What is the appeal of Glennon Doyle

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I used to find mommy and inspirational bloggers to be a guilty pleasure - like Glennon Doyle, Brenee Brown, etc. But now I just can't really get anything out of it because it's so clear they are messed up personally.

I never got the enormous appeal of brenee brown, probably because she reminds me of many other ph.d.'s in the psychology field and personally she always struck me as thin skinned, defensive and insecure. She seems to have softened but star quality and the enormous national stage she commands? Baffled. I think personally she probably struggles with it too...I have known other clinicians and faculty/researchers who are so wise, warm and charismatic. Life is funny, these things don't always square.

I can't with Brene Brown either. Ugh.

A few points: Brene Brown is a social worker, not a psychologist. She also has a Ph.D. and a legitimate faculty appointment at an actual university. Finding her style grating is a matter of personal preference, but it's not the same as someone like Glennon Doyle, who has no robust credentials in anything while putting forth the illusion of expertise. That may be part of her charm, in the way that some people find Sarah Palin or Kim Kardashian charming: they're complete BS artists. It's one thing to find people like that entertaining, but thinking they provide actual expert advice in things that matter is troubling. Hard pass.

But whether their advice is actually "expert" or not, if someone finds it helpful, what does it matter? What's the actual harm?

You don't see an issue with people following the advice of someone with no legitimate credentials on a topic? Plenty of things can "seem" helpful that actually aren't. Our country has a weird fixation with ignoring actual experts and thinking they know best, to no one's benefit.

Especially if they are their “authentic” self to readers while actually rewriting their own history. There have been numerous indications on multiple websites that Glennon’s history is not what she says it is.

Sure, if they're giving advice on psychiatric meds or something. But aren't most of these people touting things along the lines of "be true to yourself" and GRATITUDE? I share the cynicism, but it's not like that's deep enough to require credentials.

I was the poster who said I did not get the appeal of Brown, did not know she was not a psychologist, thanks for clarifying. I think early in she looked to me like she was not all that self aware.. I totally get that she actually has creds but oddly this is part of what grated because her response to critique was so unlike what I would expect of a colleague. I'm thinking specifically about her response to Adam Grant who questioned implementing some of her tenants about "authenticity" in the workplace. I can look for the link, but she sounded defensive and she seemed offended for even being challenged. She seemed pissed about having to define her terms. This is what professionals and colleagues in the field do though, they challenge and ask questions about your work and your thinking.

Additionally I was confused because shame in her work was never tied to any of the larger issues they would be in broader theory or clinical work (like looking at the unique relationship between shame and narcissism, or how to work with shame in treatment, or research regarding different common pathways on how shame develops, etc) but i also realize she was writing self help and she has to significantly water down her research for public consumption and this probably is a huge conflict/pia for her too.

So basically i suspect she was really just working her sh"t out as she went along versus having done the work. Which I guess is how it goes,. I found it hard to watch though. There’s no shame researcher who maybe had a better handle on their personal shame? Maybe not, I don't know. I agree...the personality issues of some of these high profile writers can't help but be revealed and this is what happens when you write so personally. And then the fame fuels your issues further and you write personally about it some more, etc. I have not decided if that suggests they are brave and creative or actually naive and a bit too attention seeking/grandiose. Maybe a bit of all of it.

I'm the PP who pointed out Brene Brown's credentials and only just now saw this.

As to the bolded, she may have been exhausted by the mansplaining. I know how academics operate but christ, the mansplaining and condescension can be SO hard to take, day in and day out. She also doesn't study shame in the clinical context, e.g., narcissistic personality disorder, so why would she go there? Different people specialize in different things.

The larger point is that she has academic chops that Glennon Doyle does not have. At all. So, while people might find both irritating, it's an important distinction to make.

[Anonymous]

I've never read her, but I've heard/read some excerpts from her writing and I thought they were well-done.

I cannot stand Elizabeth Gilbert. I actually read her book Eat, Pray, Love and found that she treated her ex so cruelly at the beginning of the book just because she didn't have the ovaries to call it quits. So hurt him, humiliated him, spoke badly about him in the book and then she wants us to celebrate that she found joy in life? Like you couldn't have done all of these things while married?

I generally like Brene Brown, although I feel like she's been forced to extend her space and presence and it doesn't work anymore. But overall, especially when she first "came out" I read some of her stuff and was really touched by her analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister went to college with Glennon and has always said that Glennon is first and foremost a fiction writer. Notably the alcoholism and eating disorders are exaggerated.

