My ex instructs our daughter to lie to me and hide things that have happened

[Anonymous]

Has this happened to any of you? What to you do? It's obviously distressing to my daughter, who has stopped sharing anything, even about her day at school. I've told him that this is a bad strategy considering that some day we'll need her to be honest about us regarding whether an adult is treating her inappropriately and about where she is on a weekend night. He denies that he's telling her to lie, even though it's pretty obvious-- and he lies too, and I catch him in it. He also believes that I either would do the same or actually am doing the same, but that's not the case. There's nothing that goes on between me and my daughter that I wouldn't be happy to describe to anyone. I'm a good parent.

My divorce agreement does not specify that we can't tell her to lie, but it seems to be implicit in good parenting. Is there anything I can do?

[Anonymous]

How old is your DD? At some ages they stop sharing so much for developmental reasons because they start identifying more with peers, say at 6-7+. Is it possible that that is why she isn't talking about her day? Do her friends tell their parents about school? That might be a good benchmark.

Is there any provision in your agreement that if there is a parenting dispute that you will joinly consult a child psychologist for advice? The consult might be worth it for you anyway.

What kind of things is he having her lie about - are we talking candy or that he takes her to adult parties?

I'm sorry, this must be very stressful. Is your divorce recent? Have you talked to your lawyer?

[Anonymous]

I had the same problem, OP. I don't want to reveal myself by sharing details, but it was quite obvious that DC's father was telling them to lie. And yes, it is unconscionable to teach a child to lie, and idiotic in this day and age to teach them to keep something from their parents -- either parent. I always tell my DC, "If anyone tells you not to tell your mommy something, that means they are doing something wrong." Good luck. It is horrible to deal with a parent like that. Horrible.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes my son talks more openly to my sisters or mom than me, usually about things regarding his dad or feelings about his dad that he thinks I can't "handle". Is there a possibility one of your dd's aunts or grandparent on your side can talk to her to see what's going on? She might open up more to a third party.

FWIW, I found that my son opens up to me more when we're sitting side by side focusing on something else; doing a puzzle, or playing a game, or even driving in the car. There's something about avoiding direct eye contact and having your hands busy that seems to loosen up kids' tongues!

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Is there anything that a mom can DO in a situation like this? If you get a counselor who determines that this is truly the situation, can you make a case to end or change visitation? Get a judge to order that the dad stop doing this to the kid?

[Anonymous]

OP here. DD is 5 and a half. She is one to shut down and not give news but since he started this, it's gotten worse. I know that he's telling her not to tell me certain things or to give me the wrong answers because she once told me so. It's largely about who is caring for her, who picks her up at school on "his" days. Once it was worse-- he went out of state and left her with his mother who was visiting from out of state. But he'd told me that his mother was visiting and he needed extra custodial time so that they could all be together. I know for a fact that she doens't know the doctor's name or the insurance information. The reason I found out is that my daughter let it slip-- she showed me something he'd brought back from his trip, then told me she'd been alone with grandma, then confessed that he'd told her to keep a secret. There have been many times since then. Unfortunately, once I got so angry in front of her-- and explained it wasn't about her but angry at others-- that she is even more closed-lipped. I know, not a good thing on my part. It just gets really difficult hearing about things my daughter has done from other people. Recently I learned from another parent at school that this relative picks my daughter up on all of "his" days. I had offered to pick her up every day and bring her to him because I work from home, but he first insisted on after care and then when she didn't like it, told me that he would be picking her up. Turns out that someone else does, and that he has this arrangement just so I can't see her for two hours on his custodial days (and she misses me, and it's a big deal persuading her tho cheer up on the days she's changing houses). I found it out from a parent who was making play dates with the other party and was caught completely off guard. Turns out that my daughter had been coached to lie about that too.

In answer to your next question, yes he is a total jackass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DD is 5 and a half. She is one to shut down and not give news but since he started this, it's gotten worse. I know that he's telling her not to tell me certain things or to give me the wrong answers because she once told me so. It's largely about who is caring for her, who picks her up at school on "his" days. Once it was worse-- he went out of state and left her with his mother who was visiting from out of state. But he'd told me that his mother was visiting and he needed extra custodial time so that they could all be together. I know for a fact that she doens't know the doctor's name or the insurance information. The reason I found out is that my daughter let it slip-- she showed me something he'd brought back from his trip, then told me she'd been alone with grandma, then confessed that he'd told her to keep a secret. There have been many times since then. Unfortunately, once I got so angry in front of her-- and explained it wasn't about her but angry at others-- that she is even more closed-lipped. I know, not a good thing on my part. It just gets really difficult hearing about things my daughter has done from other people. Recently I learned from another parent at school that this relative picks my daughter up on all of "his" days. I had offered to pick her up every day and bring her to him because I work from home, but he first insisted on after care and then when she didn't like it, told me that he would be picking her up. Turns out that someone else does, and that he has this arrangement just so I can't see her for two hours on his custodial days (and she misses me, and it's a big deal persuading her tho cheer up on the days she's changing houses). I found it out from a parent who was making play dates with the other party and was caught completely off guard. Turns out that my daughter had been coached to lie about that too.

In answer to your next question, yes he is a total jackass.

Who fills out the forms telling the school who is permitted to pick her up? Is this other person who is picking her up from school on the "pickup" list? Who has legal custody -- i.e. gets to make decisions about school, etc.) If you have sole legal custody, I would fax the school and tell them politely that it has come to your attention that someone has been picking your daughter up who is not on the authorized list. Consult a lawyer if need be to make sure you have the authority on this.

