Is AAP selection really as random as this board makes it seem?

[Anonymous]

Because honestly, it sounds like the process is like picking names out from a hat.

[Anonymous]

What I mean is…high scores? Probably means nothing. High grades? Probably means nothing too. Above grade level distinction? Doesn’t mean a thing.

[Anonymous]

IME, the kids who you would expect to be in AAP are in AAP and the kids who you would expect to be in gen ed are in gen ed.

A couple of the outliers post on this forum. But mostly the selection process seems to work.

[Anonymous]

I think it works. My son was a strong reader, smart, reading novels in first grade. His teacher referred him and we didn’t do a thing.
My daughter was rejected first year, which was probably right. The next year we referred her and submitted samples and she got in.
I think the teachers do recognize and there is weight in that and it should be, they can differentiate in many cases who needs enrichment

[Anonymous]

No one here knows how random or not that it is. I suspect that the people we hear from who think it is random are outliers who had kids with high scores or high GBRSs and were not accepted. The process is meant to be holistic so there is no guarantee for any child. The reality is that more then a majority of kids who are in-pool are accepted and half the kids who are parent referred. That doesn’t feel all that random to me.

I think they are looking for kids who are bright, demonstrate that they are interested in learning, and need a challenge. They are looking for kids who need more then Gen Ed. I think the curiosity and engagement piece is more important then people want to believe and that it is the down fall for some kids. But that is just based on the anecdotes posted here.

Looking at your list.

High Grades: What does a 4 mean? That a kid mastered what ever material that was presented to them. You are looking at grades from K-2, I would guess that the bar for attaining mastery is not all that high. I would expect most kids are getting 3s and 4s at this age. I know not all kids but probably more kids are getting 4s in ES then get As in MS and HS. I would expect that an above average kid who is paying attention will end up with 3s and 4s, and probably more 4s then 3s. So do the grades really point to a kid needing AAP? Probably not. I would guess that almost every kid applying to AAP has mainly 4s on their report card.

High test scores: Define a high test score? My son was solidly in the 135 range on the NNAT and the CogAT, His quant score was 140 and his non-verbal was 125. Is that a high score? I think it is in the 99th percentile. It seems high enough to me but I know people are thinking of kids in the 140’s. But here is the thing, people prep their kids for the NNAT and the CogAT. Heck, we bought a workbook for the CogAT and had DS do one of the practice tests. We did not even know the NNAT existed until we got the scores sent home so no prep there. We know that there classes that prep kids for the NNAT and the CogAT. The committee knows this and seems to weigh the tests with a grain of salt because they are aware of people prepping. Some of those high scores could be inflated by prep while some are natural. How does the committee know the difference?

GBRSs: Perfect GBRSs do not seem to be a guarantee of anything. I tend to think that what really matters are the comments that are made and less the actual GBRS. The comments need to match the score. Are there examples that explain why a child scored high on the GBRS or is the comment just that the child evidenced this trait? There is a part of me that thinks that perfect GBRS could even be a flag of a Teacher taking the easy way through the process making the comments more important. We know that plenty of kids with Frequently Observed and not Consistently Observed are accepted, could it be that Teachers who are willing to point out that a child is advanced in a lot of areas but not all is seen as being more discerning in their scores and the overall GBRSs are taken more seriously then a perfect GBRS with the comments not providing many examples?

No one has the slightest clue about work samples.

Reading this board you see parents discussing what they need to do to get their kid into AAP. Some are thinking of taking tests in different locations, some are sending their kids to prep classes, some are doing work books (guilty), some are planning out home work samples. The Committee knows all this is happening and they view applications with this in mind.

[Anonymous]

My very experienced AART put it this way: Of the approximately 25 kids who get accepted each year from the base school, 20 of them get accepted and deserve to get in. Another 5 kids with very little in the packet to recommend them for AAP somehow get in anyway. Yet another 5 kids who deserve to get in and have the profile of AAP kids get rejected. Most of the kids who deserve to get in but get rejected will get in on appeals or when they apply the next year.

[Anonymous]

I agree with 16:21 and 16:41.

Overall I think in general kids who should get in do. I think they try to be wholistic and not everyone likes that. I think this board is prone to complaints from this who don’t get in more so than deserving kids who do get in. I also think people may not always give the whole truth here as well as that the same poster can sometimes look like multiple people with similar stories.

Do I think it is perfect? No. Do I think they try to make judgements on parenting, prepping, punishing or rewarding accordingly? No.

I do really think they try to make the best decision they can based on all the info in front of them. Not that a certain test score guarantees in nor that certain other “data” (not the test scores) guarantees in either - wholistic to try to balance all of the above.

[Anonymous]

I think the cutoff is somewhat arbitrary/random. Kids don't fit neatly into buckets of "advanced" or "not advanced" - there is a spectrum, and some kids may be more advanced in one area vs another.

So, IME, the truly advanced kids tend to end up in AAP. The kids who truly do not need advanced services tend to end up in gen ed.

The randomness is in the 'grey zone' cases - where to draw the line between AAP and general. Those cases are where you'll hear the most controversy and discussion, because they aren't always obvious or straightforward. They represent a small fraction of the kids in school - maybe a few percent - but a huge fraction of the discussion.

[Anonymous]

The cutoff score is 132 and the maximum score is 160. Kids who score 150 to 160 in both NNAT and Cogat and have high GBRS have very high chances to getting in. The grey area is where all these don’t go together like scores in the range of 125 to 140 and low GBRS. I may be wrong but work samples from home are not given importance.

[Anonymous]

I think most kids with in pool scores on the COGAT and good GBRS scores are in. This board has people that claim to have high on both and are denied but I take those with a grain of salt.

I think less weight is put on the NNAT if that's the only the in pool score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most kids with in pool scores on the COGAT and good GBRS scores are in. This board has people that claim to have high on both and are denied but I take those with a grain of salt.

I think less weight is put on the NNAT if that's the only the in pool score.

Me again - oh and I don't think report grades matter so much.

[Anonymous]

Outside testing matters. Want in? Get outside testing. It isn't fair. You have to work the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Outside testing matters. Want in? Get outside testing. It isn't fair. You have to work the system.

Outside testing works for appeals. The first time, it might look too desperate and considered negative due to equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outside testing matters. Want in? Get outside testing. It isn't fair. You have to work the system.

Outside testing works for appeals. The first time, it might look too desperate and considered negative due to equity.

It doesn’t work that well for appeals. And it is close to being dropped because the Committee sees it as an unfair advantage that some have. And they know that people are doing it to work the system.

[Anonymous]

The process is not objective:
My kid was in the pool in the Second grade and was rejected (very high test results, in the pool, not very good GBRSs). We appealed - rejected.
In the Third grade, we decided to resubmit, and DC was accepted, with the same tests (we didn't do any additional test), and the same GBRSs. AART submitted 1 writing and 1 math sample. I have no idea why DC was rejected in the Second and accepted in the Third.
DC says that AAP4 classes are very easy - always 100% on every test, every assignment. A few kids are struggling, and for a few the material is too easy. Many kids who are in GE can do AAP4, but they are not in those classes.