She’s a fraud and mentally ill.

Okay, but even if your sister knew her then, she couldn't possibly say she didn't accurately portray personal issues like that.

[Anonymous]

Her earlier books were funny and self deprecating her latest - preachy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've never read her, but I've heard/read some excerpts from her writing and I thought they were well-done.

I cannot stand Elizabeth Gilbert. I actually read her book Eat, Pray, Love and found that she treated her ex so cruelly at the beginning of the book just because she didn't have the ovaries to call it quits. So hurt him, humiliated him, spoke badly about him in the book and then she wants us to celebrate that she found joy in life? Like you couldn't have done all of these things while married?

I generally like Brene Brown, although I feel like she's been forced to extend her space and presence and it doesn't work anymore. But overall, especially when she first "came out" I read some of her stuff and was really touched by her analysis.

here's some tea for you, DCUM. I actually knew Elizabeth Gilbert's first husband at the time of their divorce. He was visibly devastated. He is a super nice guy. So I was mortified when I saw her book come out, could not stand to even touch it because of feeling so badly for him. Then one day years later I ran into him ... and he was doing fabulously! Married a accomplished woman and has a couple of kids, I think. He had the last laugh in just being a better person. The funny thing was, when I ran into him, I was at a DC cafe and I had JUST seen this chick across from me reading Eat Pray Love and run throught that entire thought process again in my head.

[Anonymous]

I have been really enjoying her podcast "We can do hard things" but it's mostly because I enjoy her sister, Amanda, and their banter. I like listening to close siblings talk.

[Anonymous]

Abby is so put upon in that marriage. It's hilarious to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never read her, but I've heard/read some excerpts from her writing and I thought they were well-done.

I cannot stand Elizabeth Gilbert. I actually read her book Eat, Pray, Love and found that she treated her ex so cruelly at the beginning of the book just because she didn't have the ovaries to call it quits. So hurt him, humiliated him, spoke badly about him in the book and then she wants us to celebrate that she found joy in life? Like you couldn't have done all of these things while married?

I generally like Brene Brown, although I feel like she's been forced to extend her space and presence and it doesn't work anymore. But overall, especially when she first "came out" I read some of her stuff and was really touched by her analysis.

here's some tea for you, DCUM. I actually knew Elizabeth Gilbert's first husband at the time of their divorce. He was visibly devastated. He is a super nice guy. So I was mortified when I saw her book come out, could not stand to even touch it because of feeling so badly for him. Then one day years later I ran into him ... and he was doing fabulously! Married a accomplished woman and has a couple of kids, I think. He had the last laugh in just being a better person. The funny thing was, when I ran into him, I was at a DC cafe and I had JUST seen this chick across from me reading Eat Pray Love and run throught that entire thought process again in my head.

That is good tea!!Glad he's doing well. E Gilbert was awful to him

[Anonymous]

Glennon Doyle is the daytime TV of authors, the
literary equivalent of a discount inspo-mug at TJ MAXX. Brene Brown is an actual academic.

[Anonymous]

I think the stuff I find annoying about Glennon is the same stuff that makes her appealing.

She has basically gone through a public midlife crisis and figured out some basic stuff that plenty of us need time and midlife crises to figure out. Stuff like being true to yourself and not locking yourself down to the life you committed to in your 20s just out of obligation, etc. Valuable lessons, yes, but also free ones to anyone who just... lives life and tries. The stuff she talks about is both profound and prosaic -- it's just very typical midlife stuff.

Which is why I find her annoying. To me, she is like that one friend who got divorced and reinvented herself and now thinks everyone needs to listen to what she learned. Except it's like she's forgotten that while she was doing those things, the rest of us were also have experiences (different ones, often!) and also learning things, and maybe don't need to be lectured on life. I just can't stand how she positions herself as an authority when her "expertise" is basically just living life and making a few choices to make her specific life better than it was before. I also think she drafts off Abby's fame a lot in very annoying ways.

Totally different vibe from Brenee Brown. She can be annoying sometimes (I tried to listen to her podcast, but it just grates) but she only became famous because her area of research just randomly resonated with a ton of people. She did one TED talk on shame and people went crazy over it because it was like "Oh, yes, this is precisely what is happening in my life." I agree that as she's expanded beyond that, the quality of the work is thinner -- I am a lot less interested in her more recent books and think the stuff on leadership and the more corporate-focused stuff is very meh. But I read the book she wrote on women and shame before she was a household name and it resonated with me so much. I still think about it. I think she's genuinely helped liberate a lot of people from living in shame and that's really worthwhile.

