Would you prefer European-style admissions?

[Anonymous]

I think it should be more like matching with Questbridge. You have a max of 10 schools you can apply to and you get matched. Can be multiple rounds. But only one application.

[Anonymous]

Right and give up the magic of Silicon Valley? French have been trying for decades to duplicate but it is precisely anti-lycee system here (no tracking) that works!

You can’t measure the motivation in 5th grade.

California has it best - community college of Berkeley to Cal Berkeley. By 20 everyone’s brain is close to maturing if not on heavy drugs…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it should be more like matching with Questbridge. You have a max of 10 schools you can apply to and you get matched. Can be multiple rounds. But only one application.

Unfortunately a matching system isn’t compatible with variable pricing. For Questbridge students, and for students using the DC public/charter application system, all potential schools in the system are free. Medical residents draw salaries.

You could do a matching system for colleges but only allow students to use it if their parents are willing to be bound to pay any price, no matter how high, but the optics would obviously be terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.
I think we need a limit on apps or to abolish the common app or something. The process now is broken compared to when most of us applied.

But the Asian approach of high stakes testing sounds miserable for kids and I want no part of that. I think we would end up closer to that version then the European model if we went to tests only.

+1

I think a lot of problems would be solved if there was a 10 application limit for the common app.

That won’t ever happen. Common App is a business like everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

The UCs basically have a giant set of ostensibly race blind parameters which they tweak to get a metric that maximally penalizes Asian students.

Not true.

What did happen is that low-income Asians (California examples: many Hmong, many Lao, some Filipino, some Vietnamese) had slightly higher rates of acceptance to public universities, while wealthy Asians had a bit lower rates of acceptance than previously.

[Anonymous]

I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

+1 The real issue with US based college admissions is the amount of $$$ parents shell out for college counselors.

Prepping for the SATs is not an issue. You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library. Lots of schools offer free SAT practice times.

But most people cannot afford the price tag for college counselors or help with essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

PP here.. Interesting you say that. I lived in both Socal and the Bay Area. Most people, including Asian Americans, recognize that lower income students need a boost. It's the race based affirmative action that they disagree with. Asian Americans as a whole may have higher income than most due to them largely being in the STEM field, but many are children of immigrants who were once lower income.

I will say that those Asian Americans who are recent immigrants and are educated are the ones who probably don't even want SES diversity. These folks have little sympathy for lower income people. IMO, these are the folks who are Trump voters. He also has little sympathy for poor people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

The UCs basically have a giant set of ostensibly race blind parameters which they tweak to get a metric that maximally penalizes Asian students. That's not the UK does

There is literally no comparison. California has a 10% Asian population (Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese, Singaporean, etc etc)

In the UK there's nearly a 10% South East Asian population (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan) but only 500k Chinese people in the entire country.

So, not comparable.

[Anonymous]

California is 17% Asian I believe with all the Asian groups well represented.

UK is almost all South Asian ie roots in the Indian Subcontinent. Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are not Southeast Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

+1 The real issue with US based college admissions is the amount of $$$ parents shell out for college counselors.

Prepping for the SATs is not an issue. You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library. Lots of schools offer free SAT practice times.

But most people cannot afford the price tag for college counselors or help with essays.

So the test prep you can afford is fine but the college counselors you can’t are horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.

Except that nowadays they need to be locked into a “narrative” from the age of 14 to get into one of these elite colleges. If you think teens should have the freedom to explore their interests you should hate everything about the current American admissions process.

Or maybe just stop obsessing about roughly 40 universities and SLACs and attend one of the many other exceptional schools available in the US?

I'm sure rich people with mediocre kids would love that. But the whole point of the thread is to discuss potential changes to the admissions processes at these schools.

The title of the thread is "Would you prefer European-style admissions?" not "Would you prefer European-style admissions? at elite American schools which unlike their European counterparts are Private Institutions"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

The UCs basically have a giant set of ostensibly race blind parameters which they tweak to get a metric that maximally penalizes Asian students. That's not the UK does

That is factually incorrect, the metric penalizes high SES kids from schools with concentrations of high performing students of any race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

The Bay Area has a very large number of immigrants who are very attracted to the top UC schools and are very vocally against anything except gpa/test score for admissions. They feel very put out by the UC admissions process.