King Abdullah Academy Closing: FCPS Buy for HS?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don't see the issue with drawing the new HS boundaries in a way that is fair as far as economically balanced. The new school Should have similar Farms rates to nearby schools like South Lakes, Westfield and Herndon.

But not Chantilly and Oakton, which would be 15-20%.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don't see the issue with drawing the new HS boundaries in a way that is fair as far as economically balanced. The new school Should have similar Farms rates to nearby schools like South Lakes, Westfield and Herndon.


It’s not like it’s a big stretch here since they are likely starting with Floris, Coates, and McNair. The only way you start with these three schools and get down to a really low FARMS rate is to add three more low-FARMS feeders, and it’s not clear there’s enough space for that.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't see the issue with drawing the new HS boundaries in a way that is fair as far as economically balanced. The new school Should have similar Farms rates to nearby schools like South Lakes, Westfield and Herndon.


It’s not like it’s a big stretch here since they are likely starting with Floris, Coates, and McNair. The only way you start with these three schools and get down to a really low FARMS rate is to add three more low-FARMS feeders, and it’s not clear there’s enough space for that.


+1 I don’t see how people are already grousing about the FARMS rates when it seems pretty clear which schools would be assigned to KAA. Floris (13% FARMS, 16% ELL), Coates (53% FARMS, 52% ELL), and McNair Upper (29% FARMS, 28% ELL). Even adding Oak Hill which is single digit % in both FARMS and ELL doesn’t exactly make the school the next McLean. You end up with a HS with demographics similar to FCPS as a whole, without gerrymandering or obvious “balancing,” with nice, compact boundaries so kids aren’t having hugely long bus rides.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't see the issue with drawing the new HS boundaries in a way that is fair as far as economically balanced. The new school Should have similar Farms rates to nearby schools like South Lakes, Westfield and Herndon.


It’s not like it’s a big stretch here since they are likely starting with Floris, Coates, and McNair. The only way you start with these three schools and get down to a really low FARMS rate is to add three more low-FARMS feeders, and it’s not clear there’s enough space for that.


+1 I don’t see how people are already grousing about the FARMS rates when it seems pretty clear which schools would be assigned to KAA. Floris (13% FARMS, 16% ELL), Coates (53% FARMS, 52% ELL), and McNair Upper (29% FARMS, 28% ELL). Even adding Oak Hill which is single digit % in both FARMS and ELL doesn’t exactly make the school the next McLean. You end up with a HS with demographics similar to FCPS as a whole, without gerrymandering or obvious “balancing,” with nice, compact boundaries so kids aren’t having hugely long bus rides.


Yes. This is likely. FWIW, there is a small portion of Coates with very high FARMS which is in the Herndon High boundary and high ELL.
Anonymous
FWIW. Oak Hill, most of Crossfield, and a portion of Floris are in Sully district. Pretty sure the rest is Hunter Mill.
Carson is in Sully.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I don't see the issue with drawing the new HS boundaries in a way that is fair as far as economically balanced. The new school Should have similar Farms rates to nearby schools like South Lakes, Westfield and Herndon.


It’s not like it’s a big stretch here since they are likely starting with Floris, Coates, and McNair. The only way you start with these three schools and get down to a really low FARMS rate is to add three more low-FARMS feeders, and it’s not clear there’s enough space for that.


+1 I don’t see how people are already grousing about the FARMS rates when it seems pretty clear which schools would be assigned to KAA. Floris (13% FARMS, 16% ELL), Coates (53% FARMS, 52% ELL), and McNair Upper (29% FARMS, 28% ELL). Even adding Oak Hill which is single digit % in both FARMS and ELL doesn’t exactly make the school the next McLean. You end up with a HS with demographics similar to FCPS as a whole, without gerrymandering or obvious “balancing,” with nice, compact boundaries so kids aren’t having hugely long bus rides.


Yes. This is likely. FWIW, there is a small portion of Coates with very high FARMS which is in the Herndon High boundary and high ELL.


The consultants are proposing to move that piece to Herndon ES as part of an effort to address overcrowding at Coates, so it probably moves and then stays at HMS/HHS.
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Anonymous wrote:I’m thrilled about this. We are in Fox Mill/Carson and the transition from Carson to SLHS where our neighborhood kids are a minority is awful. I am hoping very much that our neighborhood along with RCMS area will go to this new school.


