How to motivate 6th grader who is disinterested in school and careless about his assignments?

[Anonymous]

My son is in 6th grade and has been struggling since the beginning of the year with the middle school curriculum. We met with his teachers in the first quarter and helped get him on track; they didn't see any deeper issue besides effort and (to a lesser extent) handwriting. He's done even worse this second quarter: a C in both science and English - the subjects that (based on his reading ability and interests) he should do best in.

We are meeting with his teachers again next week, but based on comments from the lead teacher and from what we observe, his main issue seems to be effort. He routinely turns in assignments with screamingly obvious mistakes: no capitalization or punctuation, missing words and incomplete sentences. With his homework, we try to review and make him correct it - but he does the same sort of thing all the time in classwork. The lead teacher is clearly frustrated with him; she said she'd worked with him repeatedly on assignments and he kept turning in completely substandard work. I hoped it might be handwriting but apparently most of his in-class work is done on computer.

We talk to him daily about his school work - we check Edline nonstop. We've tried threats and bribes, probably neither with sufficient strength or consistency. We talk about the importance of college and having opportunities in life. I tell him all the time if he were an 11yo in Pakistan he'd be working 12 hours a day in a carpet factory. None of this seems to make an impact. He's in a smaller MCPS school with great teachers; next year he will be in a much bigger MCPS middle school so we've got to get a handle on this now.

He's basically a very sweet kid, pretty nerdy and not athletic, but has a small group of good friends. He cares at some level - he will cry at times when we talk about his bad grades - but he doesn't seem to care enough to do his work properly. He has very strong interests in certain areas (in the past it was always science and nature; now it's become Star Wars and Legos). He is a great reader, his reading scores went off the charts a few years ago and he reads a ton.

So DCUM - any advice? Should we do the Bethesda thing and get him an educational psych workup? Tutors? Stricter discipline? Private school would be very hard to swing but if there were a school that does well with kids like this, we'd figure a way to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Back off. Bs and Cs are not "struggling". Provide positive rewards for better grades. Do not constantly nag him and destroy is happiness and self esteem. What activity or subject gives him the most satisfaction and skill set? Beating him down will not work and will only alienate him.

If organization is a problem, help him with that. There are many online resources for that.

[Anonymous]

I feel your pain and know it well.

Do you think he actually can do better?

I don't have much to offer, but I can tell you that his self esteem is probably suffering and everything you say about the future he hears as "my mom thinks I am a loser" which probably has the opposite effect from what you intend.

I can tell you that what you see is very common. It is unfortunate that your son's biggest issue seems to be that he is an immature boy in an environment that punishes this.

[Anonymous]

Read "Punished by Rewards."

[Anonymous]

Inattentive ADHD?
Since we're not on the Special Needs board, lots of posters will roll their eyes that someone mentions ADHD, but my child is like this. He started getting lower grades in 4th grade, and was diagnosed in 5th grade with moderate-severe ADHD, inattentive type. Also sweet, nerdy, with a coordination disorder (ie, non-athletic). Inattentive ADHD and non-athleticism often go together.

We went to the highly reputable Stixrud's psychology practice in downtown Silver Spring. Their neuro-psychological evaluation cost $3,200 (no ins. reimbursement), and was extremely helpful. We found out what kind of learner our son was, strengths and weaknesses in detail, IQ breakdown, etc. He was diagnosed with a few things that stem from his ADHD, such as the dyscalculia and dysgraphia/coordination disorder.

The most important feature of this evaluation is that it's in a language the school can understand, and that you can use to ask for services. My son has an IEP, not at 504 plan, with extensive accommodations such as extended time, being able to reply on test booklets, possible dictation if he wishes, use of a calculator in math, help of a para-educator in class to check he's on task and organize his paperwork, use of the resource room with guidance from the special education teacher for projects he needs help with.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I could have written this post word for word.

Someone suggested to me that it was classic inattentive adhd which usually becomes very clear in middle school. We literally had the exact same situation as you describe.

