Case Western or UMD for engineering

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

Ditto at our high school. It was off-putting to my high stats kid. If Case had offered huge merit, my kid might have gone there, but my kid just rejected the wait list, so we'll never know.

Same, just a huge turnoff. Mine got an offer of merit from the waitlist but then rejected the waitlist on their first silly weekly check-in. I'd be wary of sending my kid to a place that is so into rankings that they across the board accept lower stats kids. Before anyone makes an accusation of sour grapes, someone posted data on this from a HS in California at some point.

They don't "across the board accept lower stats kids". They do what all schools do---they attempt to determine who will actually attend if given an offer of admission. Fact is many kids with a 35/36 ACT and 1550+ SAT are also applying to T20 schools---so if Case thinks they will get into one of those, then they might not offer a spot unless you have shown huge demonstrated interest. It's what all school in the 25-50 range do. Their goal is to fill their class and calculate yield, not offer spots to kids who want to go elsewhere and will likely get in elsewhere.

That's all rather shady, yes? Other than visiting (privilege) you are at their mercy on how they track DI. Given the demand for T20 schools it's bold to assume these kids are getting in there either.

If they offer admission to everyone who applies with the 1550+/3.9+UW and 90 % of those kids do not accept, then case has missed out on offering admission to those kids who actually WANT to attend (say in the 1400-1450 range). Because those kids will get admitted elsewhere and get excited about their other schools, accept one by May 1 and move on. So how is it Shady to want to select the students who will actually attend? It's not Shady. That's exactly what college admissions is. It's even done a bit at the T25 level---as in, someone who applies to all 8 Ivies likely has no interest in over half of them. They are all very different schools and someone with Harvard as a best fit is not likely to think Cornell is also a best fit (don't know all the comparisions---my kids were not into ivies). So even a 1600/4.0UW and perfect resume kid has to show why Harvard is for them---if Harvard isn't feeling like they are really the best choice, they will assume the kid is gonna attend another Ivy/T25 and they might WL them or reject them.
It's quite simple that many in the 25-50 range know they are "2nd/3rd/4th/5th choices" for many top students. So they attempt to determine who is a 1st/2nd choice and offer them admission. Their goal is to fill their class by May 1, not need to go to the WL for 50%+ of their class. Case will even offer EA students a chance to change to ED2, and give them they financials and merit first. So if your Tippy Top student really wants case, they can demonstrate that by switching to ED2 and get their acceptance. Otherwise, they get deferred to RD and likely rejected or WL because the school is 99% certain they are not going to attend.

You just want to have all the options to reject 15 schools yourself. But the school's goal is to garner a certain yield. So you both want to play games---it's called the college admission process.

They are guessing who wants to attend. If they really want to know who is interested they should have a why us essay.

PP that is a pointless exercise. My high stat DC wrote 14 why us essays out of 20+ schools she applied to. All were well thought out. 5 of those schools put her on waitlist and the rest rejected her. She got off from 2 of the waitlists (both ranked higher than Case) and then decided to decline those offers and ended up accepting Case which did not ask her to write a why us essay.

+1000

Smart kids should be able to explain why 20+ schools are their top choice. Not that hard

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

This admission cycle my NOVA kid chose CS at UMD ($10k merit per year) over Case engineering ($30k) as well as BU ($25k), Lehigh ($30k) WM ($0), Ohio St. ($16.5k), UMN ($25k) and Pitt ($0). Really enjoyed our visit. He was deferred to RD from EA. He was bitter about the deferral. He would have liked to get out of the DMV, but think he made the smart choice.

I agree. CWRU might have been an option for my kid too but the deferral crossed them off.

I don't understand the "deferral crossed them off"? If you kid wanted to go and would have accepted in EA, what was the "better offer" from a RD school that swayed them?
It's not like they were Waitlisted--that I can understand. After May 1 most kids move on

I was the first poster that chose UMD, with my kid it was an ego thing. Thought he was being a bit sensitive. Oh well.