It’s going to very interesting to see what they do if they make this a general HS. Fox Mill is a big neighborhood. They may not want to pull it out of SLHS. There is also the reducing transportation time vs. reducing split feeder issue. I don’t see how they solve both because the new HS won’t have room for everyone. Look at
who people think should attend this new school… Fox Mill, Emerald Chase, Franklin Farm, Chantilly Highlands, who else? There’s isn’t room for everyone so someone is either keeping their long commute to Oakton or staying at Westfield or South Lakes


Fox Mill used to go to Oakton and South Lakes was just fine without it.


Actually it wasn’t; hence, the large boundary change in 2008.

And then South Lakes got expanded after that outside the renovation queue.

Fox Mill isn’t that far from South Lakes and should stay there. If anything they should look to adjust the boundaries so it goes to Hughes as well.

The last thing anyone should be implying is that we need to build an addition to KAA before the sale has even closed.


Why? The Western HS was proposed to relieve SLHS, Oakton, Westfield, and Chantilly. Basically Caron is going to feed the new school instead of three or four way split.


South Lakes isn't overcrowded like Chantilly, no one travels as far to South Lakes as Crossfield travels to Oakton, and capacity at the new school may be limited. So, nice try (again), but I wouldn't assume that everyone currently zoned to Carson will feed to this school. Boundaries may change, and they may conclude they still need some split feeders, even if they can reduce the three-way split at Carson.


LOL, I'm not trying anything difficult. Read past CIPs to understand why the new high school was proposed. Check how close Carson MS is to the new HS.

Don't overcomplicate it.



It's complicated by the fact that Carson has a large capacity for a MS and the new school would appear to have a small capacity for a HS.

Also, reducing student commutes to Oakton may take priority over sending everyone now at Carson to the new HS.

Sorry if reality bites.


No worries, it won’t bite.

Carson MS will be a feeder school for the new HS, just like Herndon MS to Herndon HS, Hughes MS to South Lakes HS, Johnson MS to Fairfax HS, and Cooper MS to Langley HS.

If you lack common sense, just wait and see.


Or it could remain a split feeder like it has been, and like Franklin, Thoreau, Holmes, Poe, and Kilmer have been.

You're the one making assumptions that at this point are premature.


Nice spin.

You are the one making a claim that Fox Mill should stay in SLHS. I am just pointing out that’s very unlikely. Hopefully, you are not too dumb to understand this.

How close are the middle schools you listed to the nearest high school? Do you know the distance between Carson Middle School and the new high school?

It is 0.5 miles.



Given that South Lakes isn't overcrowded like Chantilly, and the distance from Fox Mill to South Lakes is much shorter than the distance from Crossfield to Oakton, it's quite likely. Sorry.


Here you go.

So the bottomline is you just don’t want Fox Mill to be assigned to the new school.

Wait and see.


It's not that I don't want Fox Mill to be assigned to the new school. It's that making sure Oak Hill goes there to address overcrowding at Chantilly and Crossfield goes there to shorten the long commute to Oakton should be higher priorities.

You, on the other hand, are trying to get assurances now that everyone currently at Carson will go there. That is simply premature.

Again, I'm sorry you dislike South Lakes so much.


Don't be ridiculous.

When did I say I dislike SLHS? I personally like the IB program at SLHS.

But, it makes far more sense for current Carson kids to attend the new school than your absurd idea.

Look at the map. Why should Oak Hill and Crossfield kids go to the new school while Fox Mill kids stay at SLHS? Do you really think that makes sense?

Stop being sorry and get some common sense.


It clearly makes sense to send Oak Hill and Crossfield kids there and if necessary keep Fox Mill kids at South Lakes since the priorities should be reducing overcrowding at Chantilly and reducing long commutes to Oakton.

It appears you didn't bother to listen to what the School Board members voting in favor of this purchase had to say. That's what they were focusing on, not changing the SLHS boundaries. It's sad we've invested so much in South Lakes over the years only for people to try and avoid it when it's nearby and not overcrowded.