I don't think Glennon has actually changed anyone's life in that way, except her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the stuff I find annoying about Glennon is the same stuff that makes her appealing.

She has basically gone through a public midlife crisis and figured out some basic stuff that plenty of us need time and midlife crises to figure out. Stuff like being true to yourself and not locking yourself down to the life you committed to in your 20s just out of obligation, etc. Valuable lessons, yes, but also free ones to anyone who just... lives life and tries. The stuff she talks about is both profound and prosaic -- it's just very typical midlife stuff.

Which is why I find her annoying. To me, she is like that one friend who got divorced and reinvented herself and now thinks everyone needs to listen to what she learned. Except it's like she's forgotten that while she was doing those things, the rest of us were also have experiences (different ones, often!) and also learning things, and maybe don't need to be lectured on life. I just can't stand how she positions herself as an authority when her "expertise" is basically just living life and making a few choices to make her specific life better than it was before. I also think she drafts off Abby's fame a lot in very annoying ways.

Totally different vibe from Brenee Brown. She can be annoying sometimes (I tried to listen to her podcast, but it just grates) but she only became famous because her area of research just randomly resonated with a ton of people. She did one TED talk on shame and people went crazy over it because it was like "Oh, yes, this is precisely what is happening in my life." I agree that as she's expanded beyond that, the quality of the work is thinner -- I am a lot less interested in her more recent books and think the stuff on leadership and the more corporate-focused stuff is very meh. But I read the book she wrote on women and shame before she was a household name and it resonated with me so much. I still think about it. I think she's genuinely helped liberate a lot of people from living in shame and that's really worthwhile.

I don't think Glennon has actually changed anyone's life in that way, except her own.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Glennon Doyle is the daytime TV of authors, the
literary equivalent of a discount inspo-mug at TJ MAXX. Brene Brown is an actual academic.

Yes but Brown has sold out. She isn’t academic anymore, she more university of Phoenix.

[Anonymous]

I don't think of myself as the typical Glennon Doyle person but i do think that she helped save my marriage in a way. I suffered with terrible PPD that lasted for years and someone send me some of her momastery articles that were a huge help. A couple years later when my marriage was at rock bottom I read Love Warrior and it really turned things around for me. I know it didn't work out in her marriage but I am thankful I read it. I haven't read any other her other stuff but I loosely follow her and it seems like her charity work is good.

[Anonymous]

They're all like therapy horoscopes. Sounds lovely and those searching for inspiration or guidance will find some nugget to be all "OMG SO TRUE!!!" over. I find Doyle and Hollis in particular to be toxic in their self-absorption and feel sorry for their families/the people they leave in their wake. Brown has some clips that I like - the one about sympathy vs. empathy, for example - but agree that a lot of her other stuff doesn't hold up to real-world applications the way she seems to think it should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're all like therapy horoscopes. Sounds lovely and those searching for inspiration or guidance will find some nugget to be all "OMG SO TRUE!!!" over. I find Doyle and Hollis in particular to be toxic in their self-absorption and feel sorry for their families/the people they leave in their wake. Brown has some clips that I like - the one about sympathy vs. empathy, for example - but agree that a lot of her other stuff doesn't hold up to real-world applications the way she seems to think it should.

Psychologist in my 50's here...I guess it really for me never felt like her work was particularly original or innovative. Shame was a huge topic in the 80's and 90's during the huge "inner child movement". Multiple self help writers covered shame, everyone from Harriet Lerner, to John Bradshaw. New age writers talked about shame too and still do..hell Freud discussed the difference between shame and guilt nearly 100 years ago and in psychology this area blossomed in the 80's as the topic of narcissism skyrocketed in the United States. Is it that her work is in a department like Education, so she does not cross over with the psychological literature as much as one would think? This baffles me....now she's talking shame in working. Meanwhile Industrial psychologists I woukd think study this in depth and have been for years. I get that most people reading her were not reading self help in the 80's...for me, I feel like many others have said what she is saying. But obviously, she has tapped a market and her work touches people which is an accomplishment in and of itself. I am curious...What academic dept was Brown in? Does anyone know?