Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like government workers, in part, because they’re my financial advisory clients. On average, my government workers are far, far better prepared for retirement than most of my other clients. The pension and subsidized health insurance are massively helpful. If a family has two federal workers, the 401ks hardly matter. I’m just saying that many - maybe not all - federal employees have it very good - especially in the long-run - compared to most DC folks. Perhaps, that helps soften the blow of RTO.

Explain to me how good I have it because I don’t see how I’m going to pay for college on two federal salaries without selling my real assets. Yes, I’ve maxed out my TSP. But that’s all I’ve got plus some equity in my house and the rental property we own. No unsecured debt really, but we aren’t saving. Retirement is 15-20 years away and with pay compression my earnings are essentially capped. I can’t depend on inheriting money like some. I can’t even depend on being employed or alive for the next 20 years. My view is to maximize earning while the earning is to be had. The days of working for government for 40 years are gone.

How is paying for college unique to feds? Private industry workers figure it out.

You pay what you can, or your kids take out loans, or they go to community college. Like everyone else.

You are a financial advisor? Or are you a different PP? As many, many, people have said: private sector pay is HIGHER.

I'm a DP.

Maybe if you're one of the ubiquitous lawyers in this thread, private pay is higher. Or if you can get a cushy consulting gig. But Feds by and large are not underpaid.

I'm a fed, married to a fed, and we have one in college now, and a second going to college in a couple of years.

I started a 529 when our oldest was born, when I was a GS-12, my husband a GS-7. Had a mortgage, daycare costs, no inheritance, still managed to contribute $400 a month. 18 years later we starting using it to pay for oldest's college. Is he at a $70K a year school? No. He knew what we could contribute and anything above that was on him. He chose accordingly.

18 YEARS? REALLY? Its not comparable.

Daycare costs and mortgage are double the total income % compared to 18 years ago.

Sure if you *just* bought a house. But up until recently mortgage rates were crazy low. House prices weren’t ridiculously high a couple years ago. What’s your daycare cost? I bet mine wasn’t that much different 18 years ago.

I guess the answer for you, to afford college, will be to leave your low-paying federal job and go get one of the high-paying private ones.

18 years ago I was in college hand writing notes in class and downloading songs on Napster. I bet my experience wasn’t that much different than your child’s college experience.

/S

I am thinking you must be a troll b/c there is no way anyone thinks childcare costs from 2005 and comparable to daycare in 2023.

In fact, they are almost triple what they were for me in 2011!

I was shocked to hear how much infant care has increased since 2014 and 2016, even in the burbs of Fairfax County.

we’re going to end up like Japan and Korea with an even faster declining birthrate because it’s too expensive to have even one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

so the federal government should obtain the most expensive leases possible in downtowns? I guess SEC should move to Hudson Yards? Get all the agencies out of Lenfant - not enough retail there and too many people drive from Virginia. Move is all to City Center.

and of course - federal wfh workers are still spending plenty on retail, just in their own neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Why would Biden take that risk (in case Covid flares up in the fall/winter) 14 months away from election? That's one risk he does not want to (and frankly, does not need to) take. I don't know about other agencies, but my agency is taking Zients memo very seriously. Our Secretary already had an all hands meeting and my program lead already told us we are coming back starting Oct 1 per WH memo. We are in the process of signing new telework agreement for FY24.

So no industry, no school, no store, no restaurant should remain open because of a potential Covid flare up?
If this is a purely political decision, DC, MD, and NOVA are are going to remain reliably Democrat.
You don't know what other agencies are doing. That's part of the problem. The Zients memo is subject to interpretation by individual agencies. Only the chief executive can get rid of this ambiguity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are RTO 6 days PP and I will be taking my flex hrs very liberally in order to still be around after school. What our leadership doesn’t understand is that WFH allowed us to stretch our productivity even further but providing flexibility. I could be at home to take my kids to practice, start dinner, etc. and still be online to finish up emails, assignments or whatever. Now if I have to maintain rigid hours in the office I won’t be opening a laptop after I get home unless my flexibility stays in place. Take away the flexibility and productivity will suffer.

Some of this flexibility is the problem too. Most meetings are from 2-5pm and people have their calendars blocked off. We work a lot with California so morning meetings won't work.

Yes! 2-5 pm is still the workday, but half the people make it siesta time. This is what’s killing WFH - people aren’t available!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Why would Biden take that risk (in case Covid flares up in the fall/winter) 14 months away from election? That's one risk he does not want to (and frankly, does not need to) take. I don't know about other agencies, but my agency is taking Zients memo very seriously. Our Secretary already had an all hands meeting and my program lead already told us we are coming back starting Oct 1 per WH memo. We are in the process of signing new telework agreement for FY24.

