I am confused between Stuart Hobson Middle School vs. Deal Middle School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

In a nutshell, we're never going to have better public schools unless more DC parents challenge policies limiting achievement.

ding ding ding

My younger self used to wonder why so many parents sent their children to private schools. I get it now.

My older self wishes parent could be excised from school communities entirely. The kids are awesome. Parents not so much

This makes no sense. Home environment is integrally connected to school success. Why would you separate it. And most parents are pretty great. They care about their individual child which makes perfect sense. I teach at a DCPS school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools that, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

+100. We need to advocate for more accountability within DCPS.
Unfortunately if you push for more, folks love to label you a racist because that is easier than acknowledge the system is not working.
But in reality, DCPS is not doing a good job for most kids - poor and affluent. The kids at Anacostia HS are being let down by DCPS just as much as the kids at Wilson. And don’t get me started on what a fiasco UDC is. I feel so bad for low income kids who are stuck living in DC vs. MD and VA

[Anonymous]

We also need a lot more accountability, flexibility and willingness to serve top performers within the DC public charter sphere.

No DC public school family should have to sign their kid up to take an AP test at a private school because their charter refuses to give it to them. This problem crops up again and again, even when the AP test taker in question is a student at DCI, BASIS or Latin 1. I know this because I work in college admissions counseling locally. Complain and you're called entitled, so few do. Resourceful families sign up to take APs that their school hasn't signed off on elsewhere. This is even starting to happen with IB Diploma exams, now that IB Geneva has begun to offer virtual instruction in a small number of subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the “woke” mostly genuinely believe that kids benefit from racial and socioeconomic integration and want better schools for everyone. its complex.

Too easy.

Your articulated goals are not defined in a such a manner as to be universally understood. For instance, what does "integration" mean? Does it mean that a school accurately reflects the make-up of the IB population? In which case some schools would be virtually all white with almost no economically disadvantaged. If not, then there's a disconnect between the IB preference system and the goals you so cavalierly throw around. Which begs the question, why are you so certain those are the goals if the people who set the system up did so in a manner that doesn't result in those goals being achieved?

What are "better schools"? Does that mean the bottom is brought up? The top are advanced even more so year after year? Both? Is a one point increase for a kid 2 grade levels below more valuable than a one point test increase for the kid already two grade levels above? Half as valuable? What's the proper ratio? Do we invest in more advanced classes or more remedial Special Ed resources? That is one of the main issues facing public education. Resources are finite; how many and in what percentage should they be brought to the fore for the most at risk vs those desiring advanced classes?

A necessary first step to solving for any issues is to first (1) agree on meaning of defined terms and (2) identify what 'success' looks like. The "woke" to whom I made (admittedly derisive) reference like to throw around platitudes and bumper sticker phrases and try and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with their (ill defined) policy goals as racist or "Karens". They seek "equity" but they don't define it, and often times their definition is horribly regressive and equates to lowering standards and/or assuming economically disadvantaged and POC can't meet a higher standard.

These are all fair questions and I'll tell you where I (and I think many other DCPS parents) draw the line. We were deciding whether to move from the Hill to NWDC many many years ago. I went to a Wilson open house. They were very clear that their student body was large enough and academically strong enough that they could offer AP classes in every single subject (which is far more than many many small public HSs across the country will offer). But they had to dedicate their resources to their under-performing students. That meant very large class sizes for AP, with a much lower student-teacher ratio for the less advanced classes. Basically the message was, we welcome the academically advanced students and you can count on us to provide the coursework and the teachers. But don't expect small classes, hand-holding, or excellent college counseling. While I might prefer a school that could provide more of that, it was a trade-off I was willing to make in order to stay in DC, where our family was (and is) very happy. And I appreciated that the Wilson leadership (at least at the time, I don't know if this has changed), was up-front about all of it. We decided to move to NW for the Wilson option. There was no way in the world we would even consider sending our kids to Eastern, however, which didn't even offer AP or true honors classes in the first place (and whose description of "curriculum" on their website was rather confusing and concerning).

