Compacted math going away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue really is that 2nd and 3rd grade math is ridiculously slow. This means many kids are bored and parents are clamoring to get them in compacted. If they were more challenged in those earlier years they would be happier, with more in depth work. The progression could then be slowed in middle school. Spend more time on some of the tougher concepts.

+100. This. Elementary math (compacted or not) is far too easy. But it's rushed in middle/high school when they need to go deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Not totally true. Once kids get to algebra it’s hard to have an off-ramp prior to Calc without repeating a class. I had my kid repeat Algebra 1 since took it over Covid and as a STEM person I could tell he did not 100% grasp the material. Classmates commented on how he was no longer in the highest class. This is a kid with 97% MAPM scores so he’s not stupid but is way better off on a path to Calculus senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Framing solves that issue: “Stacy, I know you’re bored in Hon Algebra I. This summer, you can take Geometry and go to Hon Algebra II in the Fall.”

As parents, we are supposed to have them do what is best for them, not just their preference. We make sure they drink water instead of soda all day long. Six weeks of summer school so they aren’t bored the next three years is a reasonable parenting decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Framing solves that issue: “Stacy, I know you’re bored in Hon Algebra I. This summer, you can take Geometry and go to Hon Algebra II in the Fall.”

As parents, we are supposed to have them do what is best for them, not just their preference. We make sure they drink water instead of soda all day long. Six weeks of summer school so they aren’t bored the next three years is a reasonable parenting decision...

...when the school system doesn't provide a reasonable alternative. But MCPS does provide such alternatives, and is right in doing so.

Why make summer school the route kids have to take instead of offering acceleration and doing a good job of identifying kids needing that? Even math-eager Stacys are not likely to be thrilled with the former, no matter how it's framed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://mathacademy.com is a bit extreme, but they've got classes with poor brown kids passing AP Calc exams on 8th and 9th grade.

This sounds interesting but I just don’t want more screens for the kid. He is already on it too much.

The problem is probably what he’s doing in the screens, not the total time. Reduce his free time which is probably YouTube and games.

A friend has her son’s homework and enrichment cast to the big tv in their living room. It’s amazing how much faster he works now that his parents can see everything. That freed an hour for enrichment.

Omg that's actually brilliant. I may do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Not totally true. Once kids get to algebra it’s hard to have an off-ramp prior to Calc without repeating a class. I had my kid repeat Algebra 1 since took it over Covid and as a STEM person I could tell he did not 100% grasp the material. Classmates commented on how he was no longer in the highest class. This is a kid with 97% MAPM scores so he’s not stupid but is way better off on a path to Calculus senior year.

Pandemic effect on learning was horrible, and I'm sorry it hit your son and many others at that particularly critical level. There were students for whom there was a less impactful effect, and having the acceleration available to them was important in keeping them engaged in the subject and learning, altogether. I think you made the right move with the repeat, given the circumstances. That classmates looked down on the situation says more about them and a push-too-much-because-its-the-way-to-stand-out culture than it does about your son. Though I hate hearing this when it's used by MCPS as a red herring to insinuate that not meeting a student's need won't wreck their future, I really think "He'll be fine." applies in this case -- he clearly got what he needed out of the repeat, he's at the top of standardized testing and there will be plenty of opportunity to pursue more advanced subject matter at the college level.

However, the discussion/evaluation of what might be good going forward should not be based on the expectation of that societal experience repeating. Providing basic education was a challenge, and finding where students were across the board with any sort of fidelity was just about impossible. Now that we have been through it, though, it might help us arrive at better contingency planning/mitigations should similar disruption ever occur.

What can we aim for now? While the Alg 1 -> Geo -> Alg 2 -> PreCalc -> Calc path is the de-facto standard, I'd suggest there are better ways to deal with the concern of being too early in that than by removing early acceleration options. High-fidelity identification of ability/interest and better management/communication of of the on- & off-ramps would be a start. That could better evidence a need for some to slow down in middle school while allowing those absorbing well to continue the acceleration. Looking at a Prob/Stats (not AP Stats) option sometime between Algebra and PreCalc (not being so concerned about the strict progression) could help a bit later. Stretching Calc into AB and BC years works at the end. Not perfect, but far better than axing options for those who need them.

[Anonymous]

Reviving this dead thread to see if they actually killed compacted math. Did anyone get any 3rd grade parents receive letters or information about their child doing compacted math for next year? We received a letter about our child doing ELC but nothing about compacted math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reviving this dead thread to see if they actually killed compacted math. Did anyone get any 3rd grade parents receive letters or information about their child doing compacted math for next year? We received a letter about our child doing ELC but nothing about compacted math

Ask the Math Specialist, but they usually don't make the CM call until much later in the year, if not the summer. I haven't heard this year of its going away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reviving this dead thread to see if they actually killed compacted math. Did anyone get any 3rd grade parents receive letters or information about their child doing compacted math for next year? We received a letter about our child doing ELC but nothing about compacted math

We didn’t get a letter for my current third grader but my older son’s didn’t come until school was out so that tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reviving this dead thread to see if they actually killed compacted math. Did anyone get any 3rd grade parents receive letters or information about their child doing compacted math for next year? We received a letter about our child doing ELC but nothing about compacted math

I heard they offer Compacted to 1st graders at WPES.

[Anonymous]

Letter for us came after school let out to prevent parents lobbying the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reviving this dead thread to see if they actually killed compacted math. Did anyone get any 3rd grade parents receive letters or information about their child doing compacted math for next year? We received a letter about our child doing ELC but nothing about compacted math

You get the ELC letter earlier because it's bundled with the magnet lottery which has to be early because students need to decide if they are changing schools to go to magnet. There's no 4th grade math magnet so no need to rush decisions before the end of the year.

[Anonymous]

MCPS offers 2 year Algebra 2, which is basically the same as repeating Algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS offers 2 year Algebra 2, which is basically the same as repeating Algebra 1.

Anti-compacted math.