Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?

[Anonymous]

So now you want teachers to have even less education. Get an AA degree like the other trades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now you want teachers to have even less education. Get an AA degree like the other trades?

I don’t think that’s a bad idea, at least for the younger ages. Were you being sarcastic?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

This is OP. Not a troll. This reply is what I'm talking about. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. But parents and administrators don't and won't acknowledge it and just tell them they're whining and demand more and more.

So, we shouldn't be surprised when good teachers leave the field and you are left with under qualified teachers teaching your children and your children get a weaker education.

Please read the post at 11:46 - do you disagree?

The teachers I know IRL seem to have little perspective on jobs that are not teaching, which is frustrating. Back in August 2020, when our school district’s plan for virtual was revealed, I told a good friend, who is a teacher, how unrealistic it was and that parents wouldn’t be able to support their kids adequately. And she told me that parents’ employers would just have to understand and give them flexibility. Say what? That’s… not how it worked.

I recall a DCUM thread not too long ago about how many hours professionals *actually* work in a week. Tons of people responded: 15 hours, 2-3 “real” work hours a day, 30 hours on a busy week, etc. Many admitted to doing no real work at their WFH jobs.

I work 65+ as a teacher. I do 30+ hours a week of presentations. I am responsible for the progress of 150 students.

You’re right. I don’t think many professions work as hard as I do. I‘m sure some do, perhaps some of you on this thread. I’m confident most don’t.

Am I complaining? No. But I’m not going to accept nonsense about how easy my job is.

8-4 M-F is no where close to 65 hours a week. Drive by most schools at 4 and the parking lots are empty.

I’m actually a midlife career changer considering TFA and elementary or middle school teaching. I’ve begun second guessing if I want to go this path, because I drive by an elementary school on my way home from my hospice care job and every weeknight excepting Fridays there are at least two dozen cars in the lot and the school lit up inside at 6:30pm when I drive by. I know they start the day around 7-7:30, so that’s an 11 hour day not counting work brought home.

I already spent a couple of decades working 70-90 hours weeks routinely as I put myself through academic training and as an attorney working in legal aid and later the criminal justice system. Weeks when I had trial prep I was easily in 100 hours territory. It’s not a good quality of life to work that many hours and my health suffered a great deal.

I need a couple more years in a government or nonprofit job to get the rest of my student loans forgiven. I am considering applying for a job as a school custodian as that seems like the only guarantee of working reasonable hours and still qualifying for PSLF.

Why do you keep choosing low paying jobs with long hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

This is OP. Not a troll. This reply is what I'm talking about. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. But parents and administrators don't and won't acknowledge it and just tell them they're whining and demand more and more.

So, we shouldn't be surprised when good teachers leave the field and you are left with under qualified teachers teaching your children and your children get a weaker education.

Please read the post at 11:46 - do you disagree?

The teachers I know IRL seem to have little perspective on jobs that are not teaching, which is frustrating. Back in August 2020, when our school district’s plan for virtual was revealed, I told a good friend, who is a teacher, how unrealistic it was and that parents wouldn’t be able to support their kids adequately. And she told me that parents’ employers would just have to understand and give them flexibility. Say what? That’s… not how it worked.

I recall a DCUM thread not too long ago about how many hours professionals *actually* work in a week. Tons of people responded: 15 hours, 2-3 “real” work hours a day, 30 hours on a busy week, etc. Many admitted to doing no real work at their WFH jobs.

I work 65+ as a teacher. I do 30+ hours a week of presentations. I am responsible for the progress of 150 students.

You’re right. I don’t think many professions work as hard as I do. I‘m sure some do, perhaps some of you on this thread. I’m confident most don’t.

Am I complaining? No. But I’m not going to accept nonsense about how easy my job is.

8-4 M-F is no where close to 65 hours a week. Drive by most schools at 4 and the parking lots are empty.

I’m actually a midlife career changer considering TFA and elementary or middle school teaching. I’ve begun second guessing if I want to go this path, because I drive by an elementary school on my way home from my hospice care job and every weeknight excepting Fridays there are at least two dozen cars in the lot and the school lit up inside at 6:30pm when I drive by. I know they start the day around 7-7:30, so that’s an 11 hour day not counting work brought home.

I already spent a couple of decades working 70-90 hours weeks routinely as I put myself through academic training and as an attorney working in legal aid and later the criminal justice system. Weeks when I had trial prep I was easily in 100 hours territory. It’s not a good quality of life to work that many hours and my health suffered a great deal.

I need a couple more years in a government or nonprofit job to get the rest of my student loans forgiven. I am considering applying for a job as a school custodian as that seems like the only guarantee of working reasonable hours and still qualifying for PSLF.

Why do you keep choosing low paying jobs with long hours?

DP.
Sometimes it isn’t about the money. I posted earlier in this thread about the ridiculous hours I have to work to get the minimum done for my classroom. I have never once argued for more pay. I want more reasonable hours. I’ll never break 100K in my district, even with my advanced degrees. Fine. Just please reevaluate my workload so I have more than 4 hours of unscheduled time a week to plan, grade, update reports, respond to emails, attend meetings, cover for sick teachers, etc. I am “on stage” in my high school classroom 34 hours a week. (Plus, being “on” and in front of 150 people for so many hours is emotionally and physically exhausting.) I need more time “off stage” to do the other half of my job. Again: this isn’t about pay.

[Anonymous]

Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I want a job where I’m overworked but am compensated for it. My friends who aren’t teachers work a lot but make over $150k per year. I make $75k. Maybe I’d make that much if I charged for my OT. The job cannot be done with one 45 minute prep period per day. Most days I get zero planning due to meetings and other BS.

