Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

It's easy to know if something was fishy. If the parents of kids selected for Magnet are all "friends and family", then everyone can complain like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar" when his car was towed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty easy. Just look at Takoma Park placed data this year:

Asian 20.8%
Black 20.8%
Hispanic 16.0%
White 37.6%

Is this how the MAP math 85%+ scorers are distributed downcounty?

If this is the case, there is no achievement gap in math.

The state used to publish PARCC scores in five levels distributed by race. If you compare that distribution with this distribution, you will see that this is a heavily manipulated outcome.

Good points. One thing to keep in mind with the downcounty MS magnets is that from my experience very few kids from ‘W’ cluster schools elect to attend, at least I know this for Eastern. Maybe TPMS is different for Asian students who want to proceed to Blair? But in our case, coming out of CES, every parent from a ‘W’ cluster is except WJ would not consider the magnet or actually declined a seat when selected. Maybe you miss some computer science, but you still take AIM at your home school and MCPS has been increasing the number of “advanced” courses offered at home schools.

I don't think this parent actually has a student at Eastern because if you did you'd know the buses from BCC, Whitman and Churchill area are completely full and there are many kids going to Eastern not just TPMS and Blair. If you look at the directory, a very large number are Potomac or Bethesda addresses.

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

There is no way places like Takoma or SS could possibly have more students than the W's!!!!!

People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty easy. Just look at Takoma Park placed data this year:

Asian 20.8%
Black 20.8%
Hispanic 16.0%
White 37.6%

Is this how the MAP math 85%+ scorers are distributed downcounty?

If this is the case, there is no achievement gap in math.

The state used to publish PARCC scores in five levels distributed by race. If you compare that distribution with this distribution, you will see that this is a heavily manipulated outcome.

Good points. One thing to keep in mind with the downcounty MS magnets is that from my experience very few kids from ‘W’ cluster schools elect to attend, at least I know this for Eastern. Maybe TPMS is different for Asian students who want to proceed to Blair? But in our case, coming out of CES, every parent from a ‘W’ cluster is except WJ would not consider the magnet or actually declined a seat when selected. Maybe you miss some computer science, but you still take AIM at your home school and MCPS has been increasing the number of “advanced” courses offered at home schools.

I don't think this parent actually has a student at Eastern because if you did you'd know the buses from BCC, Whitman and Churchill area are completely full and there are many kids going to Eastern not just TPMS and Blair. If you look at the directory, a very large number are Potomac or Bethesda addresses.

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

There is no way places like Takoma or SS could possibly have more students than the W's!!!!!

People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I think plenty of people in the western part of the county opt in, like we did, but something like 25 seats are set aside for the Takoma cluster. I have no problem with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I don't live in Takoma Park, in fact I don't live anywhere near Takoma Park, but I'm pretty sure you spend way more time thinking about what people in Takoma Park may or may not think about you, than people in Takoma Park spend thinking about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty easy. Just look at Takoma Park placed data this year:

Asian 20.8%
Black 20.8%
Hispanic 16.0%
White 37.6%

Is this how the MAP math 85%+ scorers are distributed downcounty?

If this is the case, there is no achievement gap in math.

The state used to publish PARCC scores in five levels distributed by race. If you compare that distribution with this distribution, you will see that this is a heavily manipulated outcome.

Good points. One thing to keep in mind with the downcounty MS magnets is that from my experience very few kids from ‘W’ cluster schools elect to attend, at least I know this for Eastern. Maybe TPMS is different for Asian students who want to proceed to Blair? But in our case, coming out of CES, every parent from a ‘W’ cluster is except WJ would not consider the magnet or actually declined a seat when selected. Maybe you miss some computer science, but you still take AIM at your home school and MCPS has been increasing the number of “advanced” courses offered at home schools.

I don't think this parent actually has a student at Eastern because if you did you'd know the buses from BCC, Whitman and Churchill area are completely full and there are many kids going to Eastern not just TPMS and Blair. If you look at the directory, a very large number are Potomac or Bethesda addresses.

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

I can name off the top of my head 20 kids in the Chevy Chase, Bethesda area not from WJ. I don't know what CES that PP's child came from but I definitely know of students who came from two of the W CESes. Are there more than 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All-
Read this PP's explanation. It's an excellent and really shows that either MCPS had its thumb on the scales as someone put it so well or that the whole premise that there is an achievement gap is wrong. You can't have both and have numbers come out like that.

The achievement gap is real. Look at Math 5 Performance Level 5 for various races:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Assessments/MathPerformance/2MA/5/12/3/1/15/XXXX/2019

I think that's the point. That the achievement gap is real therefore there's no way it was a completely random unweighted lottery. There are other factors like the high rate of FARMS admissions that show it's mathematically not random.

I think you're a bit confused. The pool from which students were selected came from a pool that was determined using local norms. Weighting wasn't really necessary. As an earlier poster tried to explain, there's really no mystery here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

A grateful public thanks you for the data!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

A grateful public thanks you for the data!

You are welcome. NB that the first zip is meant to be 20901. Takoma Park.

[Anonymous]

It is easy to find out. Just ask MCPS to publish the % of race in the selection pool who meet the criteria, not the students considered. If the % of race in the pool has to match the % wins the lottery. If not then it is another story.

Anonymous wrote:It looks like they greatly expanded the "considered" pool for the lottery in order to get their desired demographics. For the CESes they considered 11,446 students. Isn't that almost every child in that grade? The same goes for middle schools where the "considered" pool was almost double what it was in previous years. Does anyone have an explanation for how this happened and why this was done in such secrecy?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/schoolchoice/210818%20CES%20Secondary%20App%20Prog%20Admission%20Results.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty easy. Just look at Takoma Park placed data this year:

Asian 20.8%
Black 20.8%
Hispanic 16.0%
White 37.6%

Is this how the MAP math 85%+ scorers are distributed downcounty?

