How is FCPS teacher/staff shortage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

DP. Not work before or after the contract, no. But during the contract? That's expected and normal. Should it not be? I don't know, but it's how things go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really bad across the board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/03/school-teacher-shortage/

They need to increase teacher pay drastically. Like at least +$20k a year across the board on all pay scales.

Nonsense. Pay should increase substantially for the positions where it is hard to find qualified instructors (self-contained special ed, math, science, etc.). Pay should go up until qualified professionals are willing to take the jobs.

I agree. I do think classroom teachers and SPED should get paid more than elective teachers. There should be three teacher scales.

Teacher 1(PE, Music, Art, Librarian, Resource Teachers, Elective)

Teacher 2(Classroom Teachers in ES and High School)

Teacher 3 (SPED and ESOL)

If this is not an option teachers should get paid more by having larger classes. The base salary is for 24 kids. Any additional child should warrant more money. It isn’t fair that some teachers have 18 kids and others have 30 and get paid the same.

They could also do bonuses for every 5 year of service.

Schools need to start thinking outside the box to RETAIN the teachers they have and the community needs to also help by paying more in taxes or implementing a meals tax to help offset the cost.

I get where you’re going with this but what about the aides who have to spend all their time subbing because school is short staffed or teachers are out with covid. Don’t they deserve more for pulling all that extra weight? If school keep leaning hard on low paid aides they will break, and quit.

And the resource teachers still have to get bachelors + teaching licenses + continuing ed credits and they teach at the elementary school EVERY kid including those who are otherwise in self-contained classes (and often have more of the challenging students at the MS/HS level too). And have to follow IEPs etc. Art, music and PE are much more professionalized than they were in the past. And librarians have to manage a collection and teach all the critical media/literacy skills. There are shortages among all these too. I think it is all too easy for people to decide that a job they are not doing isn't that hard or that important etc. without a lot of knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

Teachers are salaried employees but we are only contracted for specific days. We have single year contracts with typically an August start date and June end date. There are also days during the year we are not under contract. That’s part of why pay is so low compared to the level of degrees and experience etc. most teachers in FCPS are only paid for the 195 days they are under contract. So, spring break - not under contract, winter break - not under contract, both of those we will still end up with a paycheck. Teachers do not get a July paycheck since our contract has officially ended and our new one has not started yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

DP. Not work before or after the contract, no. But during the contract? That's expected and normal. Should it not be? I don't know, but it's how things go.

PP here.
Of course. Nobody is questioning that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really bad across the board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/03/school-teacher-shortage/

They need to increase teacher pay drastically. Like at least +$20k a year across the board on all pay scales.

But it's not just about pay. They also need to add more support staff--I would've killed for a secretary. Someone who could schedule phone meetings with parents, grade simple papers, put grades into gradebook, and make copies. That way I could focus on the important stuff of being a professional teacher--planning lessons that meet the needs of all my students.

Jesus, I know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

Well, you can always teach public high school. I have a PhD and that’s what I ended up doing. Given current work conditions, I am not sure how long I will last, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

Well, you can always teach public high school. I have a PhD and that’s what I ended up doing. Given current work conditions, I am not sure how long I will last, though.

I'm just saying it's disingenuous to equate teachers with other short-term contract workers because teachers get health insurance/retirement credits on a continuous basis--that it's more like professors in that there are some continual responsibilities and also expectations to prepare for the upcoming year. I think it's dangerous to equate the teaching contract with other contract terms because those contractors--of which there are many in the DC area--either don't have benefits or lose them when the contract is over. Do we really want to have people thinking that we should do that for teachers too? Benefits and a schedule that matches your kids' school schedule have long been the things that keep people in the profession despite its hardships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

Well, you can always teach public high school. I have a PhD and that’s what I ended up doing. Given current work conditions, I am not sure how long I will last, though.

I'm just saying it's disingenuous to equate teachers with other short-term contract workers because teachers get health insurance/retirement credits on a continuous basis--that it's more like professors in that there are some continual responsibilities and also expectations to prepare for the upcoming year. I think it's dangerous to equate the teaching contract with other contract terms because those contractors--of which there are many in the DC area--either don't have benefits or lose them when the contract is over. Do we really want to have people thinking that we should do that for teachers too? Benefits and a schedule that matches your kids' school schedule have long been the things that keep people in the profession despite its hardships.