We had the testing and received that diagnosis, began vyvanse and now it's a whole new world. Grades are not perfect but it's been a huge improvement.

I recommend that you do the same. One thing I can tell you is that your son DOES care, he DOES feel badly and inadequate, and he will be thrilled to know that it's not just "him" and his bad character, but there's an actual medical reason. As my son told me "I'm hoping it is adhd because I know there's something wrong and I want an answer."

[Anonymous]

is he rushing through school assignments or taking forever to complete them?

if rushing, can he be encouraged to use a checklist of things he needs to review for (punctuation, spelling, etc.) and given something boring to do if he does finish early?

if dawdling, why? is it hard for him to write by hand? is he being distracted by something? does it take him a long time to think of answers or do calculations? each reason (and there could be many more) has a different solution.

[Anonymous]

Are you actually seeing a lack of effort or are you seeing a lack of results?
And if you are really seeing a lack of effort, is it a breezy "this doesn't matter" or a defeated "I give up?"

There is a big push for middle schoolers to be responsible for their work and themselves. Some middle schoolers aren't quite ready to be on their own yet, and still need help making sure everything's taken care of. Knowing how your child is struggling can help. I tried a bunch of things for my middle schooler and we ended up with a series of hand-written note cards for various tasks. If she was doing a writing assignment, she'd need to grab the "editing my work" notecard that listed everything she needed to do - including having her name on the assignment, checking for punctuation, considering asking someone to proof read, etc. At the beginning, I had to remind her to use the notecard. She got better at remembering them, especially after she insisted she did not need it and we compared the grades she got when she was using it vs the grades she got for the 2 week period she refused to use it. Middle school is great for this sort of experiment and experience!

My child does have inattentive ADHD, and it did get markedly more obvious in middle school. We opted not to medicate, however, because her self esteem as not been affected and she is not interested in being medicated. Instead, we're careful with her nutrition, make sure she gets loads of exercise, and work with her on personal things she can do to help manage her brain and body. My daughter breaks up homework with physical activity. She keeps a doodle page on her desk when doing school work. She's asked to be moved in classes when she realized that sitting near the windows or near a particular friend was too distracting. She hadn't given up when we started seriously brain storming ways to help her, so it was easier. If your child's self-esteem has been damaged or he's feeling like this is an impossible hill to climb, I'd suggest getting him tested and consider all possible avenues (including medication, you wouldn't hesitate to give insulin to a diabetic who needed it) to get him back on track.

My child did not want to be making these mistakes. Trying to shame her with stories of children being forced to do slave labor would not have helped her at all. Is it helping your son? I know you're frustrated. Take a step back and consider if he's doing this deliberately or if he's overwhelmed.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts. There's a lot here to chew on. I don't think we're too hard on him (one of my friends just described me as overly indulgent toward my kids!) If his worst grade was math, we'd understand - he really has struggled there and we had a tutor for 3.5 years until she told us she was too busy just before the holidays. He had somehow made it through K-2 without learning any basic math facts, but now seems to be on a better path.

Now the lousiest grades he gets are in the subjects where he never had any previous issues. And they are lousy: the C in English is a gift from his teacher, who worked with him repeatedly to move the grade from 41 (mid-December) to a 58 (at the holidays) to now 71. The other C is the exact opposite: he had a solid B in science but did badly on a couple of quizzes. He could have redone them - the school allows 2 per quarter and we begged him to do it - but he just never got around to it (in part because he was spending so much time redoing English assignments.)

Getting Ds on quizzes in English and science just mystifies us. We know he is capable of basic punctuation. Or capitalizing someone's name. He can sit and read a 500 page book overnight; he's got a terrific vocabulary for a kid his age. He loves science so much that a previous teacher nicknamed him the science kid. But he has always hated school, and he wants nothing more than to be done with anything school-related (even the occasional project that interests him) as quickly as possible.