The transparency you experienced at Wilson is what is so seriously lacking today EOTP. No one really knows whether there are AP classes if they are "AP for all (read: not AP), actual tracking, super secret tracking, etc. I am certain DCPS behaves like this to avoid having to own any firm policy decisions and to be all things to all people, but it is hurting them more than they realize. I often make fun of people on DCUM who complain that Charles Allen or others don't "just fix" public education. But one thing I do think they all fail at is having public hearings where the Ferrebbe (sp?) asked direct questions about offerings in specific MS and HS and forced to be transparent.

One of the things that annoys me about the BASIS bashing on DCUM is that the school is THE most transparent school in DC. They tell you exactly what they are and are not and the tell you straight up that they don't want your suggestions for how to change. You can disagree with the approach, but you can't whine and complain when it turns out to be exactly what they told you it would be. See the person complaining that BASIS wouldn't change their curriculum for her Chinese nephew as an example.

You're painting with much too broad a brush. The BASIS admin team is young, inexperienced and composed of moving parts. In a school that's had 8 heads in 12 years and is essentially run from Arizona, you can't always sure who you're talking to, or who's going to follow up. The goal posts can move. When we were at BASIS, Chinese-speaking parents pushed to organize advanced Chinese middle school classes. This happened at least twice. One HOS would work with the parents, the next wouldn't necessarily. One school year, we cycled through 3 heads. Transparency wasn't the hallmark of that particular year. Maybe BASIS' leadership has stabilized now, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

You seem weirdly focused on age and not experience and qualifications. Also seems weird start your post with a statement of fact that the team "is young, inexperienced..." and then admit you don't know anything about the current team, and yet you still "wouldn't hold your breath". Here are some facts.

Current HOS has 2 Master's degrees in education and a J.D. He's in his 3rd year as HOS and has been at BASIS since 2014 in a series of more senior roles. Your indictment based on age alone would be no more valid than someone saying all long time DCPS admins are lazy re-treads. Some of them are. And many of them are committed admins who have been fighting DC Central to help kids for years.

The issue with "who you are talking to" is true of any school (company or business) anytime there are changes in leadership. Odd that you think this applies only to BASIS. Ask anyone who has ever had an IP or 504 in any school what happens when the admin or SPED group changes; you fight all over again. That's not a BASIS thing. Several DCPS schools have changed principals mid-year too. It sucks. But not a BASIS thing.

Yes, BASIS curriculum is handed down from on high in AZ. If you didn't know that when you entered then you weren't paying attention. That centralized and unwavering curriculum and rigor is the reason many BASIS families like the school; it is unencumbered by the constantly lowered standards of most of the DC schools (AP for everyone?).

We get it. You love BASIS and the Blocks with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. They can do no wrong in your books. Glory hallelujah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools that, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

+100. We need to advocate for more accountability within DCPS.
Unfortunately if you push for more, folks love to label you a racist because that is easier than acknowledge the system is not working.
But in reality, DCPS is not doing a good job for most kids - poor and affluent. The kids at Anacostia HS are being let down by DCPS just as much as the kids at Wilson. And don’t get me started on what a fiasco UDC is. I feel so bad for low income kids who are stuck living in DC vs. MD and VA

No, they aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the “woke” mostly genuinely believe that kids benefit from racial and socioeconomic integration and want better schools for everyone. its complex.

Too easy.

Your articulated goals are not defined in a such a manner as to be universally understood. For instance, what does "integration" mean? Does it mean that a school accurately reflects the make-up of the IB population? In which case some schools would be virtually all white with almost no economically disadvantaged. If not, then there's a disconnect between the IB preference system and the goals you so cavalierly throw around. Which begs the question, why are you so certain those are the goals if the people who set the system up did so in a manner that doesn't result in those goals being achieved?

What are "better schools"? Does that mean the bottom is brought up? The top are advanced even more so year after year? Both? Is a one point increase for a kid 2 grade levels below more valuable than a one point test increase for the kid already two grade levels above? Half as valuable? What's the proper ratio? Do we invest in more advanced classes or more remedial Special Ed resources? That is one of the main issues facing public education. Resources are finite; how many and in what percentage should they be brought to the fore for the most at risk vs those desiring advanced classes?

