Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

Watch the video linked. I’m tired of this “I’m sooo reasonable and calm and lets all just wait” shit, because I think it’s an impediment to actual discussion, and to more people actually understanding the limitations of ‘good guy’ theory.

[Anonymous]

The leading cause of death for children in America is guns. Let that sink in. https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/gun-deaths-children-america

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

DP. I hope this doesn't come across as too judgmental, I absolutely feel for the officers who deserve as much forgiveness for their mistakes as anyone else, but as a parent, I look at this scene as ask myself why there are 19 dead kids and no police officers who were even badly hurt. Adults have a duty in those circumstances to step up and take a bullet for the kids, especially police officers, but any one of us honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

Aren’t we past putting this entirely on the SROs? What about the other LEOs that got there quickly and went in and pulled out only their children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

The chest is a pretty big target. That’s why it’s recommended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

DP. I hope this doesn't come across as too judgmental, I absolutely feel for the officers who deserve as much forgiveness for their mistakes as anyone else, but as a parent, I look at this scene as ask myself why there are 19 dead kids and no police officers who were even badly hurt. Adults have a duty in those circumstances to step up and take a bullet for the kids, especially police officers, but any one of us honestly.

Especially armed police officers who are part of a large group. This is total f’ing madness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

Aren’t we past putting this entirely on the SROs? What about the other LEOs that got there quickly and went in and pulled out only their children?

I don’t think we know they only rescued their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

DP. I hope this doesn't come across as too judgmental, I absolutely feel for the officers who deserve as much forgiveness for their mistakes as anyone else, but as a parent, I look at this scene as ask myself why there are 19 dead kids and no police officers who were even badly hurt. Adults have a duty in those circumstances to step up and take a bullet for the kids, especially police officers, but any one of us honestly.

I think some would have. I am curious about the ages, fitness levels and marksmanship skills of the officers but this is a longer term issue to analyze and of course Monday morning quarter backing is the easiest thing in the world to do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

Aren’t we past putting this entirely on the SROs? What about the other LEOs that got there quickly and went in and pulled out only their children?

I don’t think we know they only rescued their children.

Okay lets leave that aside. How about them being in a group and not going in? What percentage of police funding goes to Perimeter Establishment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

DP. I hope this doesn't come across as too judgmental, I absolutely feel for the officers who deserve as much forgiveness for their mistakes as anyone else, but as a parent, I look at this scene as ask myself why there are 19 dead kids and no police officers who were even badly hurt. Adults have a duty in those circumstances to step up and take a bullet for the kids, especially police officers, but any one of us honestly.

I think some would have. I am curious about the ages, fitness levels and marksmanship skills of the officers but this is a longer term issue to analyze and of course Monday morning quarter backing is the easiest thing in the world to do

Hello, fellow quarterback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

The chest is a pretty big target. That’s why it’s recommended.

Yes but depending on where it lands it may not completely stop the shooter...hence the addition of the head.

[Anonymous]

Can we all give praise to the Queen or King of deflection here, who is going to argue you need to be a sniper to go into an elementary school being shot up? This is a wonderful discussion. I’m so glad to see this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

I’m willing to withhold judgement until much more is known and verified. There are conflicting accounts. If the shooter was confronted by the resource officer after he entered the building — which is one scenario that has been reported — then it’s possible the presence of other children prevented a firefight. The officer had something like 9 bullets. The shooter at least 210.

DP. I hope this doesn't come across as too judgmental, I absolutely feel for the officers who deserve as much forgiveness for their mistakes as anyone else, but as a parent, I look at this scene as ask myself why there are 19 dead kids and no police officers who were even badly hurt. Adults have a duty in those circumstances to step up and take a bullet for the kids, especially police officers, but any one of us honestly.

I think some would have. I am curious about the ages, fitness levels and marksmanship skills of the officers but this is a longer term issue to analyze and of course Monday morning quarter backing is the easiest thing in the world to do

Hello, fellow quarterback.

I said it with no judgment....it can and will be reviewed by people who are professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reports coming out that the police waited outside the school for over an hour while the shooter was inside. Kids were bleeding out while they were too much of cowards to help. Despicable. They should all be fired. Cops are not the answer!

I thought Texas had many good guys with guns who will protect their people. Where were they?

Not having their guns because the school is a no gun zone and they follow the law. Unlike people who want to shoot other people, who do not follow the law.

There was at least one armed officer at the school. Plus others who reportedly responded after the shooter crashed his truck. The police are on record that they “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school.

Then they go in after him. Discharging your weapon one then giving up and waiting outside was the wrong thing to do. They should have continuously engaged with him and followed him in- until either he or they were unable to engage further.

There is no indication at this point that any officer fired a weapon at the shooter before he was allowed to gain entry to the school.

Correct. And it turns out his vest was not body armour but merely ammo storage. A few well placed shots to the chest would have done the trick.

As my husband in law enforcement, an air marshall, has said, two to the chest, one to the head. These guards are unlikely to have strong marksmanship skills though right? That requires a lot of training and practice, a lot of muscle memory. Maybe this will bring about changes in training. There will be a lot to unpack about this tragedy on multiple levels obviously.

Aren’t we past putting this entirely on the SROs? What about the other LEOs that got there quickly and went in and pulled out only their children?

I don’t think we know they only rescued their children.

Maybe they got their kids' friends out too. They certainly ignored the room where the active shooter was executing children.