Shutdown Rhetoric

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?

The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.

Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.

Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.

Schumer's principle is for government and the Senate to operate properly, not lurching from short-term CR to short-term CR, only voting on reconciliation bills that fail to pass the CBO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

Ask Senator McConnell and Speaker Ryan why they refuse and have refused for years, to bring these bills to the floor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.

No, it shows the American public that Schumer was being reasonable in the negotiations and that Trump, the White House (which seems to be different than Trump) and the GOP are not being reasonable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.

Schumer values keeping the government open. Trump doesn't.

It's good that someone does, even if it's not the president.

If he values keeping the government open, why did he throw this DACA business into the funding bill? He figured he'd use a shutdown as leverage to get what he wanted for the illegals. Didn't work.

Because the President, the majority of the Senate and 75% of the American public support this. Only, the Speaker and the Senate Majority leader have decided that rather than bring it up for a straight, clean vote any time in the last 4 months, they would rather use it as a political football.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.

Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.

Trump is pro-DACA.

Right. Which is why this impasse is not his fault. However, it's not Trumps job to try to get 60 votes in the Senate to pass the Democratic version of immigration reform. Somehow Schumer and the left doesn't grasp this obvious fact. The left doesnt have 60 votes in the Senate for what Schumer wants. If DACA is so important to Schumer then the.left will have to make to make a lit more concessions on other things to get 60 votes. Maybe unrelated things that will appeal to enough senators of both parties to get a bill passed. After all Schumer only needs about 12 republicans because he's got 48 democratic senators lining up behind him.

Doesn't he?

Graham-Durbin has more than 60 votes. McConnell refuses to bring it to the floor. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?

The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.

Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.

Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.

That is the problem. The GOP has punted both DACA and CHIP down the road to use as political chits. They have no intention of dealing with the issue because they don't care about poor children or the Dreamers. They like to claim they do, but the really don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

Ask Senator McConnell and Speaker Ryan why they refuse and have refused for years, to bring these bills to the floor.

Don't need to ask them. They have no obligation to advocate for Democratic's legislation. Liberals don't seem to understand what elections are. It's not just a formality which can then be ignored as the permanent progressive agenda of the professional bureaucracy continues unaffected regardless of the election results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear ICE agents are glued to their couches watching every bit of cable tv they can before the shit gets cut off due to non payment . Oops ! can't troll 7-11 locations on tax payers dime anymore . What are they ? Like GS7? $70k/max?

ICE is essential. They are still going by 7-11s, churches, schools, court buildings, etc., deporting people when those people are in proceedings that prevent removal.

they are asking people for citizenship documentation. If I were brown, I would start carrying my passport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

Ask Senator McConnell and Speaker Ryan why they refuse and have refused for years, to bring these bills to the floor.

Don't need to ask them. They have no obligation to advocate for Democratic's legislation. Liberals don't seem to understand what elections are. It's not just a formality which can then be ignored as the permanent progressive agenda of the professional bureaucracy continues unaffected regardless of the election results.

They have an obligation to govern, which, in the United States of America, means a government of compromise and negotiation. That was the genius of the Founding Fathers. McConnel is falling well short of that genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?

The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.

Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.

Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.

Trump tweeted about “No CRs, permanent fix needed!” or something to that effect. So no, it’s not even clear he’d sign a non-DACA CR.

DACA can’t be left because there is ZERO evidence that the GOP will put it to the floor in good faith. If they wanted it “clean” they could have
a) funded the government clean 5 mos ago instead of doing 5 month long CRs
b) brought CHIP to the floor clean (bipartisan support and now appears to cost less if done for 10 yrs)
c) brought DACA clean to the floor months ago when Trump rescinded and demanded Congress fox it by an arbitrary March date (DACA, which also has bipartisan support and could’ve been negotiated cleanly.)

The “Left” does not lack support for what it wants to do. Instead it seems McConnell knows those things *have* support (even from Trump!) and for some reason feels like compromising in a bipartisan fashion would be a “loss.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear ICE agents are glued to their couches watching every bit of cable tv they can before the shit gets cut off due to non payment . Oops ! can't troll 7-11 locations on tax payers dime anymore . What are they ? Like GS7? $70k/max?

ICE is essential. They are still going by 7-11s, churches, schools, court buildings, etc., deporting people when those people are in proceedings that prevent removal.

they are asking people for citizenship documentation. If I were brown, I would start carrying my passport.

ICE are like the worst cops that you hear about in the news. They detain US citizens, they deport aliens who have status or are in proceedings. A passport might not be enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?

The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.

Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.

Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.

Trump tweeted about “No CRs, permanent fix needed!” or something to that effect. So no, it’s not even clear he’d sign a non-DACA CR.

DACA can’t be left because there is ZERO evidence that the GOP will put it to the floor in good faith. If they wanted it “clean” they could have
a) funded the government clean 5 mos ago instead of doing 5 month long CRs
b) brought CHIP to the floor clean (bipartisan support and now appears to cost less if done for 10 yrs)
c) brought DACA clean to the floor months ago when Trump rescinded and demanded Congress fox it by an arbitrary March date (DACA, which also has bipartisan support and could’ve been negotiated cleanly.)

The “Left” does not lack support for what it wants to do. Instead it seems McConnell knows those things *have* support (even from Trump!) and for some reason feels like compromising in a bipartisan fashion would be a “loss.”

Also, it seems that some Rs won’t vote for a CR regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?

They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?

The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.

Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.

Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.

That is the problem. The GOP has punted both DACA and CHIP down the road to use as political chits. They have no intention of dealing with the issue because they don't care about poor children or the Dreamers. They like to claim they do, but the really don't.

That's what elections are for and if you win in 2018 you can try to get legislation you want. You couldn't even when Obama was president. In the.meantime you shut down the.government because you don't have the votes for the reforms you want yet think that's going to help you win in 2018. It won't. Adopting centrist positions on immigration issues might help you win but then you would have to burn your Che Guevara T shirt.

[Anonymous]

The inability to “compromise” and understand the “other side” even on DCUM is pretty reflective of what is going on in Congress right now, and makes me think this shut down could be a doozy.

[Anonymous]

The notion Republicans are entitled to Democrat votes to break 60 without negotiating with them is bizarre. If you say take it or leave it, you have to be prepared for leave it.

This is all on the GOP and the public knows it.