A necessary first step to solving for any issues is to first (1) agree on meaning of defined terms and (2) identify what 'success' looks like. The "woke" to whom I made (admittedly derisive) reference like to throw around platitudes and bumper sticker phrases and try and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with their (ill defined) policy goals as racist or "Karens". They seek "equity" but they don't define it, and often times their definition is horribly regressive and equates to lowering standards and/or assuming economically disadvantaged and POC can't meet a higher standard.

These are all fair questions and I'll tell you where I (and I think many other DCPS parents) draw the line. We were deciding whether to move from the Hill to NWDC many many years ago. I went to a Wilson open house. They were very clear that their student body was large enough and academically strong enough that they could offer AP classes in every single subject (which is far more than many many small public HSs across the country will offer). But they had to dedicate their resources to their under-performing students. That meant very large class sizes for AP, with a much lower student-teacher ratio for the less advanced classes. Basically the message was, we welcome the academically advanced students and you can count on us to provide the coursework and the teachers. But don't expect small classes, hand-holding, or excellent college counseling. While I might prefer a school that could provide more of that, it was a trade-off I was willing to make in order to stay in DC, where our family was (and is) very happy. And I appreciated that the Wilson leadership (at least at the time, I don't know if this has changed), was up-front about all of it. We decided to move to NW for the Wilson option. There was no way in the world we would even consider sending our kids to Eastern, however, which didn't even offer AP or true honors classes in the first place (and whose description of "curriculum" on their website was rather confusing and concerning).

The transparency you experienced at Wilson is what is so seriously lacking today EOTP. No one really knows whether there are AP classes if they are "AP for all (read: not AP), actual tracking, super secret tracking, etc. I am certain DCPS behaves like this to avoid having to own any firm policy decisions and to be all things to all people, but it is hurting them more than they realize. I often make fun of people on DCUM who complain that Charles Allen or others don't "just fix" public education. But one thing I do think they all fail at is having public hearings where the Ferrebbe (sp?) asked direct questions about offerings in specific MS and HS and forced to be transparent.

One of the things that annoys me about the BASIS bashing on DCUM is that the school is THE most transparent school in DC. They tell you exactly what they are and are not and the tell you straight up that they don't want your suggestions for how to change. You can disagree with the approach, but you can't whine and complain when it turns out to be exactly what they told you it would be. See the person complaining that BASIS wouldn't change their curriculum for her Chinese nephew as an example.

You're painting with much too broad a brush. The BASIS admin team is young, inexperienced and composed of moving parts. In a school that's had 8 heads in 12 years and is essentially run from Arizona, you can't always sure who you're talking to, or who's going to follow up. The goal posts can move. When we were at BASIS, Chinese-speaking parents pushed to organize advanced Chinese middle school classes. This happened at least twice. One HOS would work with the parents, the next wouldn't necessarily. One school year, we cycled through 3 heads. Transparency wasn't the hallmark of that particular year. Maybe BASIS' leadership has stabilized now, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

You seem weirdly focused on age and not experience and qualifications. Also seems weird start your post with a statement of fact that the team "is young, inexperienced..." and then admit you don't know anything about the current team, and yet you still "wouldn't hold your breath". Here are some facts.

Current HOS has 2 Master's degrees in education and a J.D. He's in his 3rd year as HOS and has been at BASIS since 2014 in a series of more senior roles. Your indictment based on age alone would be no more valid than someone saying all long time DCPS admins are lazy re-treads. Some of them are. And many of them are committed admins who have been fighting DC Central to help kids for years.

The issue with "who you are talking to" is true of any school (company or business) anytime there are changes in leadership. Odd that you think this applies only to BASIS. Ask anyone who has ever had an IP or 504 in any school what happens when the admin or SPED group changes; you fight all over again. That's not a BASIS thing. Several DCPS schools have changed principals mid-year too. It sucks. But not a BASIS thing.

Yes, BASIS curriculum is handed down from on high in AZ. If you didn't know that when you entered then you weren't paying attention. That centralized and unwavering curriculum and rigor is the reason many BASIS families like the school; it is unencumbered by the constantly lowered standards of most of the DC schools (AP for everyone?).

We get it. You love BASIS and the Blocks with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. They can do no wrong in your books. Glory hallelujah.

That feels a bit like an attempt to dodge having been called out for making things up about the age, experience and tenure of the HOS. Or did you include it and I just didn't see?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

In a nutshell, we're never going to have better public schools unless more DC parents challenge policies limiting achievement.

ding ding ding

My younger self used to wonder why so many parents sent their children to private schools. I get it now.

