UVA and 4 years of foreign language

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop saying “4 years of language” when you mean “language in senior year.”

Many stop after junior year with 5 years of HS credit. I’m the “5 ppl” poster and it’s common at our HS to stop before senior year. And yes, my child knows many people from her sport and/or choir who are now at UVA who didn’t take language senior year. How does she know? She asked.

I feel like people who are saying “4 years of a foreign language” mean exactly what they say. Not whatever you are imagining they mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is wild that this thread is dragging on.

Fact: UVA says that it would like to see max rigor

Fact: UVA has said many times (both on website and through Dean J) that they would like to see four years of a foreign language

Fact: If you go to UVA in A&S, by the time you graduate you will have to show language competency either through an upper level class, AP credit or testing

Probably a fact: You can get in with fewer than four years of foreign language (some anonymous person knows at least five people's course load somehow from one HS). Unknown how much this hurts your application and if other things are needed to overcome a lack of language proficiency.

If you want to put yourself in the best position for UVA (and a lot of other schools), just take four years of language. It's not that hard. If you didn't take four years, you can still apply and you might get in.

+1, yes to all of the above.

The intense competition among NOVA families to achieve a perceived (to them) entitlement, e.g. a slot at the state public flagship, which is frequently denied due to said intense competition leads to posters on this site spouting off truisms about UVA.

The "rule" about 4 years of a single foreign language is a best practice, but not a necessity.

Our own FCPS DC had 2 years of a foreign language in MS, 2 years in HS and stopped. This was the equivalent of 3 years of that foreign language. DC then took up another foreign language for 2 years. So, not 4 years of a single foreign language, and definitely not AP level.

DC was accepted EA into CAS, and is now taking a third foreign language to satisfy the language requirement. DC's not happy about that, but likes the class and the teacher.

I agree with other posters who emphasize the rigor of the core subjects. DC took AP US History, AP World History, AP Government, AP Calculus AB, and perhaps importantly for DC's candidacy, IMHO, AP Lang. DC did not take APs in science except Environmental Science. DC did not have all As in those subjects, and in fact had Bs in most of them. But DC took the classes, demonstrating rigor. In our little example, Bs in AP courses > As in honors courses.

FYI, we are not hooked in any way, and in fact are Asian (the "anti-hook").

This worked for our DC. Will it work for your DC? Perhaps, perhaps not. But I post our own one-person example to show that the process is not rigid; it definitely can get arbitrary.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop saying “4 years of language” when you mean “language in senior year.”

Many stop after junior year with 5 years of HS credit. I’m the “5 ppl” poster and it’s common at our HS to stop before senior year. And yes, my child knows many people from her sport and/or choir who are now at UVA who didn’t take language senior year. How does she know? She asked.

I feel like people who are saying “4 years of a foreign language” mean exactly what they say. Not whatever you are imagining they mean.

Well then that’s not “highest rigor” which at many schools would be 6 years of foreign language. So it can’t be both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

It’s not just Dean J. All of the very top schools want to see maximum rigor in core subjects and that includes foreign language. If you intend to apply to an Ivy or top SLAC, this is what you do. Remember the top schools then have their own foreign language requirement for their own undergraduates. They are dead serious about raising citizens of the world who will have to increasingly deal in world affairs in multiple languages..

+1. Here’s a CollegeVine breakdown- e.g. 4 years required for Princeton; 4 years recommended for a Harvard application, etc. CV’s overall recommendation is to go with 4 years if you think you may apply to any of these top schools. https://blog.collegevine.com/foreign-language-requirements-for-college-admissions#:~:text=Most%20colleges%20want%20to%20see,have%20foreign%20language%20requirements%2C%20too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

Why are you acting like UVA is an outlier in not considering it a core subject? Like one UVA AO made up a rule when it’s common knowledge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

Why are you acting like UVA is an outlier in not considering it a core subject? Like one UVA AO made up a rule when it’s common knowledge?

When I said DeanJ - I meant that she's the face of the UVA AOs. When you say outlier - sort of. Decades ago - I read the application material:
For UT Austin, it said more or less: don't apply unless you got the chops to get in.
For Berkeley it read: we take chances even if you are not fully baked.

I'd hope UVA's spokes person was more Berkeley than Austin. This is as a Virginian that wants our flagship to be world class. The "not fully baked" ones are the ones that change the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

Why are you acting like UVA is an outlier in not considering it a core subject? Like one UVA AO made up a rule when it’s common knowledge?

When I said DeanJ - I meant that she's the face of the UVA AOs. When you say outlier - sort of. Decades ago - I read the application material:
For UT Austin, it said more or less: don't apply unless you got the chops to get in.
For Berkeley it read: we take chances even if you are not fully baked.