Teachers seem to have gross misunderstandings about pay in comparable professions. Most people with degrees in the arts, humanities, and social sciences aren't making $150k a year. Not even those with masters degrees. Add in the health/retirement benefits, and the ability to earn more money over the summer (or save money on child care), and teachers get compensated pretty well.

But I acknowledge the hours are long. We do need to find a way to give teachers more prep time.

This is a weird qualification. First, STEM teachers exist and don't have a completely different salary scale. Second, teaching in most states requires a professional degree or certification in *teaching*. I feel like you're trying to say teachers are only comparable to people with arts and humanities degrees, despite there not being a direct relationship, because you think both have lower earning power. Or maybe because you think teaching is an impractical career choice, which...well, isn't that exactly the problem?

Well, first of all, I think STEM and SpEd should be on different scales. It’s the arts, humanities, and social science teachers stopping that.

Second, we’re talking about the type of profession, not just the degree. Teaching, even STEM teaching, is much more closely linked to the arts, humanities, and social sciences than jobs in math, science, engineering, and medicine.

Third, often the degrees aren't even the same. And even when they are, someone going into math education is going to be taking a different set of classes than someone planning to go into an actuarial, engineering, analysis, or finance career.

Should an AP English, AP Euro History, or AP Macroeconomics teacher be paid on a lower scale than SpEd or STEM? They have considerable content knowledge that others do not have. They can also have 150 students in their advanced courses, many of whom also have 504s or IEPs that require the same support/documentation/adherence that a SpEd teacher gives to their students..

See where this leads? How do you determine who deserves higher pay?

Same way as every other job: based on the relative difficulty of finding qualified staff.

Clearly you're an English teacher and not an Econ teacher.

Pay depends on more than supply demand. Greater factors include specialization and rigor/difficulty of course study. The sciences and mathematics are well regarded as more rigorous and challenging subjects than English and social sciences. Consequently, no one expects someone with a Ph.D in History to earn more than someone with a B.E. in engineering. In fact, the former can expect around $30k starting while the latter can easily earn a six figure salary. Teachers are paid appropriately based on the relatively ease of rigor of an education degree.

If teachers are overworked, perhaps the solution is to lower degree requirements (to a B.A. degree) enabling lower teacher pay in favor of increasing teacher staff. If every classroom K-12 had an assistant or two teachers, workloads would decrease, students would get more attention and feedback, and parents would be happy. Everybody would win.

That’s what is required now (a BA or BS).

So many ideas when they dont even know the basic facts of teacher educational requirements. Forkin A.

Many school systems still require a Master’s earned either prior to hiring or within their first few years of teaching. If some systems have recently changed degree requirements, a corresponding drop in pay for new hires should follow suit.

I’m in Fairfax, which does not require a MA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

I'm not so sure that "everyone else" is as overworked as teachers. I've had a few jobs, and nothing was as bad as teaching. I worked 60-70 hours a week as a teacher, and it still wasn't enough for the administration. They were constantly trying to make more work for us. At other jobs, you might work like that for a while, but then you move and don't work quite as much. Or at least you get paid a lot more. But in teaching, it's year after year after year - you can't move up, and your only raise is an annual COLA, if you're lucky. It's not just the hours, but also the constant nature of it, with no end or change in sight.

+1 I'm an ex-teacher and I'm not sure either. I taught high school, where nobody brought on extra work by over-decorating their rooms. There was only so much planning and grading that you could say teachers "brought on themselves."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

m

America’s a face-time culture. Some privates do manage to stay out of this and do have planning periods

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

After they didn'r have to teach for two years, what do you expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

Teachers in the USA get paid over 3-5 times what teachers in CA or Europe get.

You'd expect them to teach more and whine less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

Teachers in the USA get paid over 3-5 times what teachers in CA or Europe get.

You'd expect them to teach more and whine less.

Nope. Sorry. I’m the PP and I’m not buying this.

I don’t know what you do for a living, but I suspect you would question me if I asked you to deliver 30+ hours a week of presentations, do pre and post work 20+ hours a week, and still attend meetings, respond to emails, cover for your colleagues every day, and document every little thing that you do. You will also be held directly responsible for 150 others. If they fail, so did you.

I have closely followed this thread. You call it “whining.” I call it “something you just don’t care to hear.” That doesn’t change the reality of teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

Teachers in the USA get paid over 3-5 times what teachers in CA or Europe get.

You'd expect them to teach more and whine less.

Wrong.

Teachers in many parts of Germany, for example, hold the same respect as doctors. They are paid well and have a much better work/life balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

Teachers in the USA get paid over 3-5 times what teachers in CA or Europe get.

You'd expect them to teach more and whine less.

Wrong.

Teachers in many parts of Germany, for example, hold the same respect as doctors. They are paid well and have a much better work/life balance.

Nope. US pays more than most of Europe and Canada. US ranks in the top 5 for teacher pay.

https://www.businessinsider.in/slideshows/miscellaneous/the-best-and-worst-countries-to-be-a-teacher-based-on-salary/slidelist/63885194.cms#slideid=63885198

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

Teachers in the USA get paid over 3-5 times what teachers in CA or Europe get.

You'd expect them to teach more and whine less.

Wrong.

Teachers in many parts of Germany, for example, hold the same respect as doctors. They are paid well and have a much better work/life balance.

Nope. US pays more than most of Europe and Canada. US ranks in the top 5 for teacher pay.

https://www.businessinsider.in/slideshows/miscellaneous/the-best-and-worst-countries-to-be-a-teacher-based-on-salary/slidelist/63885194.cms#slideid=63885198

Okay? Your own source cites Germany as having higher pay, which was my example.

Also, many of these countries provide more PLANNING TIME. I’ll take that over money.