(except nursing obviously because you must start on day 1 to get thru in 4 years).

Isn't that true for engineering as well?

No, it is completely open. You don't have to declare a major till you are a junior and you can choose and do multiple majors in whichever school you want.

That usually happens in a major that is not impacted, which means it's not that popular there. You could not do that in an impacted major.

Take it from an alum and 2 kids at case that is not the case. You can apply as a psychology major and graduate as a chemical engineer or something else. It happens at Case all the time. But they will weed you out if you are not prepared. For example, some may go there to pursue premed but weeded out after struggling with organic chemistry. Same goes for engineering. At the end everyone finds what they are good at and pursue that.

yes, but is chemical engineer an impacted major at Case ? That was the point. Impacted majors don't let you transfer in unless there is room, and you pass the prereqs.

You apparently have reading comprehension problems.

There are NO IMPACTED Majors at Case--except nursing where you must apply directly and be admitted before enrolling (they start clinical first year---you cannot jump in late, not possible).

THat's why people love smaller schools like Case---they care about the students and let you get the education YOU WANT!
My kid can pick any engineering or CS they want, or any other major or minor or whatever.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

This admission cycle my NOVA kid chose CS at UMD ($10k merit per year) over Case engineering ($30k) as well as BU ($25k), Lehigh ($30k) WM ($0), Ohio St. ($16.5k), UMN ($25k) and Pitt ($0). Really enjoyed our visit. He was deferred to RD from EA. He was bitter about the deferral. He would have liked to get out of the DMV, but think he made the smart choice.

I agree. CWRU might have been an option for my kid too but the deferral crossed them off.

I don't understand the "deferral crossed them off"? If you kid wanted to go and would have accepted in EA, what was the "better offer" from a RD school that swayed them?
It's not like they were Waitlisted--that I can understand. After May 1 most kids move on

I was the first poster that chose UMD, with my kid it was an ego thing. Thought he was being a bit sensitive. Oh well.

(except nursing obviously because you must start on day 1 to get thru in 4 years).

Isn't that true for engineering as well?

No, it is completely open. You don't have to declare a major till you are a junior and you can choose and do multiple majors in whichever school you want.

That usually happens in a major that is not impacted, which means it's not that popular there. You could not do that in an impacted major.

Do you not get that once you leave huge state schools, largely there are NO IMPACTED MAJORS. THat's why it is one of the HUGE BENEFITS of attending a Case/RPI/WPI/RIT/etc You CAN major in whatever the hell you want. There is no more competition to try and get the major you want, then have to settle for "what has space". Many schools in the 5-10K range have NO IMPACTED MAJORS. Anyone can decide to major in Comp Sci---not just the 1% who were admitted to it.

Do you not get that THAT WAS NOT MY POINT, and that you don't need to post in ALL CAPS because you feel OFFENDED.

sheesh

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

This admission cycle my NOVA kid chose CS at UMD ($10k merit per year) over Case engineering ($30k) as well as BU ($25k), Lehigh ($30k) WM ($0), Ohio St. ($16.5k), UMN ($25k) and Pitt ($0). Really enjoyed our visit. He was deferred to RD from EA. He was bitter about the deferral. He would have liked to get out of the DMV, but think he made the smart choice.

I agree. CWRU might have been an option for my kid too but the deferral crossed them off.

I don't understand the "deferral crossed them off"? If you kid wanted to go and would have accepted in EA, what was the "better offer" from a RD school that swayed them?
It's not like they were Waitlisted--that I can understand. After May 1 most kids move on

I was the first poster that chose UMD, with my kid it was an ego thing. Thought he was being a bit sensitive. Oh well.

(except nursing obviously because you must start on day 1 to get thru in 4 years).

Isn't that true for engineering as well?

No, it is completely open. You don't have to declare a major till you are a junior and you can choose and do multiple majors in whichever school you want.