I don't, however, understand your comment about the transition -- are you saying that on a day when your daughter is to go home after school to her father's house that a relative of his picks her up and takes her to his house, and that you would prefer that she come to your house for two hours on his custody day and that the father pick her up from your house? Is that logistically sensible? Wouldn't that also provide an extra transition for her to adjust to -- school, you, him instead of school, him? What is your objection to this other relative?

Some couples have a "right of first refusal" written into the custody agreement. This means that whenever one parent can't spend their parenting time with a child, they must tell the other parent and give the other parent the opportunity to have that time instead. So, no babysitters, no new girlfriends, no relatives sitting for kids while mom/dad is out on their custody time. Depending on circumstances, this could be good or very difficult to manage logistically.

I would definitely begin keeping a log of the days/times when your ex says he will be with child and instead you know that she has been with a third party. A lawyer can help you decide if that warrants asking for change of custody/visitation pattern.

In no circumstances can you get angry about this in front of your daughter -- neither explicitly nor thru your body language. You are teaching your daughter as much about lying as your husband is by telling her to lie. She is complying with her father's directive to lie in part because the truth triggers an angry reaction in you. Your emotional reaction tells her you are not a safe person to tell the truth to. That is the same now as in high school. Do you want her to tell you the truth when she's having sex or is pregnant or failed a class? She will do so if she knows you won't explode. We teach our kids to tell the truth both by our example of doing so even when it's not in our interest AND by our example of how we handle unpleasant truths. There is a difference between hearing an unpleasant truth and pretending its ok and hearing an unpleasant truth and being calm even though it's not OK. Be cooler and smarter than that.

[Anonymous]

Get language that requires you to know where she is at all times and also try and negotiate, perhaps with a parent coordinator, things like pickups. What's your ideal? Would she come to your place and he'd pick up later? Any contact with a child this age might get complicated if she has trouble separating from you and might not want to leave. (We tried this with DC but it didn't work until DC got older, DC went to afterschool starting at age five.) Also see if your ex will do some coparenting sessions. Your daughter is being put in the middle, he should be open about what happens if it involves her, you should all be free to discuss what the arrangements are.

[Anonymous]

She is complying with her father's directive to lie in part because the truth triggers an angry reaction in you

Otherwise good advice, but this isn't accurate. She's complying with her father's directive to lie because he punishes and threatens her when she doesn't do what he wants. When I got angry, I didn't kick and scream. I said "I'm really angry that your father didn't tell me where you were." You are so far off of the truth with that one, and it's really hurtful.

I am the only person that the child trusts at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She is complying with her father's directive to lie in part because the truth triggers an angry reaction in you

Otherwise good advice, but this isn't accurate. She's complying with her father's directive to lie because he punishes and threatens her when she doesn't do what he wants. When I got angry, I didn't kick and scream. I said "I'm really angry that your father didn't tell me where you were." You are so far off of the truth with that one, and it's really hurtful.

I am the only person that the child trusts at this point.

Agree, that was totally off the mark. It's okay to get angry -- it's human. It's okay to get angry when someone is lying. Lying is wrong. It's bad.

[Anonymous]

when one parent tells a child to purposely lie, or hide issues or problems from the other parent, and it is a form of abuse it is called "parental alienation syndrome" and can get the children taken from the parent who is telling the children to lie to the other in almost all 50 states.

[Anonymous]

This is not parental alienation syndrome.
This is not great and should be stopped. That said, thank goodness he's not asking her to lie to cover up something worse.
The weekend he went out of town: Pretty outrageous. You need right of first refusal language for situations like that.
As for afterschool: I found at this age that my son appreciated seeing me after school before dad got home from work (I am a WFH mom too) but make sure the transition is not disruptive. It worked for us.
Will he work with a parent coordinator? The is putting your daughter in an unfortunate bind.

[Anonymous]

13:58 again. What's your child's schedule and was there discord around it before this came to light? He may be asking her to lie because parental availability is a criterion for shared custody. How much time is there between his getting home and her bedtime?

[Anonymous]

This is very dangerous. I remember a story my nurse mother told about a child that was taken on an African safari by Dad but told to keep it a secret from Mom b/c there was a money battle going on. Child got malaria but when mom was asked if very sick feverish child had been traveling out of the U.S. mom said no. Docs didn't figure out it was malaria until too late (honestly, I don't remember if the end of the story is that the child died).

Obviously this is extreme, but you can imagine scenarios that could be similarly dangerous.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry this seems so common, but glad I'm not alone. My ex tells my son to keep secrets and lie to me, everything from insignificant things to very significant occurances. The most recent telling my son not to tell me that he and his wife were going on vacation M-F. (I found out through her ex) He's supposed to pick him up on Tues. and I'm sure he's waiting till tues. afternoon to send me a text telling me to go pick up our son. Which of course I'd do at a drop of a hat. My problem with this is that he is teaching our son to lie and it creates anxiety for him. Not only does he know he's lying, he's also unsure of who's picking him up! Long story short, when I asked my son if his Dad was picking him up from school or am I. He said, I don't know, my Dad? I ended up sending him to his room for lying and made it clear that was why he was in trouble, not for anything else. I know he's being manipulated by his Dad and probably just doing this as a coping mechanism. I don't want to send him the message that it's ok to be dishonest but then again, I know he's trying to just cope.?