My older self wishes parent could be excised from school communities entirely. The kids are awesome. Parents not so much

Tell me you are UMC and in one of the better DC schools without telling me.

A lot of schools in DC (not ones you've ever set foot in or even driven by) work very hard to engage families in order to give their students the best possible chance of success.

[Anonymous]

+100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools that, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

+100. We need to advocate for more accountability within DCPS.
Unfortunately if you push for more, folks love to label you a racist because that is easier than acknowledge the system is not working.
But in reality, DCPS is not doing a good job for most kids - poor and affluent. The kids at Anacostia HS are being let down by DCPS just as much as the kids at Wilson. And don’t get me started on what a fiasco UDC is. I feel so bad for low income kids who are stuck living in DC vs. MD and VA

No, they aren't.

What about that statement do you disagree with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

In a nutshell, we're never going to have better public schools unless more DC parents challenge policies limiting achievement.

ding ding ding

My younger self used to wonder why so many parents sent their children to private schools. I get it now.

My older self wishes parent could be excised from school communities entirely. The kids are awesome. Parents not so much

Tell me you are UMC and in one of the better DC schools without telling me.

A lot of schools in DC (not ones you've ever set foot in or even driven by) work very hard to engage families in order to give their students the best possible chance of success.

Not talking about directly engaging with school where appropriate (knowing teachers and administrators and engaging when there's good reason). I'm talking about the OTHER collective parent BS.

You don't know me. There's a ton of parent nonsense even at schools in higher needs communities. Few of those schools chime into DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools that, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

+100. We need to advocate for more accountability within DCPS.
Unfortunately if you push for more, folks love to label you a racist because that is easier than acknowledge the system is not working.
But in reality, DCPS is not doing a good job for most kids - poor and affluent. The kids at Anacostia HS are being let down by DCPS just as much as the kids at Wilson. And don’t get me started on what a fiasco UDC is. I feel so bad for low income kids who are stuck living in DC vs. MD and VA

No, they aren't.

m

Really? Please enlighten us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Push back, folks. Don’t let BASIS admins shortchange you when you ask for a reasonable option that’s widely available in well-run suburban public schools, particularly if granting your request that will cost the franchise precisely nothing. Don’t let Deal admins do the same. These are your tax dollars at work.

In a nutshell, we're never going to have better public schools unless more DC parents challenge policies limiting achievement.

ding ding ding

My younger self used to wonder why so many parents sent their children to private schools. I get it now.

My older self wishes parent could be excised from school communities entirely. The kids are awesome. Parents not so much

Tell me you are UMC and in one of the better DC schools without telling me.

A lot of schools in DC (not ones you've ever set foot in or even driven by) work very hard to engage families in order to give their students the best possible chance of success.

Not talking about directly engaging with school where appropriate (knowing teachers and administrators and engaging when there's good reason). I'm talking about the OTHER collective parent BS.

You don't know me. There's a ton of parent nonsense even at schools in higher needs communities. Few of those schools chime into DCUM.

Well played. You clearly have a view into and heartbeat of the Ward 8 schools. [snickers]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eastern has IB 9-12. I wouldn't think twice about enrolling my kids in an IB program, even if it isn't top notch. IB system has requirements which must be met from schools, teachers and students. Go take advice from parents whose kids graduated from there with an IB diploma, not random internet posters.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eastern has IB 9-12. I wouldn't think twice about enrolling my kids in an IB program, even if it isn't top notch. IB system has requirements which must be met from schools, teachers and students. Go take advice from parents whose kids graduated from there with an IB diploma, not random internet posters.

+1

Do you know how many kids are in the IB and what the average score -or range- is?

[Anonymous]

A dozen students generally earn the Diploma at Eastern annually, with at least four times that many taking some IB classes.

Their pass range has been firmly in the 20s since the program's inception more than a decade ago (IBD pass range 24-45 points).

That's the best Eastern seems to be able to do with most in-boundary families bailing for BASIS, the Latins, the burbs, privates in the upper elementary grades and almost no academic tracking outside math in the several feeder DCPS middle schools.