That usually happens in a major that is not impacted, which means it's not that popular there. You could not do that in an impacted major.

Do you not get that once you leave huge state schools, largely there are NO IMPACTED MAJORS. THat's why it is one of the HUGE BENEFITS of attending a Case/RPI/WPI/RIT/etc You CAN major in whatever the hell you want. There is no more competition to try and get the major you want, then have to settle for "what has space". Many schools in the 5-10K range have NO IMPACTED MAJORS. Anyone can decide to major in Comp Sci---not just the 1% who were admitted to it.

Do you not get that THAT WAS NOT MY POINT, and that you don't need to post in ALL CAPS because you feel OFFENDED.

sheesh

Schools that have "no impacted majors" does not mean those majors are not popular. It just means they have a well rounded student body and want students to have the flexibility to learn what they desire. Obviously the majority of kids (75%+) at Case are engineering/stem majors or something else and premed. So the school knows most are taking Bio, chem, orgo and/or the first 2 years of Calc/engineering preparation courses. After that, they have a fairly good idea what percent of kids will want to be mech E vs Chem E vs BME, etc. And they supplement with extra sessions of Class Y if they have enough interest. And CS courses tend to be more filled to capacity than some other major classes, as many engineers want to minor in CS (and it's a good fit for most). But they recognize the value of allowing the students to do just that. And it's easier to manage with only 6K undergrads.

I get that if UMD let everyone major in what they wanted, they would have issues for many majors, that's due to them being a large school and it's harder to scale courses on a large scale.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

This admission cycle my NOVA kid chose CS at UMD ($10k merit per year) over Case engineering ($30k) as well as BU ($25k), Lehigh ($30k) WM ($0), Ohio St. ($16.5k), UMN ($25k) and Pitt ($0). Really enjoyed our visit. He was deferred to RD from EA. He was bitter about the deferral. He would have liked to get out of the DMV, but think he made the smart choice.

I agree. CWRU might have been an option for my kid too but the deferral crossed them off.

I don't understand the "deferral crossed them off"? If you kid wanted to go and would have accepted in EA, what was the "better offer" from a RD school that swayed them?
It's not like they were Waitlisted--that I can understand. After May 1 most kids move on

I was the first poster that chose UMD, with my kid it was an ego thing. Thought he was being a bit sensitive. Oh well.

(except nursing obviously because you must start on day 1 to get thru in 4 years).

Isn't that true for engineering as well?

No, it is completely open. You don't have to declare a major till you are a junior and you can choose and do multiple majors in whichever school you want.

That usually happens in a major that is not impacted, which means it's not that popular there. You could not do that in an impacted major.

Take it from an alum and 2 kids at case that is not the case. You can apply as a psychology major and graduate as a chemical engineer or something else. It happens at Case all the time. But they will weed you out if you are not prepared. For example, some may go there to pursue premed but weeded out after struggling with organic chemistry. Same goes for engineering. At the end everyone finds what they are good at and pursue that.

yes, but is chemical engineer an impacted major at Case ? That was the point. Impacted majors don't let you transfer in unless there is room, and you pass the prereqs.

That is not how Case curriculum works. You register for the classes you want. There are requirements for each major and as long as you fulfill them over whatever period you are their you are good. First two years everyone pretty much takes the same classes. There are different level of science and math requirements based on majors. If you want arts and engineering you take sciences and math that are for engineering. It is very flexible. I don't think anyone at case ever heard of anything like impacted major.

yes, that is the point. There are no impacted majors at Case, ie, the majors are not as popular such that the program is full.

CS/engineering is impacted at UMDCP because it's a very popular major.

This makes no sense! Why are you trying to compare what happens at a state school with 40k students with a private with only 6k undergrad and a flexible curriculum? If you are trying to say UMD is better because there is one popular major and there isn't one at Case because majority is not looking to major in one particular topic...then I don't know what is the point. I'd think majority wanting to pursue a single major is indicative more of homogeneity and a lack of interest and diversity than anything else. If anything that should be a negative than a positive aspect ( and I am not saying UMD is a bad pick...it is just a different school with a different makeup and priorities).