Oak Hill doesn’t even go to Carson, and the school board is already working on reducing the overload at Chantilly.

Crossfield is closer to SLHS and farther from the new high school compared to Fox Mill. If anything, they should send Crossfield to SLHS instead of Fox Mill. Isn’t that obvious?

You lose all credibility by insisting Oak Hill and Crossfield kids go to the new school while Fox Mill kids stay at SLHS. I don’t see it happening.





You sound like you don’t live here or don’t understand that Crossfield is much further away from Oakton than Fox Mill is from South Lakes. Why would they disrupt two entire communities to make this change instead of one, dummy?


DP. I DO live in the area and am familiar with all these neighborhoods and all these schools. Sounds like you are not.

1. None of us know how this would end up, but several posters are leaving out some details:
McNair and Coates will likely attend this school
2. All of Floris will likely attend this school. Remember McNair, Coates, and Floris send kids to Westfield. Westfield is isolated from the community neighborhoods by commercial and industrial areas--along with Dulles Airport. The commute is also not an easy one during rush hour. 28 is a nightmare.
3. Oak Hill (which, by the way is the closest elementary school and neighborhood to the Carson/KAA site) currently attends Chantilly. THRU plans to split this neighborhood and send a good portion of it to Oakton. The Oak Hill community is not happy about this. It splits the neighborhood and sends a good portion of it thirty minutes away--going from a short commute to a thirty minute commtute. KAA is basically across the street.
4. Discovery Square--which attends Floris--is also right by the KAA site.
5. PP--who claims that Crossfield is further away than Fox Mill--is stretching the issue because most of Crossfield's attendance zone is just as close to KAA as Fox Mill. If she really were familiar with the area, she would realize that Franklin Farm on the other side of 286 would likely go down Franklin Farm Rd to Centreville. They could turn on Wall or McLearen to get there. They would be driving through neighborhoods that likely will also attend the KAA site.

Again, none of us know how this will play out. I could see Emerald Chase once again going to Oak Hill and Carson and KAA, but I don't know. And, neither do any of us.

I don't see Fox Mill being at the top of the list. But, I may be wrong. South Lakes does not appear to need relief at this time and Fox Mill is equidistant to South Lakes and Carson--though some neighborhoods are closer to Carson. Neither is far.

If I were the School Board, my first goal would be to eliminate the long bus ride to Oakton and the bus ride/isolation to Westfield. Overcrowding at Chantilly has repeatedly been given a priority and I THINK it is very likely Oak Hill will attend KAA.

This creates a contiguous boundary. It eliminates split neighborhoods and split feeder elementary schools.



Fox Mill to new HS: 3.3 miles
Crossfield to new HS: 5.3 miles


AGAIN - not talking about the actual schools, talking about where kids live now compared to current high school.


Of course. In general Fox Mill kids live closer than Crossfield kids. Look at the map. The traffic is also easy for Fox Mill kids thanks to Pinecrest rd.


It is a wash. Some Fox Mill live closer than some Crossfield kids and some Crossfield kids live closer than some Fox Mill kids.
The question is: will they move Crossfield from Oakton? If so, Crossfield goes to KAA. That seems likely to me, but I don't live in Crossfield boundary or Fox Mill. And, I am not on the School Board--which is what counts.


It's not really a wash.

Yes, some Crossfield kids live close to KAA, but many, if not most, Crossfield kids live east of Lawyers Road. If I remember correctly, none of the Fox Mill boundary is east of Lawyers Road, meaning they don’t have to cross Lawyers or 286.

But you’re right. We are not the decision-makers. Meren may let Fox Mill stay in South Lakes. Some parents at Crossfield may lobby hard against the boundary change. Fox Mill probably has a slightly better chance.



Um, no, you clearly have no affiliation with Crossfield. Most Crossfield kids live in Franklin Farm or off of West Ox between West Ox and Fairfax County Parkway. Only the kids in Folkstone and Fox Mill Woods and one or two random streets off of Fox Mill live on the other side of West Ox/Lawyers.


There are still significant number of kids east of Lawyers (around 25-33%)

As long as we're just making up numbers then when I eyeball the map it looks like the homes to the west of Lawyers are much more densely packed and have more buildable land due to Little Difficult Run Stream Valley Park being on the east side. I'd put it at more like 20% east of Lawyers.