So no industry, no school, no store, no restaurant should remain open because of a potential Covid flare up?
If this is a purely political decision, DC, MD, and NOVA are are going to remain reliably Democrat.
You don't know what other agencies are doing. That's part of the problem. The Zients memo is subject to interpretation by individual agencies. Only the chief executive can get rid of this ambiguity.

Utterly clueless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like government workers, in part, because they’re my financial advisory clients. On average, my government workers are far, far better prepared for retirement than most of my other clients. The pension and subsidized health insurance are massively helpful. If a family has two federal workers, the 401ks hardly matter. I’m just saying that many - maybe not all - federal employees have it very good - especially in the long-run - compared to most DC folks. Perhaps, that helps soften the blow of RTO.

Explain to me how good I have it because I don’t see how I’m going to pay for college on two federal salaries without selling my real assets. Yes, I’ve maxed out my TSP. But that’s all I’ve got plus some equity in my house and the rental property we own. No unsecured debt really, but we aren’t saving. Retirement is 15-20 years away and with pay compression my earnings are essentially capped. I can’t depend on inheriting money like some. I can’t even depend on being employed or alive for the next 20 years. My view is to maximize earning while the earning is to be had. The days of working for government for 40 years are gone.

How is paying for college unique to feds? Private industry workers figure it out.

You pay what you can, or your kids take out loans, or they go to community college. Like everyone else.

You are a financial advisor? Or are you a different PP? As many, many, people have said: private sector pay is HIGHER.

I'm a DP.

Maybe if you're one of the ubiquitous lawyers in this thread, private pay is higher. Or if you can get a cushy consulting gig. But Feds by and large are not underpaid.

I'm a fed, married to a fed, and we have one in college now, and a second going to college in a couple of years.

I started a 529 when our oldest was born, when I was a GS-12, my husband a GS-7. Had a mortgage, daycare costs, no inheritance, still managed to contribute $400 a month. 18 years later we starting using it to pay for oldest's college. Is he at a $70K a year school? No. He knew what we could contribute and anything above that was on him. He chose accordingly.

18 YEARS? REALLY? Its not comparable.

Daycare costs and mortgage are double the total income % compared to 18 years ago.

Sure if you *just* bought a house. But up until recently mortgage rates were crazy low. House prices weren’t ridiculously high a couple years ago. What’s your daycare cost? I bet mine wasn’t that much different 18 years ago.

I guess the answer for you, to afford college, will be to leave your low-paying federal job and go get one of the high-paying private ones.

18 years ago I was in college hand writing notes in class and downloading songs on Napster. I bet my experience wasn’t that much different than your child’s college experience.

/S

I am thinking you must be a troll b/c there is no way anyone thinks childcare costs from 2005 and comparable to daycare in 2023.

In fact, they are almost triple what they were for me in 2011!

I was shocked to hear how much infant care has increased since 2014 and 2016, even in the burbs of Fairfax County.

we’re going to end up like Japan and Korea with an even faster declining birthrate because it’s too expensive to have even one kid.

Perhaps berating parents more about how they should have made better choices would help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Why would Biden take that risk (in case Covid flares up in the fall/winter) 14 months away from election? That's one risk he does not want to (and frankly, does not need to) take. I don't know about other agencies, but my agency is taking Zients memo very seriously. Our Secretary already had an all hands meeting and my program lead already told us we are coming back starting Oct 1 per WH memo. We are in the process of signing new telework agreement for FY24.

So no industry, no school, no store, no restaurant should remain open because of a potential Covid flare up?
If this is a purely political decision, DC, MD, and NOVA are are going to remain reliably Democrat.
You don't know what other agencies are doing. That's part of the problem. The Zients memo is subject to interpretation by individual agencies. Only the chief executive can get rid of this ambiguity.

Utterly clueless

Good reply!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Most agencies had pretty generous remote and telework even before the pandemic. Honestly going to pre-pandemic policies would be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are RTO 6 days PP and I will be taking my flex hrs very liberally in order to still be around after school. What our leadership doesn’t understand is that WFH allowed us to stretch our productivity even further but providing flexibility. I could be at home to take my kids to practice, start dinner, etc. and still be online to finish up emails, assignments or whatever. Now if I have to maintain rigid hours in the office I won’t be opening a laptop after I get home unless my flexibility stays in place. Take away the flexibility and productivity will suffer.

