Mommy Mafia

[Anonymous]

Interesting article in the post on moms who judge other moms' decisions.

Hmmm. Thank goodness that never happens on DCUM.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/wayoflife/04/13/mommy.mafia.jen.klein/index.html?hpt=C2

[Anonymous]

I'm curious, does anyone think that this "mommy mafia" concept is new? As in, are moms more judgemental of each other now than in previous generations? Or, are the ways in which "we" (I'm painting with a broad brush here) judge merely are different now?

Most of us have a tiny inner critic and that isn't limited to child rearing. Most of us can control ourselves, both online and offline. Can anyone admit of overreacting, say on DCUM, in way that you normally wouldn't have? I overreacted once to a rather innocent post. I thought about it later and realized that it wasn't the poster or the topic that made me overreact, it was something going on in my work day.

[Anonymous]

I think the anonymity thing drives a lot of the really snarky remarks. But also the written word is a lot more powerful than the spoken word. Someone turns to you and says, "I know at least my child is getting the best nutrients because I breastfeed", and in conversation you let this pass. It's a statement. In the context of conversation, you are not going to grip onto any particular opinion, and probably if you did respond it would be in a polite way. But something about the written word is absolute. And so there is this tendency to rip into arguments that are written far more than you might for arguments that are spoken.

I know I live a rather passive and tolerant life outside DCUM. But I've been involved in some contentious discussions on this forum where I've not only felt attacked, but I've attacked back in a way I never would in real life.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the mommy mafia is entirely new, but I think it is much more noticeable now that women actually have choices in how they do things. There were a lot fewer choices 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, and fewer choices 20 or 30 years ago. Before disposable diapers and formula came into being, the breast v. bottle and disposable v. cloth arguments didn't exist. Private schools were really only for the upper class, parochial schools served the very religious and everyone else went public. And a much smaller percentage of women worked after motherhood - I suspect those who worked did so because they had to, not because they wanted to, up until maybe the last generation? You also didn't have the sheer number of single mothers you do now. (and unless they were widowed, the stigma was huge.)

I've always hated the way that some women seem to feel the need to judge and attack other women, whether it's their choices, their appearance, etc. I feel like it hurts us and keeps us from gaining true power and equality because we're wasting so much energy on stupid, trivial crap while men are spending time and energy doing things that are more important. (though let's face it, a lot of them are probably spending the same amount of time watching sports, so maybe that's a bad theory.) I've tried really hard not to question or criticize the way my friends do things unless it's to tell them I think they're being too hard on themselves. Motherhood is tough enough without so many of us doing things and saying things that make it unnecessarily even harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the anonymity thing drives a lot of the really snarky remarks. But also the written word is a lot more powerful than the spoken word. Someone turns to you and says, "I know at least my child is getting the best nutrients because I breastfeed", and in conversation you let this pass. It's a statement. In the context of conversation, you are not going to grip onto any particular opinion, and probably if you did respond it would be in a polite way. But something about the written word is absolute. And so there is this tendency to rip into arguments that are written far more than you might for arguments that are spoken.

I know I live a rather passive and tolerant life outside DCUM. But I've been involved in some contentious discussions on this forum where I've not only felt attacked, but I've attacked back in a way I never would in real life.

Or you could say "and in your case, his first sips of chardonnay. He's going to have such a discerning palate when he grows up!"

[Anonymous]

I blame estrogen.

[Anonymous]

"I'm curious, does anyone think that this "mommy mafia" concept is new? As in, are moms more judgemental of each other now than in previous generations? Or, are the ways in which "we" (I'm painting with a broad brush here) judge merely are different now?

Most of us have a tiny inner critic and that isn't limited to child rearing. Most of us can control ourselves, both online and offline. Can anyone admit of overreacting, say on DCUM, in way that you normally wouldn't have? I overreacted once to a rather innocent post. I thought about it later and realized that it wasn't the poster or the topic that made me overreact, it was something going on in my work day. "

Absolutely not, my mother and her friends were horrible. They would judge each other on everything and usually pretty trivial things that surrounded child rearing or social faux pas. They formed little factions and reveled in validating each other's horror at what the offender did. They patted each other on the back when they were being self righteous. Today's mom do the same thing but with a different slant. On the surface it seems less gossipy as they arm themselves with studies for CIO vs co sleeping, BF vs formula etc but its the same thing.