As for which one would go to the new school (if any), that would probably be very political between school board members and decided without the public knowing the real reason. Could be neither right away if the new school isn't ready to accept the full capacity of kids in time for the 2026 school year.


There is no concrete stat but look at the number of homes sold for the last year or two on Redfin. Looks to me it’s more than 20%. For those kids the commute won’t be that easy (although much easier than going to Oakton). I won’t call it a wash.

I do agree with you that the decison will be a political one.
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Anonymous wrote:I’m thrilled about this. We are in Fox Mill/Carson and the transition from Carson to SLHS where our neighborhood kids are a minority is awful. I am hoping very much that our neighborhood along with RCMS area will go to this new school.


It’s going to very interesting to see what they do if they make this a general HS. Fox Mill is a big neighborhood. They may not want to pull it out of SLHS. There is also the reducing transportation time vs. reducing split feeder issue. I don’t see how they solve both because the new HS won’t have room for everyone. Look at
who people think should attend this new school… Fox Mill, Emerald Chase, Franklin Farm, Chantilly Highlands, who else? There’s isn’t room for everyone so someone is either keeping their long commute to Oakton or staying at Westfield or South Lakes


Fox Mill used to go to Oakton and South Lakes was just fine without it.


Actually it wasn’t; hence, the large boundary change in 2008.

And then South Lakes got expanded after that outside the renovation queue.

Fox Mill isn’t that far from South Lakes and should stay there. If anything they should look to adjust the boundaries so it goes to Hughes as well.

The last thing anyone should be implying is that we need to build an addition to KAA before the sale has even closed.


Why? The Western HS was proposed to relieve SLHS, Oakton, Westfield, and Chantilly. Basically Caron is going to feed the new school instead of three or four way split.


South Lakes isn't overcrowded like Chantilly, no one travels as far to South Lakes as Crossfield travels to Oakton, and capacity at the new school may be limited. So, nice try (again), but I wouldn't assume that everyone currently zoned to Carson will feed to this school. Boundaries may change, and they may conclude they still need some split feeders, even if they can reduce the three-way split at Carson.


LOL, I'm not trying anything difficult. Read past CIPs to understand why the new high school was proposed. Check how close Carson MS is to the new HS.

Don't overcomplicate it.



It's complicated by the fact that Carson has a large capacity for a MS and the new school would appear to have a small capacity for a HS.

Also, reducing student commutes to Oakton may take priority over sending everyone now at Carson to the new HS.

Sorry if reality bites.


No worries, it won’t bite.

Carson MS will be a feeder school for the new HS, just like Herndon MS to Herndon HS, Hughes MS to South Lakes HS, Johnson MS to Fairfax HS, and Cooper MS to Langley HS.

If you lack common sense, just wait and see.


Or it could remain a split feeder like it has been, and like Franklin, Thoreau, Holmes, Poe, and Kilmer have been.

You're the one making assumptions that at this point are premature.


Nice spin.

You are the one making a claim that Fox Mill should stay in SLHS. I am just pointing out that’s very unlikely. Hopefully, you are not too dumb to understand this.

How close are the middle schools you listed to the nearest high school? Do you know the distance between Carson Middle School and the new high school?

It is 0.5 miles.



Given that South Lakes isn't overcrowded like Chantilly, and the distance from Fox Mill to South Lakes is much shorter than the distance from Crossfield to Oakton, it's quite likely. Sorry.


Here you go.

So the bottomline is you just don’t want Fox Mill to be assigned to the new school.

Wait and see.


It's not that I don't want Fox Mill to be assigned to the new school. It's that making sure Oak Hill goes there to address overcrowding at Chantilly and Crossfield goes there to shorten the long commute to Oakton should be higher priorities.

You, on the other hand, are trying to get assurances now that everyone currently at Carson will go there. That is simply premature.

Again, I'm sorry you dislike South Lakes so much.


Don't be ridiculous.

When did I say I dislike SLHS? I personally like the IB program at SLHS.

But, it makes far more sense for current Carson kids to attend the new school than your absurd idea.

