Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

At this point, Israel has more power to end the deliberate starvation in Gaza than Hamas does to end the war.

I hope you’re prepared to think deeply about the tactics you’re so ardently defending as Elul approaches. The fact that the war started in response to Hamas’s atrocities does not make Israel’s own atrocities any more moral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

Murdering children tends to harm the soul. And that’s what they’re doing. All on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

He never did. That's why the old trope of "bring home the hostages and the war ends" is so dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Israel's soul has always been built on ethnic cleansing and supremacy over the native population. You are deluding yourself to believe otherwise.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

BRAVO!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Israel is the ONLY[u] one committing genocide and mass starvation. Funded by our US dollars. There is no excuse, there is no whataboutism. You're a horrible human.

Hamas is starving the remaining hostages and making propaganda videos of them being forced to dig their own graves. So, no, Israel isn't the "only one" starving people and the only thing stopping them from mass genocide of their own is the Iron Dome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

He never did. That's why the old trope of "bring home the hostages and the war ends" is so dishonest.

Bringing the hostages home would make most of the remaining (dwindling) Israeli support for the war disappear. And most of the American Jewish support as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

Murdering children tends to harm the soul. And that’s what they’re doing. All on their own.

But why put the blame entirely on Israel? Not that I want to quibble over 60-40 or 80-20 or whatever, but Gazans weren't living in rubble without water before Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

He never did. That's why the old trope of "bring home the hostages and the war ends" is so dishonest.

Bringing the hostages home would make most of the remaining (dwindling) Israeli support for the war disappear. And most of the American Jewish support as well.

Exactly. Bibi is all too happy to keep this going and kill as many Palestinians as he can. On our dime too. DISGUSTING

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

Murdering children tends to harm the soul. And that’s what they’re doing. All on their own.

But why put the blame entirely on Israel? Not that I want to quibble over 60-40 or 80-20 or whatever, but Gazans weren't living in rubble without water before Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.

Huh? Why NOT put the blame ENTIRELY on the people murdering children? Israel kills an average of 28 palestinian children per day. We are approaching 20,000 dead children. You trying to justify that by a terrorist group attacking 1,200 people and saying 20,000 dead kids are equivalent is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

Murdering children tends to harm the soul. And that’s what they’re doing. All on their own.

But why put the blame entirely on Israel? Not that I want to quibble over 60-40 or 80-20 or whatever, but Gazans weren't living in rubble without water before Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.

Huh? Why NOT put the blame ENTIRELY on the people murdering children? Israel kills an average of 28 palestinian children per day. We are approaching 20,000 dead children. You trying to justify that by a terrorist group attacking 1,200 people and saying 20,000 dead kids are equivalent is disgusting.

First, I didn't draw any equivalency. I would love to beat all of our swords into ploughshares and live in peace. Hamas provoking Israel to war and not taking any steps to protect its civilian population (by not placing military tunnels under civilian centers or by releasing the hostages) has to put some percentage of the blame on Hamas. You could say it's 95% Israel and 5% Hamas - again, I don't care to argue percentages. I just don't think it's realistic or fair to say it's all on Israel. And to bring it back to religion, since that's our forum, Judaism has a lot to say about redeeming captives. The lengths the Jewish community can/should go to rescue a person held captive by enemies is an ongoing, centuries-long debate in Jewish thought, since the time Abraham saved Lot.

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"Hamas offered twice in writing as early as August 24 to release all the "hostages" and not to govern Gaza, Israel said no."

- Israeli hostage negotiator, Gershon Baskin.

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Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Israel is the ONLY[u] one committing genocide and mass starvation. Funded by our US dollars. There is no excuse, there is no whataboutism. You're a horrible human.

Hamas is starving the remaining hostages and making propaganda videos of them being forced to dig their own graves. So, no, Israel isn't the "only one" starving people and the only thing stopping them from mass genocide of their own is the Iron Dome.

And who is the one unwilling to negotiate for the hostages? And said they were of no priority to them?

You can blame Hamas all you want, but Hamas cares more about the hostages than Israel. That is a fact. Israel doesn't give a shit about them. Israel never cared about the hostages, because they were never of any value to them or their plan.