Which post did that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

Well, you can always teach public high school. I have a PhD and that’s what I ended up doing. Given current work conditions, I am not sure how long I will last, though.

I'm just saying it's disingenuous to equate teachers with other short-term contract workers because teachers get health insurance/retirement credits on a continuous basis--that it's more like professors in that there are some continual responsibilities and also expectations to prepare for the upcoming year. I think it's dangerous to equate the teaching contract with other contract terms because those contractors--of which there are many in the DC area--either don't have benefits or lose them when the contract is over. Do we really want to have people thinking that we should do that for teachers too? Benefits and a schedule that matches your kids' school schedule have long been the things that keep people in the profession despite its hardships.

Which post did that?

The response on 17:38--and some back and forth were likening it to contracts--and whether you work before and after they end. And if you have those contracts you're not getting benefits from the contractors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need some drastic moves recruit and retain high quality teachers. One bold move would be to go to a 4-day school week for kids. Increase T-F by 30 minutes. Kids do async work on Monday’s. Teachers plan, have pd on Monday’s. That means less time away from kids T-F. There are other models to accomplish this.

Parents will have to decide whether they want 5 days of school with a crappy, unqualified teacher in a large class or figure out childcare one day a week and get a high quality teacher in a decent sized class.

https://www.edsurge.com/amp/news/2022-06-22-can-four-day-school-weeks-keep-teachers-from-leaving

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/19/texas-schools-four-day-weeks/amp/

I’m in full support of a 4-day in-person week with Monday planning time for teachers while students use digital tools. I know for a fact this would be a huge boost for retention and the well-being of our staff

OMG. I hope this is a joke. I"m here for the kids, not the teachers.

"Digital tools" are garbage. Virtual school was a no-learning disaster and you want to cut out 20% of the school year?

Actually, it would be easy to extend the instructional time over 4 days and allow a day of planning for teachers and an additional day of rest/recreation for students. I would imagine that the mental and physical health benefits would be worth it. The way school is currently operating is not working for many people.

You think you’re “sticking it to” middle and upper middle class suburban moms with cushy full time telecommute government jobs or stay at home parents with this 4 day school week stuff. In reality, those families will make adjustments and have a lot of resentment toward teachers as a result, while kids on the margins of society won’t do their “asynchronous work” at all and will just continue to fall behind.

Let me explain the reality: We’re in a crisis right now and need to figure out how to attract teachers to work here and to retain those that are already here. A 4-day week with students could make a real difference. You’re worried about what could happen to those students on the “margins of society.” Those would be kids who typically go to Title 1 schools. Right NOW, these are the schools that literally have classrooms without teachers. This week, there are 14 schools with 6-10 teacher vacancies at elementary schools. TEN of those 14 are Title 1 schools. (Yes, there’s a list.)

So if I have the choice between 4-days of instruction for every kid with a qualified teacher that was excited to work/stay in FCPS because of the 4-day teaching schedule vs 5 days with a class staffed with a teacher whose best qualifications are that they are breathing and haven’t hurt a child, I’ll take the former. That will be better for those kids on the “margins of society” that I serve.

-Administrator in a Title 1 ES

Two teachers here, both ES. Why would we be excited about 4 days of instruction vs 5? Please explain the benefit. I’m reminded of early release Mondays. They were often filled up with meetings. The same will happen with full day on Monday and anything I might get done that day will probably have to be tweaked by mid-week.

I currently get 300 minutes a week for planning (an hour each day). 120 of those are spent in not-so-worthwhile CT meetings, after which I find I still have to plan and gather materials. Give me those 300 minutes, or at minimum 240, unencumbered so during the school day I can get done some of what I need to get done.

I’ll be curious to know how much time we will be given before the students return. Out of 6 contract days it looks like 2 are listed as TW days, one of which can be used to complete MyPDE trainings and the other is scheduled for Open House. Add in all the BOY tasks and conferences with families prior to Open House prior to BTSN and we’re already behind by the second week of September.