Look at the map. Why should Oak Hill and Crossfield kids go to the new school while Fox Mill kids stay at SLHS? Do you really think that makes sense?

Stop being sorry and get some common sense.


It clearly makes sense to send Oak Hill and Crossfield kids there and if necessary keep Fox Mill kids at South Lakes since the priorities should be reducing overcrowding at Chantilly and reducing long commutes to Oakton.

It appears you didn't bother to listen to what the School Board members voting in favor of this purchase had to say. That's what they were focusing on, not changing the SLHS boundaries. It's sad we've invested so much in South Lakes over the years only for people to try and avoid it when it's nearby and not overcrowded.



Oak Hill doesn’t even go to Carson, and the school board is already working on reducing the overload at Chantilly.

Crossfield is closer to SLHS and farther from the new high school compared to Fox Mill. If anything, they should send Crossfield to SLHS instead of Fox Mill. Isn’t that obvious?

You lose all credibility by insisting Oak Hill and Crossfield kids go to the new school while Fox Mill kids stay at SLHS. I don’t see it happening.





You sound like you don’t live here or don’t understand that Crossfield is much further away from Oakton than Fox Mill is from South Lakes. Why would they disrupt two entire communities to make this change instead of one, dummy?


DP. I DO live in the area and am familiar with all these neighborhoods and all these schools. Sounds like you are not.

1. None of us know how this would end up, but several posters are leaving out some details:
McNair and Coates will likely attend this school
2. All of Floris will likely attend this school. Remember McNair, Coates, and Floris send kids to Westfield. Westfield is isolated from the community neighborhoods by commercial and industrial areas--along with Dulles Airport. The commute is also not an easy one during rush hour. 28 is a nightmare.
3. Oak Hill (which, by the way is the closest elementary school and neighborhood to the Carson/KAA site) currently attends Chantilly. THRU plans to split this neighborhood and send a good portion of it to Oakton. The Oak Hill community is not happy about this. It splits the neighborhood and sends a good portion of it thirty minutes away--going from a short commute to a thirty minute commtute. KAA is basically across the street.
4. Discovery Square--which attends Floris--is also right by the KAA site.
5. PP--who claims that Crossfield is further away than Fox Mill--is stretching the issue because most of Crossfield's attendance zone is just as close to KAA as Fox Mill. If she really were familiar with the area, she would realize that Franklin Farm on the other side of 286 would likely go down Franklin Farm Rd to Centreville. They could turn on Wall or McLearen to get there. They would be driving through neighborhoods that likely will also attend the KAA site.

Again, none of us know how this will play out. I could see Emerald Chase once again going to Oak Hill and Carson and KAA, but I don't know. And, neither do any of us.

I don't see Fox Mill being at the top of the list. But, I may be wrong. South Lakes does not appear to need relief at this time and Fox Mill is equidistant to South Lakes and Carson--though some neighborhoods are closer to Carson. Neither is far.

If I were the School Board, my first goal would be to eliminate the long bus ride to Oakton and the bus ride/isolation to Westfield. Overcrowding at Chantilly has repeatedly been given a priority and I THINK it is very likely Oak Hill will attend KAA.

This creates a contiguous boundary. It eliminates split neighborhoods and split feeder elementary schools.



Fox Mill to new HS: 3.3 miles
Crossfield to new HS: 5.3 miles


AGAIN - not talking about the actual schools, talking about where kids live now compared to current high school.


Of course. In general Fox Mill kids live closer than Crossfield kids. Look at the map. The traffic is also easy for Fox Mill kids thanks to Pinecrest rd.


It is a wash. Some Fox Mill live closer than some Crossfield kids and some Crossfield kids live closer than some Fox Mill kids.
The question is: will they move Crossfield from Oakton? If so, Crossfield goes to KAA. That seems likely to me, but I don't live in Crossfield boundary or Fox Mill. And, I am not on the School Board--which is what counts.


It's not really a wash.

Yes, some Crossfield kids live close to KAA, but many, if not most, Crossfield kids live east of Lawyers Road. If I remember correctly, none of the Fox Mill boundary is east of Lawyers Road, meaning they don’t have to cross Lawyers or 286.