Engineering is a popular major at UMD because UMD is highly rated for that major.

Case, not as much.

That is the point.

If OP wants a small school and doesn't care about the prestige of the program, then Case makes sense. But, UMD is highly regarded for their engineering program, though it is a very large school. Hence, the LEP.

You can put that chip on your shoulder down now.

Project much?

[Anonymous]

Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

[Anonymous]

My DS’s roommate is a Econ Business major. He seem very happy with his program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

Not clear yet but likely if he sticks with Econ, more likely to be grad school for a PhD or combining with something like environmental science to work in that space. He’s not set on Econ though and might be interested in something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If cost is the same, which would you choose and why?

DC was in this situation last year and chose UMD. Case Western seemed like a terrific school for pre-med and other medical disciplines. However, DC wasn't interested in biomedical engineering, and we felt UMD provided better opportunities in non-medical areas. If your child is interested in biomedical engineering or anything else related to medicine, Case probably would be the better choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

Not clear yet but likely if he sticks with Econ, more likely to be grad school for a PhD or combining with something like environmental science to work in that space. He’s not set on Econ though and might be interested in something else.

Richard Thaler 2017 Nobel winner in Economics and currently at UChicago is a Case alumni. This is off course not an evidence of any sort. However, if your DS' goal is to do research there are precedents of great outcomes even though Case may not be well known for economics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

Not clear yet but likely if he sticks with Econ, more likely to be grad school for a PhD or combining with something like environmental science to work in that space. He’s not set on Econ though and might be interested in something else.

Richard Thaler 2017 Nobel winner in Economics and currently at UChicago is a Case alumni. This is off course not an evidence of any sort. However, if your DS' goal is to do research there are precedents of great outcomes even though Case may not be well known for economics.

And case has spent the last decade working to improve their non-STEM/non-engineering/non-premed curriculum and attract more students to those areas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Case Western is big on yield protection. At my kid's HS they waitlist all the high stats kids. I'd almost want to say that with a 35/36 ACT its better to go test optional.

This admission cycle my NOVA kid chose CS at UMD ($10k merit per year) over Case engineering ($30k) as well as BU ($25k), Lehigh ($30k) WM ($0), Ohio St. ($16.5k), UMN ($25k) and Pitt ($0). Really enjoyed our visit. He was deferred to RD from EA. He was bitter about the deferral. He would have liked to get out of the DMV, but think he made the smart choice.

I agree. CWRU might have been an option for my kid too but the deferral crossed them off.

I don't understand the "deferral crossed them off"? If you kid wanted to go and would have accepted in EA, what was the "better offer" from a RD school that swayed them?
It's not like they were Waitlisted--that I can understand. After May 1 most kids move on

I was the first poster that chose UMD, with my kid it was an ego thing. Thought he was being a bit sensitive. Oh well.

(except nursing obviously because you must start on day 1 to get thru in 4 years).

Isn't that true for engineering as well?

No, it is completely open. You don't have to declare a major till you are a junior and you can choose and do multiple majors in whichever school you want.

That usually happens in a major that is not impacted, which means it's not that popular there. You could not do that in an impacted major.

Take it from an alum and 2 kids at case that is not the case. You can apply as a psychology major and graduate as a chemical engineer or something else. It happens at Case all the time. But they will weed you out if you are not prepared. For example, some may go there to pursue premed but weeded out after struggling with organic chemistry. Same goes for engineering. At the end everyone finds what they are good at and pursue that.

yes, but is chemical engineer an impacted major at Case ? That was the point. Impacted majors don't let you transfer in unless there is room, and you pass the prereqs.

