Would you prefer European-style admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the US way is fine. It is the anxiety around it that is not fine and makes it seem much worse than it is.

the anxiety is due to the opaque US style of admissions.

The way other countries do it, it's pretty clear cut.

Then why do they try to send so many students here?

Because it's easier to get into uni here than in Europe, and lots of US uni just care about $$$.

[Anonymous]

Prefer the European system. It’s clear what it takes to be admitted. Students can study what they are interested in. My kid wants to lock in, not be a generalist.

Here, each school makes up their own criteria that is unknowable. Holistic admissions is code for we choose who we want in a completely opaque manner. Better develop that “compelling narrative” from an early age. Bleh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the US way is fine. It is the anxiety around it that is not fine and makes it seem much worse than it is.

the anxiety is due to the opaque US style of admissions.

The way other countries do it, it's pretty clear cut.

Then why do they try to send so many students here?

Because it's easier to get into uni here than in Europe, and lots of US uni just care about $$$.

That's not it at all. And by your use of "uni" I wouldn't expect you to be honest about it.

[Anonymous]

My DC applied to both systems this year and the UK and Canadian systems are so much more straightforward.

Effectively, absent being a highly recruited athlete or a development family (potential large donor), students applying to the elite universities have to ED or reduce their chances of acceptance by a significant amount. Without ED, acceptance rates would be higher and likely yield would be slightly lower.

We are very lucky in that my DC got accepted to a top 10 in ED, but they had to give up all other choice to get that. To the extent they worry about managing their enrollment, I do not believe that schools are unable to develop an accurate algorithm for managing RES/EA/RD only admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC applied to both systems this year and the UK and Canadian systems are so much more straightforward.

Effectively, absent being a highly recruited athlete or a development family (potential large donor), students applying to the elite universities have to ED or reduce their chances of acceptance by a significant amount. Without ED, acceptance rates would be higher and likely yield would be slightly lower.

We are very lucky in that my DC got accepted to a top 10 in ED, but they had to give up all other choice to get that. To the extent they worry about managing their enrollment, I do not believe that schools are unable to develop an accurate algorithm for managing RES/EA/RD only admissions.

Not all Canadian college application processes are the same, so you can’t claim the “Canadian” system is easier.

Since all the top UK and Canadian schools are public, you can only really compare to public US schools…but again for Canada you have to distinguish between applying to Toronto vs McGill as examples. Toronto for my kid felt very similar to applying to a UC school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most European countries have a highly centralized, national high school curriculum so the differences in grading and courses is largely eliminated? It seems a necessary predicate to that kind of admissions system

US has APs.

Not nearly the same thing.

Many UK universities treat AP Subject exam results the same as UK A-levels. So those colleges, at least, would say they are close enough.

For limited use for the small percentage of US students applying internationally. As a metric for all students in the US applying to college? Not every school offers APs or the same APs - this is the kind of thing that parents of kids who go to private or rich public schools like because their kid benefits at the expense of others.

AP results are used by UK universities because that is all they have, and they want American students. They know that GPA would be meaningless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prefer the European system. It’s clear what it takes to be admitted. Students can study what they are interested in. My kid wants to lock in, not be a generalist.

Here, each school makes up their own criteria that is unknowable. Holistic admissions is code for we choose who we want in a completely opaque manner. Better develop that “compelling narrative” from an early age. Bleh!

I think this line is evident of why we have our system. It’s not that the US doesn’t want people to go on and do particular jobs, but that the quaternary sector of the economy doesn’t have that many jobs. Even a majority of engineering degree holders don’t go into engineering. Most of the well paying jobs are management positions that require strong technical and professional communication skills, and what our system is trying (and failing) at is getting everyone on a baseline level of communication and expertise across disciplines to excel no matter where they end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t most European countries have a highly centralized, national high school curriculum so the differences in grading and courses is largely eliminated? It seems a necessary predicate to that kind of admissions system

US has APs.

Not nearly the same thing.

Many UK universities treat AP Subject exam results the same as UK A-levels. So those colleges, at least, would say they are close enough.

For limited use for the small percentage of US students applying internationally. As a metric for all students in the US applying to college? Not every school offers APs or the same APs - this is the kind of thing that parents of kids who go to private or rich public schools like because their kid benefits at the expense of others.

AP results are used by UK universities because that is all they have, and they want American students. They know that GPA would be meaningless

UK Universities look at GPA from 9th-12th in detail. I don't know why you think they do not. My kids applied from the US to the Uk and attend now, so we've just been through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC applied to both systems this year and the UK and Canadian systems are so much more straightforward.

Effectively, absent being a highly recruited athlete or a development family (potential large donor), students applying to the elite universities have to ED or reduce their chances of acceptance by a significant amount. Without ED, acceptance rates would be higher and likely yield would be slightly lower.

We are very lucky in that my DC got accepted to a top 10 in ED, but they had to give up all other choice to get that. To the extent they worry about managing their enrollment, I do not believe that schools are unable to develop an accurate algorithm for managing RES/EA/RD only admissions.

Not all Canadian college application processes are the same, so you can’t claim the “Canadian” system is easier.

Since all the top UK and Canadian schools are public, you can only really compare to public US schools…but again for Canada you have to distinguish between applying to Toronto vs McGill as examples. Toronto for my kid felt very similar to applying to a UC school.

The Oxford application also includes essays, a LOR, a test, and an interview. Even so, it was much more straightforward than the US system, felt less dependent on “soft” aspects, and I appreciated the lack of ED to get a higher chance. They do limit students to choosing either Oxford or Cambridge, you cannot apply to both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For STEM, yes.

In my opinion, yes for everything

+1 Weed out weak students earlier and encourage trade/vocational schools. Stop the nonsense that everyone can do college level academic work.

[Anonymous]

Not everyone is college material. The EU recognizes that, and provides off-ramps for those for whom college is not the best destination.

Instead we let people go into massive debt for useless degrees. The US needs to drop the fallacy of equal outcomes for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is college material. The EU recognizes that, and provides off-ramps for those for whom college is not the best destination.

Instead we let people go into massive debt for useless degrees. The US needs to drop the fallacy of equal outcomes for all.

+1 seriously!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many complain about managing all the factors in US college admissions. Academics, athletics, ECs, and more.

Would you prefer European style admissions where only academics (includes school work/grades and either ACT/SAT, and AP Subject Test results (not the number if AP classes or which AP classes were taken) matter??

Either is fine. Mine would have gotten into Ivy/T10 under that system too, maybe more of them in fact

[Anonymous]

It would only work if there is a standard national curriculum with the same tests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a majority of engineering degree holders don’t go into engineering.

I find the above very difficult to believe.

Source?