I'd hope UVA's spokes person was more Berkeley than Austin. This is as a Virginian that wants our flagship to be world class. The "not fully baked" ones are the ones that change the world.

What did you read decades ago that is relevant in today’s college admissions?

We need more of these competitive colleges to be honest about what makes you successful in their admissions. UVA is better than most in explaining the particulars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To be clear, I never said taking a language all four years was a “requirement.” I said not taking one was not a “good look.” And that’s what Dean J’s October post confirms.

Still disagree.

SEAS students get away with not taking 4 years of FL. Anyone saying it's not a problem for Arts and Sciences is kidding themselves. If UVA is your student's dream school, it is a big mistake to not take 4 years of FL and not to take APUSH if you are from NoVa.

My UVA student did take 4 years of FL. Did NOT take APUSH. They were clearly a stem kid and focused on that while also taking high rigor across the board, just not APUSH. There is always an exception I guess, maybe this is where the holistic admissions really plays in.

Why skip APUSH?

It’s not needed. Furthermore it’s a big risk for getting a bad grade on account of how hard it is.

Your kid wants to attend UVA in 8 Mos and worried about the difficulty of a HS class?

+1. Plus UVA has its own foreign language requirement for undergrads not innSTEM

Only Engineering and Nursing are excepted from the foreign language requirement. UVa requires foreign language for all undergrad students in Arts & Sciences -- including for math and science degrees (example: Physics).

I believe you can test out of all or part of UVA’s foreign language requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To be clear, I never said taking a language all four years was a “requirement.” I said not taking one was not a “good look.” And that’s what Dean J’s October post confirms.

Still disagree.

SEAS students get away with not taking 4 years of FL. Anyone saying it's not a problem for Arts and Sciences is kidding themselves. If UVA is your student's dream school, it is a big mistake to not take 4 years of FL and not to take APUSH if you are from NoVa.

My UVA student did take 4 years of FL. Did NOT take APUSH. They were clearly a stem kid and focused on that while also taking high rigor across the board, just not APUSH. There is always an exception I guess, maybe this is where the holistic admissions really plays in.

Why skip APUSH?

It’s not needed. Furthermore it’s a big risk for getting a bad grade on account of how hard it is.

Your kid wants to attend UVA in 8 Mos and worried about the difficulty of a HS class?

+1. Plus UVA has its own foreign language requirement for undergrads not innSTEM

Only Engineering and Nursing are excepted from the foreign language requirement. UVa requires foreign language for all undergrad students in Arts & Sciences -- including for math and science degrees (example: Physics).

I believe you can test out of all or part of UVA’s foreign language requirement.

So you didn’t even make it to page 2 of the thread.

Round and round we go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

It’s not just Dean J. All of the very top schools want to see maximum rigor in core subjects and that includes foreign language. If you intend to apply to an Ivy or top SLAC, this is what you do. Remember the top schools then have their own foreign language requirement for their own undergraduates. They are dead serious about raising citizens of the world who will have to increasingly deal in world affairs in multiple languages..

My kid got into a top SLAC without taking a language jr and sr year. Loaded up with APs in all other areas and very heavy math and science. Worked out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just wondering.

DD is a native speaker of Spanish but took 4 years of HS Spanish, including the AP class. Is this gonna be counted against her by the UVA?

Even if UVA would count that against DD, DD was smart to take Spanish in high school.

Speaking a language fluently is great, but most people who want to use a mother tongue at a university or a good employer need to take some classes in that language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some students skip APUSH so they can focus on their AP Physics and AP Calc BC that year. Just saying that the whole course load tells the story, not a single course.

Depends on your HS. My kid skipped an AP in a core subject and got waitlisted. 3.98/4.5, 1560-engineering. I'm sure the accepted students from his high achieving public were all taking 4-5 APs junior year.

I agree. I have heard Dean J say several times they want highest rigor in all courses because you don’t really know what their major will be at this age. Need to show depth.

I asked Dean J about AP CS - she said that isn't core; according to her it's an elective. They want highest rigor in core. She looked hesitant when I hinted at compensating: APUSH with AP CS(and higher) with a lot more AP Sciences. This is for a STEM major. You have to choose where to put your time right?

I don't agree with DeanJ but you wanna play ball - her rules.

Why are you acting like UVA is an outlier in not considering it a core subject? Like one UVA AO made up a rule when it’s common knowledge?

When I said DeanJ - I meant that she's the face of the UVA AOs. When you say outlier - sort of. Decades ago - I read the application material:
For UT Austin, it said more or less: don't apply unless you got the chops to get in.
For Berkeley it read: we take chances even if you are not fully baked.

I'd hope UVA's spokes person was more Berkeley than Austin. This is as a Virginian that wants our flagship to be world class. The "not fully baked" ones are the ones that change the world.

NOTHING should be more “Berkeley.” Ugh.