If this is the case, there is no achievement gap in math.

The state used to publish PARCC scores in five levels distributed by race. If you compare that distribution with this distribution, you will see that this is a heavily manipulated outcome.

Good points. One thing to keep in mind with the downcounty MS magnets is that from my experience very few kids from ‘W’ cluster schools elect to attend, at least I know this for Eastern. Maybe TPMS is different for Asian students who want to proceed to Blair? But in our case, coming out of CES, every parent from a ‘W’ cluster is except WJ would not consider the magnet or actually declined a seat when selected. Maybe you miss some computer science, but you still take AIM at your home school and MCPS has been increasing the number of “advanced” courses offered at home schools.

I don't think this parent actually has a student at Eastern because if you did you'd know the buses from BCC, Whitman and Churchill area are completely full and there are many kids going to Eastern not just TPMS and Blair. If you look at the directory, a very large number are Potomac or Bethesda addresses.

Because I apparently have infinite time on a Friday afternoon, here is the breakdown of the top 5 zip codes for every child in the directory:

20910 - 33
20910 - 19
20902 - 17
20854 - 14
20895 - 13

So, the first three zip codes are Silver Spring and Takoma Park. The next is Potomac and the last is Kensington. That's great, and I have a lot of admiration for the kids willing to ride the bus all the way from Potomac. But it's actually pretty balanced and certainly the numbers above *feel* true to me as a two-time Eastern magnet parent who knows other parents and whose kids hang out with other Eastern kids. A lot of them are thankfully right in the neighborhood.

I can name off the top of my head 20 kids in the Chevy Chase, Bethesda area not from WJ. I don't know what CES that PP's child came from but I definitely know of students who came from two of the W CESes. Are there more than 2?

No. There is only the CES at CCES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I don't live in Takoma Park, in fact I don't live anywhere near Takoma Park, but I'm pretty sure you spend way more time thinking about what people in Takoma Park may or may not think about you, than people in Takoma Park spend thinking about you.

Why should they be setting aside seats for in-boundary. They get their own in-boundary CES and then set asides for MS? I guess they admit that they cannot compete.

[Anonymous]

People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I mean, the unincorporated area known as Silver Spring makes up a huge part of Montgomery County, and an even larger part of the territory that feeds into the downcounty magnets. It should not surprise anyone that kids from Silver Spring are over-represented in the downcounty magnets, because kids from Silver Spring are over-represented on the territory we're talking about.

I have a child at Eastern, and I feel lucky that we live close enough that it's not a huge imposition. I'm not sure I'd have supported my child taking the spot if it had meant a 45 minute bus ride. But it is also a delapidated building, a program that has traditionally demanded a ton from the kids in terms of homework, and a subject matter that not every single kid is going to think is fascinating.

Basically, I find it really probable that many Western county kids were admitted to Eastern and declined. I hope they are very happy in their home schools (and I suspect they are). But the most sneering that I see on this board is actually from West county parents who claim there wouldn't even BE a magnet program if their own kids weren't bussed over to this side of the county to fill it. It turns out that's not actually true. A lot of kids come from nearby, some kids come from a touch further away, and then some really die-hard Humanities/media lovers endure a long bus ride for something they truly love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I don't live in Takoma Park, in fact I don't live anywhere near Takoma Park, but I'm pretty sure you spend way more time thinking about what people in Takoma Park may or may not think about you, than people in Takoma Park spend thinking about you.

Why should they be setting aside seats for in-boundary. They get their own in-boundary CES and then set asides for MS? I guess they admit that they cannot compete.

RMIB also has a local set-aside, for what it is worth. To be honest, I think every magnet program should have a local set-aside. TPMS should be the norm, not the exception. Hosting a magnet program isn't an unmitigated good thing for a school's student body. It increases bus traffic, decreases community spirit, and can at times suck resources and remove opportunities from home school kids. It makes sense to "repay" that with 20 spots or so for talented kids who live in-bounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I don't live in Takoma Park, in fact I don't live anywhere near Takoma Park, but I'm pretty sure you spend way more time thinking about what people in Takoma Park may or may not think about you, than people in Takoma Park spend thinking about you.

Why should they be setting aside seats for in-boundary. They get their own in-boundary CES and then set asides for MS? I guess they admit that they cannot compete.

RMIB also has a local set-aside, for what it is worth. To be honest, I think every magnet program should have a local set-aside. TPMS should be the norm, not the exception. Hosting a magnet program isn't an unmitigated good thing for a school's student body. It increases bus traffic, decreases community spirit, and can at times suck resources and remove opportunities from home school kids. It makes sense to "repay" that with 20 spots or so for talented kids who live in-bounds.

I don't disagree. In fact, I think there need to be more opportunities for enriched studies since there are many kids who could benefit as the 85% lottery is demonstrating. The sad part is that many of the best and brightest aren't selected by these lotteries since they're basically random.

All that being said, RMIB would be equivalent to Blair SMCS not TPMS and Blair does not have a set aside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People in the west of the county opt out due to the bus ride and the fact that they won’t have a friend group there. It’s honestly a bit tiresome how much of this county is geared toward benefiting TPSS while they spend their time sneering at everyone else.

I don't live in Takoma Park, in fact I don't live anywhere near Takoma Park, but I'm pretty sure you spend way more time thinking about what people in Takoma Park may or may not think about you, than people in Takoma Park spend thinking about you.

Why should they be setting aside seats for in-boundary. They get their own in-boundary CES and then set asides for MS? I guess they admit that they cannot compete.

No because it makes programs like this possible and doing so would allow them to expand access to more students who would benefit.