But you’re right. We are not the decision-makers. Meren may let Fox Mill stay in South Lakes. Some parents at Crossfield may lobby hard against the boundary change. Fox Mill probably has a slightly better chance.



Um, no, you clearly have no affiliation with Crossfield. Most Crossfield kids live in Franklin Farm or off of West Ox between West Ox and Fairfax County Parkway. Only the kids in Folkstone and Fox Mill Woods and one or two random streets off of Fox Mill live on the other side of West Ox/Lawyers.


There are still significant number of kids east of Lawyers (around 25-33%)

As long as we're just making up numbers then when I eyeball the map it looks like the homes to the west of Lawyers are much more densely packed and have more buildable land due to Little Difficult Run Stream Valley Park being on the east side. I'd put it at more like 20% east of Lawyers.

As for which one would go to the new school (if any), that would probably be very political between school board members and decided without the public knowing the real reason. Could be neither right away if the new school isn't ready to accept the full capacity of kids in time for the 2026 school year.


There is no concrete stat but look at the number of homes sold for the last year or two on Redfin. Looks to me it’s more than 20%. For those kids the commute won’t be that easy (although much easier than going to Oakton). I won’t call it a wash.

I do agree with you that the decison will be a political one.

What I've done is download the FCPS elementary boundary data KML file from here, and then upload that KML as a layer into a map on Google My Maps. You can put the middle and high school KML layers on there too. That way you can toggle the satellite view on and off to see homes, unlike in the tool that Thru provided us.
Anonymous
I don’t think the decision will come down to which school is closer. It will come down to a problem that that needs to be solved. The Crossfield ES boundaries are anywhere from 6-10 miles away from Oakton HS and 3-6 miles from KAA. The Fox Mill ES boundaries are anywhere from 3-5 miles away from South Lakes HS and 2-4 miles from KAA (rough estimates.) So, yes, Fox Mill is closer, but Crossfield poses an actual problem by being twice as far from its assigned HS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the decision will come down to which school is closer. It will come down to a problem that that needs to be solved. The Crossfield ES boundaries are anywhere from 6-10 miles away from Oakton HS and 3-6 miles from KAA. The Fox Mill ES boundaries are anywhere from 3-5 miles away from South Lakes HS and 2-4 miles from KAA (rough estimates.) So, yes, Fox Mill is closer, but Crossfield poses an actual problem by being twice as far from its assigned HS.


I see the logic for this, but then what do you do with the middle school feeder patterns? How much of Franklin is feeding to the new HS and how much of Carson to South Lakes? You can't just move Fox Mill to Hughes because it immediately overcrowds Hughes. Karl Frisch may have talked about how crazy it was that part of Sully District goes to Oakton, but I doubt he paid any attention to these details.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the decision will come down to which school is closer. It will come down to a problem that that needs to be solved. The Crossfield ES boundaries are anywhere from 6-10 miles away from Oakton HS and 3-6 miles from KAA. The Fox Mill ES boundaries are anywhere from 3-5 miles away from South Lakes HS and 2-4 miles from KAA (rough estimates.) So, yes, Fox Mill is closer, but Crossfield poses an actual problem by being twice as far from its assigned HS.


That’s still a distance-based thinking (you were looking at the distance from Crossfield to Oakton and from Fox Mill to South Lakes).

Ultimately, I think the decision will come down to politics: how much Meren wants to protect SLHS, how much Crossfield parents push for staying at Oakton, and how hard Fox Mill parents lobby for the change to KAA, etc.
Anonymous
Doesn't Meren live in Vienna? Why does she care about SLHS?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Meren live in Vienna? Why does she care about SLHS?


She represents Hunter Mill and Reston voices tend to dominate there. Reston people pay a lot of attention to politics while Vienna people are taking their kids to travel sports events.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Meren live in Vienna? Why does she care about SLHS?


Meren moved to South Lakes area last year. Word on the street is that her neighbors hated her. Meren is going to do all in her power to put Fox Mill with South Lakes
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Meren live in Vienna? Why does she care about SLHS?


Meren moved to South Lakes area last year. Word on the street is that her neighbors hated her. Meren is going to do all in her power to put Fox Mill with South Lakes


Fox Mill already goes to South Lakes so “keep” would be more accurate than “put.”
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