I have with my family growing up. Completely secular, lots of fun, and time spent with my own family now. My kids aren’t left out, they know Christians believe their God was born around this time (though that’s debatable), they know the origins are from pagan Europe. Also not a problem for us since our religion is pagan.

Life is short. Celebrate. I love all the holidays in this country, none have to do with my ancestral heritage, they’re part of my American heritage. Be merry!

I love this! Thank you so much for sharing. Assimilation is the only way to keep a country cohesive and bring immigrants into the fold. Holiday festivities are definitely part of American cultural and you don't have to observe to join in the merriment. To me it seems insane to protest the holidays just because you don't celebrate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”

you sound judgmental AF.

This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.

Well, who forced her to do that? Her family? Don’t lay that on the rest of us. And as we all know, schools don’t do that anymore. It’s the 21st century last I checked.

To be “averse to Christianity” is bigoted.

I'm not that poster, but I am also Jewish and grew up in a Christian place and was forced to participate. It was just the norm in the rural area where I was. The school had manger scenes and said prayers at assemblies, and there was required "religious instruction" after school, that actually started before school ended. The school even paid for a bus to take the kids home afterward. You could skip it, technically, but the bullying would have been bad. But unlike the PP, this didn't make me "Christmas averse." On the contrary, Christmas feels like "my" holiday. Our family celebrated all of the usual holidays that apparently some people consider Christian, because that was what you did in our town, and I enjoyed it. I still love Christmas and even Easter. I understood that we were not Christian, but we made the distinction between the religious part of the holiday and the fun parts. In fact, even the priest in town made the distinction, often admonishing people for doing gifts, candy, even Christmas trees, which he said were not really true Christian traditions and had nothing to do with Christ. So it makes me angry to see someone tell me that this is not my holiday because I'm not a Christian - I can assure that it is mine too. I can celebrate it just fine without doing or thinking anything especially Christian. So while I understand the PP's aversion, it also ticks me off that he or she seems to be criticizing my own participation.

I'm from the rural midwest. It's a heavily German area and, until WW1, my grandmother's schooling was taught in German. Christmas trees were not allowed in the Lutheran church until the 1970s because they were seen as pagan. Trees were placed outside the church but couldn't be brought into any of the buildings.

Your one Lutheran church in the Midwest doesn’t matter. Martin Luther himself repurposed the pagan tradition of lit up trees for Lutheranism. My family has been Lutheran for centuries and always had trees.

There is no historical basis behind Luther bringing Christmas trees into the church. I've from a heavily German area of Ohio and our church was one of the first Lutheran churches in the area to allow Christmas trees in the church. There's also a big difference between having a tree in a church and having one in the home. Just goes to show you how pagan some people remained despite their 'centuries' of being Lutheran. Or, ignorant of the pagan origins of their symbols. FWIW - the town I grew up in was 'dry' until the 21st century.

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/german/articles/yule.html

https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas-trees

[Anonymous]

Yes, any decorations between Thanksgiving and New Year's automatically marks you as a far right wing religious zealot, Bible thumper, wife barefoot and pregnant with your 9th child, and your children will attend Bob Jones University.

[Anonymous]

I love this! Thank you so much for sharing. Assimilation is the only way to keep a country cohesive and bring immigrants into the fold. Holiday festivities are definitely part of American cultural and you don't have to observe to join in the merriment. To me it seems insane to protest the holidays just because you don't celebrate.

DO YOU HAVE ANY FREAKIN IDEA ABOUT HOW PROBLEMATIC THIS IS? Just for a second imagine you are an indigenous person and read this. You disgust me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol “averse to Christmas?”

you sound judgmental AF.

This is so mean. I grew up in a religious Jewish home and my mother was extremely "averse to Christmas" and drew offense at anything related to Christmas. I was not because she was judgmental. It was because she was forced to practice Christian customs as a child even though she was Jewish. This includes saying daily prayers in public school. There is a long-standing tradition of expecting non-Christians to celebrate the birth of someone else's Lord and Savior and it's offensive. A Christmas-style wreath would never have been displayed in her home.

But OP bought a wreath and is yet saying "averse to Christmas" which makes no sense.