[Anonymous]

I do think women tend to do this, but I also think my mom's inner circle had a lot less to debate. No one in the neighborhood worked when their kids were young (many did go back to school and work when kids got into elementary school or older), so there wasn't a SAHM/WM dynamic. There wasn't a vaccine debate; breast feeding was considered good but certainly there wasn't this big push and all these articles which seem to flame the debates about how formula isn't poison. So I think a lot less to debate in some cases, though I do remember some gossip, etc.

Interesting though, I'll have to ask her what she remembers about this experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think women tend to do this, but I also think my mom's inner circle had a lot less to debate. No one in the neighborhood worked when their kids were young (many did go back to school and work when kids got into elementary school or older), so there wasn't a SAHM/WM dynamic. There wasn't a vaccine debate; breast feeding was considered good but certainly there wasn't this big push and all these articles which seem to flame the debates about how formula isn't poison. So I think a lot less to debate in some cases, though I do remember some gossip, etc.

Interesting though, I'll have to ask her what she remembers about this experience.

Also, in my mom's generation, everyone talked to eachother. Maybe a little idle gossip over the fence, but there was no ability to trash people with impunity (as you can do in an anonymous forum).

[Anonymous]

I think there was judging, but it wasn't about formula or working. It was about character formation -- who was raising their kids right, and who was spoiling them or letting them turn into brats.

[Anonymous]

the word we want is "cabal"

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's new. I think women can be eachother's best allies and can also sabotage eachother. It starts even as early as elementary school where some girls support eachother and others use social aggression to feel good about themselves. Women today may have more choices, but IMO can be just as judgemental as those who grew up in a different day. My grandmother..may she rest in peace..used to obsess over trivial things about her neighbors and how they kept their homes and raised their kids. At the age of 4 I recall dropping a cookie on the kitchen floor of my neighborhood friend's house. His mom told me her floor was spotless so I didn't have to worry about eating the cookie. I still wouldn't so she asked me if my home had dirty floors and that's why I wouldn't eat it. Then she started to ask me other questions to try to figure out how her parenting and cleaning compared to my mothers.

ReCUM I would not be at all suprised if some of the women on here with the rudest and most snarky posts seem sweet and very charming in person. It goes back to the whole social aggression thing and how women feel they aren't allowed to get angry so they bottle it up and it comes out as an online sexplosion or a passive aggressive act. Just a theory...

[Anonymous]

OMG do I have some awful typos in the last post. oops. SORRY I meant DCUM not smileCUM. Then I have sexplosion instead of explosion. I am really horrified by these typos. I see others as well. No more posts for me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG do I have some awful typos in the last post. oops. SORRY I meant DCUM not smileCUM. Then I have sexplosion instead of explosion. I am really horrified by these typos. I see others as well. No more posts for me!

I was thinking sexplosion was deliberate. I am thinking of using that term going forward...

[Anonymous]

I think it is more prevalent because of these increased choices. We are no longer "all in this together" in some ways. Honestly, I am nice on DCUM in terms of not lashing out unless someone makes a big generalization that is mired in self-righteousness, but in "real life" I do tend to want to hang out with moms who I can relate to.

In the early days I felt closer to moms who BF because they could relate to what I was going through. Now, I could care less if someone BF because I'm done with it. And same with WMs - I tend to want to seek WMs out because I feel like they can relate to me more, share tips, etc. That doesn't mean I don't like SAHMs or feel like we can't find common ground, but there day-to-day might be different than mine, I may feel like they are judging me for using daycare, etc.

Most of my mom friends are through work, my two best friends prior to having kids (who also happen to be WMs, and one in a different part of the country where she is more in the minority), my neighbor who also happens to work (again, we would probably be friends anyway but this may have bought us closer), and some moms I've met through daycare (who are DH's coworkers since we have daycare at his work).

There are some SAHMs in my neighborhood who seem nice but I really haven't gotten to know them very well. I guess my point is I don't have that much experience with the mom mafia because maybe I seek out moms I can relate to.