Some of this flexibility is the problem too. Most meetings are from 2-5pm and people have their calendars blocked off. We work a lot with California so morning meetings won't work.

Yes! 2-5 pm is still the workday, but half the people make it siesta time. This is what’s killing WFH - people aren’t available!

That's just dumb-- it's very easy to adopt core hours, especially if you work with California. This is a management issue not a WFH issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Most agencies had pretty generous remote and telework even before the pandemic. Honestly going to pre-pandemic policies would be fine.

And that's why I suggested it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Most agencies had pretty generous remote and telework even before the pandemic. Honestly going to pre-pandemic policies would be fine.

I disagree, but my agency put in a pretty draconian new policy pre-pandemic - zero telework for supervisors, because "supervision is an inherently in person responsibility." That sounds laughable 3.5 years later after what we've been through, but if we went back to that, I'd be on the first lateral transfer to a nonsupervisory job I could get. (I have a few such applications in just in case, although I'd rather move up than over.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Motivation is political. Reality is that the US economy needs it. Cities are dying for a number of reasons, but the main economic issue is the impact on service industries to include restaurants, bars, the local travel industry such as Metro in DC, etc.

Commercial real estate market crumbling, with thought of turning federal leased space into condos or apartments. Who is gong to move to DC.

Can replace DC with any number of city names. Work from home will gradually die, too many people taking advantage of the situation, loss of productivity etc.

To return feds back downtown, all it would take is an executive order from the White House ordering agencies to return to pre-pandemic telework and remote work policies by such and such date with instructions to release their compliance status. That’s it.
Maybe the memorandum from Zients was met more for the wider public and not the government?

Most agencies had pretty generous remote and telework even before the pandemic. Honestly going to pre-pandemic policies would be fine.

I disagree, but my agency put in a pretty draconian new policy pre-pandemic - zero telework for supervisors, because "supervision is an inherently in person responsibility." That sounds laughable 3.5 years later after what we've been through, but if we went back to that, I'd be on the first lateral transfer to a nonsupervisory job I could get. (I have a few such applications in just in case, although I'd rather move up than over.)

Okay. No one is irreplaceable in the office. You'd move to a position that is more suited to you - that's great!
You are irreplaceable though as a spouse, daughter, son, friend, etc. though. But to government, they'll find a person who, chances are, will do as good or better job than you did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are RTO 6 days PP and I will be taking my flex hrs very liberally in order to still be around after school. What our leadership doesn’t understand is that WFH allowed us to stretch our productivity even further but providing flexibility. I could be at home to take my kids to practice, start dinner, etc. and still be online to finish up emails, assignments or whatever. Now if I have to maintain rigid hours in the office I won’t be opening a laptop after I get home unless my flexibility stays in place. Take away the flexibility and productivity will suffer.

Some of this flexibility is the problem too. Most meetings are from 2-5pm and people have their calendars blocked off. We work a lot with California so morning meetings won't work.

CA aside why do most meetings have to be between 2-5? Also, if I have to have a 5pm meeting on a day when my kid needs to be someplace by 5:30 or 6, I’m taking that meeting from home. Unless there’s an absolutely necessity I need to be there in person. The rigid thinking around work hours has to go. Meetings should try to be during code hrs.

[Anonymous]

*core

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are RTO 6 days PP and I will be taking my flex hrs very liberally in order to still be around after school. What our leadership doesn’t understand is that WFH allowed us to stretch our productivity even further but providing flexibility. I could be at home to take my kids to practice, start dinner, etc. and still be online to finish up emails, assignments or whatever. Now if I have to maintain rigid hours in the office I won’t be opening a laptop after I get home unless my flexibility stays in place. Take away the flexibility and productivity will suffer.

Some of this flexibility is the problem too. Most meetings are from 2-5pm and people have their calendars blocked off. We work a lot with California so morning meetings won't work.

CA aside why do most meetings have to be between 2-5? Also, if I have to have a 5pm meeting on a day when my kid needs to be someplace by 5:30 or 6, I’m taking that meeting from home. Unless there’s an absolutely necessity I need to be there in person. The rigid thinking around work hours has to go. Meetings should try to be during code hrs.

PP here. Meetings aren't scheduled at 5, but we do have 4pm or 4:30 meetings that go until 5pm.

Most of the California staff doesn't get in until 9am, which is noon and lunch time for us. So most meetings run 1pm-5pm ET. I have tried fighting this too, but it is what it is. We actually have some staff in AK and Hawaii too.