That is not how Case curriculum works. You register for the classes you want. There are requirements for each major and as long as you fulfill them over whatever period you are their you are good. First two years everyone pretty much takes the same classes. There are different level of science and math requirements based on majors. If you want arts and engineering you take sciences and math that are for engineering. It is very flexible. I don't think anyone at case ever heard of anything like impacted major.

yes, that is the point. There are no impacted majors at Case, ie, the majors are not as popular such that the program is full.

CS/engineering is impacted at UMDCP because it's a very popular major.

This makes no sense! Why are you trying to compare what happens at a state school with 40k students with a private with only 6k undergrad and a flexible curriculum? If you are trying to say UMD is better because there is one popular major and there isn't one at Case because majority is not looking to major in one particular topic...then I don't know what is the point. I'd think majority wanting to pursue a single major is indicative more of homogeneity and a lack of interest and diversity than anything else. If anything that should be a negative than a positive aspect ( and I am not saying UMD is a bad pick...it is just a different school with a different makeup and priorities).

Engineering is a popular major at UMD because UMD is highly rated for that major.

Case, not as much.

That is the point.

If OP wants a small school and doesn't care about the prestige of the program, then Case makes sense. But, UMD is highly regarded for their engineering program, though it is a very large school. Hence, the LEP.

You can put that chip on your shoulder down now.

Project much?

what I stated was fact. How does that equate to me projecting anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

Not clear yet but likely if he sticks with Econ, more likely to be grad school for a PhD or combining with something like environmental science to work in that space. He’s not set on Econ though and might be interested in something else.

Richard Thaler 2017 Nobel winner in Economics and currently at UChicago is a Case alumni. This is off course not an evidence of any sort. However, if your DS' goal is to do research there are precedents of great outcomes even though Case may not be well known for economics.

And case has spent the last decade working to improve their non-STEM/non-engineering/non-premed curriculum and attract more students to those areas.

+I think this is a needed investment. A close friend's kid is in engineering at Case and really loves some aspects of the academics, but overall isn't happy there because though she is doing well academically, she feels she can never really get away from/a break from STEM. She feels like all the other areas are trivialized or "stem-ified" and that there's a very condescending attitude towards anything that isn't STEM. She's transferring to UMD (in-state for her).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to detail this but how is Vase if you are not engineering or premed? My DS is thinking Econ, maybe env science, Case has a super interesting sounding major called Origins but I’m not sure how marketable that would be.

Case seems like a good fit for my DS in a lot of respects, basically his friends are all the engineering and CS type kids and Case just sounds like what he’s looking for, but if it doesn’t work academically it doesn’t work. Trying to decide if it is worth a visit this summer.

If he is thinking Econ what is his post graduation goal - grad school, IBanking, or other? It is definitely worth a visit to find out if the school can get him where he ultimately wants to go. Though it is always better to go when all the students are around - you can talk to students with similar interests and feel the general vive of the campus.

Not clear yet but likely if he sticks with Econ, more likely to be grad school for a PhD or combining with something like environmental science to work in that space. He’s not set on Econ though and might be interested in something else.

Richard Thaler 2017 Nobel winner in Economics and currently at UChicago is a Case alumni. This is off course not an evidence of any sort. However, if your DS' goal is to do research there are precedents of great outcomes even though Case may not be well known for economics.

And case has spent the last decade working to improve their non-STEM/non-engineering/non-premed curriculum and attract more students to those areas.

+I think this is a needed investment. A close friend's kid is in engineering at Case and really loves some aspects of the academics, but overall isn't happy there because though she is doing well academically, she feels she can never really get away from/a break from STEM. She feels like all the other areas are trivialized or "stem-ified" and that there's a very condescending attitude towards anything that isn't STEM. She's transferring to UMD (in-state for her).

It definately has a STEMy vibe. My kid almost went---had over $40K merit/year offered. But picked (at full pay of course) a similar school that is more balanced and less "stem nerdy"---more Humanities/social science majors and a school that encourages kids to take what they love to study and has no real core curriculum. For my kid it was a much better fit.
But would have been happy there---it is an amazing school.