Conferences with families before BTSN? What school is this? THAT is not anything I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been teaching ES for a long time in the county.

I'd like someone, particularly a principal, to actually pinpoint on a calendar times they expect those to be done. I'd be like, "Show me where I can fit them in".

Agree! Not only does it take time to do the actual conference, but there’s also the time it takes to schedule them. That would be a nightmare. We do a Welcome Walk at our school before school starts. It’s a tradition that I love. Our principal buys us dinner and adjusts the time we have to be at school that day and on Friday. If we’re done setting up after the open house on Friday morning, we can leave. There’s no way I could have time to set up and get conferences done.

We have been told that we will be able to access our classrooms as early the start of next week to start preparing for the school year. They seem to think they are doing us a favor by allowing us access in order to donate our time for free. No, thank you.

In a lot of the working world, you get paid a salary to do your job. If that job takes more than the traditional 35 or 40 hours a week, then you work that additional time. And I know a lot of teachers with this attitude too, but then people like this come on here and are like "I refuse to work anything outside of my exact contracted hours and days" and make everyone else look bad.

Let’s say you are hired to do a job and the contract ends on a particular date. How many more weeks do you continue to work past the end of the contract? One? Three? How much time do people in non-teaching roles typically put in before or after a contract ends? I’m genuinely curious.

* before it starts or after it ends

I have worked with MANY companies where I’ve signed short-term contracts (3-12 months). I don’t work before or after the dates in the contract (frankly, they wouldn’t pay me to). If they need me to work further, we sign another contract.

That’s what I thought. Thank you. I’m perplexed why the PP expects teachers to do differently.

I find this discussion interesting - so are teachers just contractors? Do they get paid on an hourly basis and not salary? They don't actually work full-time for the school system? I assumed they were employees and not contractors.

I think you have to consider them employees because they get a W-2 and benefits, but they are only employees for 10 months out of the year.

Most professors are 9 month contracts, but they are responsible for student advising, writing, research, course preparation etc. during the summer too. So I think considering educators who are salaried workers, receiving benefits such as their health insurance over the summer and retirement credits based on years worked etc. the same as short term contract workers who typically don't receive health or retirement benefits.

Well, you can always teach public high school. I have a PhD and that’s what I ended up doing. Given current work conditions, I am not sure how long I will last, though.

I'm just saying it's disingenuous to equate teachers with other short-term contract workers because teachers get health insurance/retirement credits on a continuous basis--that it's more like professors in that there are some continual responsibilities and also expectations to prepare for the upcoming year. I think it's dangerous to equate the teaching contract with other contract terms because those contractors--of which there are many in the DC area--either don't have benefits or lose them when the contract is over. Do we really want to have people thinking that we should do that for teachers too? Benefits and a schedule that matches your kids' school schedule have long been the things that keep people in the profession despite its hardships.

Which post did that?

The response on 17:38--and some back and forth were likening it to contracts--and whether you work before and after they end. And if you have those contracts you're not getting benefits from the contractors.

I see.
At the same time though, I don’t think it should be expected that teachers go in and prepare their classrooms on days 196-199 when they are contracted for 195.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really bad across the board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/03/school-teacher-shortage/

They need to increase teacher pay drastically. Like at least +$20k a year across the board on all pay scales.

Nonsense. Pay should increase substantially for the positions where it is hard to find qualified instructors (self-contained special ed, math, science, etc.). Pay should go up until qualified professionals are willing to take the jobs.

I agree. I do think classroom teachers and SPED should get paid more than elective teachers. There should be three teacher scales.

Teacher 1(PE, Music, Art, Librarian, Resource Teachers, Elective)

Teacher 2(Classroom Teachers in ES and High School)

Teacher 3 (SPED and ESOL)

If this is not an option teachers should get paid more by having larger classes. The base salary is for 24 kids. Any additional child should warrant more money. It isn’t fair that some teachers have 18 kids and others have 30 and get paid the same.

They could also do bonuses for every 5 year of service.

Schools need to start thinking outside the box to RETAIN the teachers they have and the community needs to also help by paying more in taxes or implementing a meals tax to help offset the cost.

I get where you’re going with this but what about the aides who have to spend all their time subbing because school is short staffed or teachers are out with covid. Don’t they deserve more for pulling all that extra weight? If school keep leaning hard on low paid aides they will break, and quit.

And the resource teachers still have to get bachelors + teaching licenses + continuing ed credits and they teach at the elementary school EVERY kid including those who are otherwise in self-contained classes (and often have more of the challenging students at the MS/HS level too). And have to follow IEPs etc. Art, music and PE are much more professionalized than they were in the past. And librarians have to manage a collection and teach all the critical media/literacy skills. There are shortages among all these too. I think it is all too easy for people to decide that a job they are not doing isn't that hard or that important etc. without a lot of knowledge.

I am a librarian who was previously a classroom teacher. They should ABSOLUTELY get paid more than me. There is no comparison for workload and responsibilities. Yes, specialist teachers see more kids and do more grades. But ES teachers have to prep reading, writing, word study, math, ss, science, small group instruction, Morning Meeting, grade work, do report cards, host Back to School Night, do conferences with each kid, attend IEP meetings, go on field trips, ect. There really is not a comparison and I am saying this as a specialist. I am not saying we should not be paid more also - just that classroom teachers and SPED teachers should be getting paid more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really bad across the board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/03/school-teacher-shortage/

They need to increase teacher pay drastically. Like at least +$20k a year across the board on all pay scales.

Nonsense. Pay should increase substantially for the positions where it is hard to find qualified instructors (self-contained special ed, math, science, etc.). Pay should go up until qualified professionals are willing to take the jobs.

I agree. I do think classroom teachers and SPED should get paid more than elective teachers. There should be three teacher scales.

Teacher 1(PE, Music, Art, Librarian, Resource Teachers, Elective)

Teacher 2(Classroom Teachers in ES and High School)

Teacher 3 (SPED and ESOL)

If this is not an option teachers should get paid more by having larger classes. The base salary is for 24 kids. Any additional child should warrant more money. It isn’t fair that some teachers have 18 kids and others have 30 and get paid the same.

They could also do bonuses for every 5 year of service.

Schools need to start thinking outside the box to RETAIN the teachers they have and the community needs to also help by paying more in taxes or implementing a meals tax to help offset the cost.

I get where you’re going with this but what about the aides who have to spend all their time subbing because school is short staffed or teachers are out with covid. Don’t they deserve more for pulling all that extra weight? If school keep leaning hard on low paid aides they will break, and quit.

And the resource teachers still have to get bachelors + teaching licenses + continuing ed credits and they teach at the elementary school EVERY kid including those who are otherwise in self-contained classes (and often have more of the challenging students at the MS/HS level too). And have to follow IEPs etc. Art, music and PE are much more professionalized than they were in the past. And librarians have to manage a collection and teach all the critical media/literacy skills. There are shortages among all these too. I think it is all too easy for people to decide that a job they are not doing isn't that hard or that important etc. without a lot of knowledge.

I am a librarian who was previously a classroom teacher. They should ABSOLUTELY get paid more than me. There is no comparison for workload and responsibilities. Yes, specialist teachers see more kids and do more grades. But ES teachers have to prep reading, writing, word study, math, ss, science, small group instruction, Morning Meeting, grade work, do report cards, host Back to School Night, do conferences with each kid, attend IEP meetings, go on field trips, ect. There really is not a comparison and I am saying this as a specialist. I am not saying we should not be paid more also - just that classroom teachers and SPED teachers should be getting paid more.

Specialist teachers also have to do grading, report cards etc. Art teachers are also often responsible for exhibitions, for buying and maintaining supplies and equipment and music teachers for performances and instruments. My own experience is as a classroom teacher and for a brief time as a principal (then quickly back to the classroom for me--I hated doing admin!) I just don't like it when people assume a job they don't have full knowledge of is 'worth less' than others. But the one thing being a principal afforded me was seeing a bigger picture of what each role was doing. I didn't see a big variation in the amount of responsibilities of the various teachers. They are all there doing a lot of work.