I need to think about the inattentive ADHD possibility. I have a brother who is almost certainly inattentive ADHD; we just cleaned out our parents' house and all his report cards talked about his failure to pay attention. Even today in his 40s he routinely drifts off mid-conversation (he's happy and successful though, so that's good.) My son doesn't seem much like that at all. The errors he's making on his assignments are, to me, like his inability to pick up his clothes every day after changing: just an unwillingness to make the extra effort.

I don't know if his self-esteem is suffering. He's a pretty chill kid - not very competitive. Mostly that's a good thing for a middle schooler, but sometimes I wish he was like his yougner brother who comes home from 1st grade desperate to work on his reading because he thinks he is in the lowest reading group. I don't think my older son *wants* to make these mistakes, but so far we just haven't figured out the right way to motivate him. I'm going to try the index card tip; we're now mandating that he writes a paragraph a day that we will edit with him so that he can see and begin to learn from his mistakes. But I'm not confident this is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts. There's a lot here to chew on. I don't think we're too hard on him (one of my friends just described me as overly indulgent toward my kids!) If his worst grade was math, we'd understand - he really has struggled there and we had a tutor for 3.5 years until she told us she was too busy just before the holidays. He had somehow made it through K-2 without learning any basic math facts, but now seems to be on a better path.

Now the lousiest grades he gets are in the subjects where he never had any previous issues. And they are lousy: the C in English is a gift from his teacher, who worked with him repeatedly to move the grade from 41 (mid-December) to a 58 (at the holidays) to now 71. The other C is the exact opposite: he had a solid B in science but did badly on a couple of quizzes. He could have redone them - the school allows 2 per quarter and we begged him to do it - but he just never got around to it (in part because he was spending so much time redoing English assignments.)

Getting Ds on quizzes in English and science just mystifies us. We know he is capable of basic punctuation. Or capitalizing someone's name. He can sit and read a 500 page book overnight; he's got a terrific vocabulary for a kid his age. He loves science so much that a previous teacher nicknamed him the science kid. But he has always hated school, and he wants nothing more than to be done with anything school-related (even the occasional project that interests him) as quickly as possible.

I need to think about the inattentive ADHD possibility. I have a brother who is almost certainly inattentive ADHD; we just cleaned out our parents' house and all his report cards talked about his failure to pay attention. Even today in his 40s he routinely drifts off mid-conversation (he's happy and successful though, so that's good.) My son doesn't seem much like that at all. The errors he's making on his assignments are, to me, like his inability to pick up his clothes every day after changing: just an unwillingness to make the extra effort.

I don't know if his self-esteem is suffering. He's a pretty chill kid - not very competitive. Mostly that's a good thing for a middle schooler, but sometimes I wish he was like his yougner brother who comes home from 1st grade desperate to work on his reading because he thinks he is in the lowest reading group. I don't think my older son *wants* to make these mistakes, but so far we just haven't figured out the right way to motivate him. I'm going to try the index card tip; we're now mandating that he writes a paragraph a day that we will edit with him so that he can see and begin to learn from his mistakes. But I'm not confident this is enough.

I'm 09:58 with the inattentive ADHD 5th grader.
There is no way for us to diagnose your kid, however what you describe is textbook. Inattentive ADHD kids are "lazy", "aren't making any effort", and can't organize their lives, whether it's picking up clothes or putting thoughts on paper. By the way, writing essays is typically a multitasking kind of thing that trips up inattentive kids at some point. They have to pay attention to several things at once, spelling, sentence structure, flow of ideas, proofreading, etc. The psych told us that inattentive children rarely excelled at math, particularly with word problems and simple recall of multiplication and other basic facts.
About the self-esteem - don't assume anything! That's what I thought with my super-chill son. But actually he was convinced that he wouldn't amount to anything and that he was stupid, that everybody else was just faster and more efficient, and that's just how it was. Medication was a revelation for him. He experienced, for the first time in his life, that he could do things just as fast and well as his friends. His self-esteem shot up.
Just to remind you, you can work him to death, but it won't stick until you medicate him - if this is indeed ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts. There's a lot here to chew on. I don't think we're too hard on him (one of my friends just described me as overly indulgent toward my kids!) If his worst grade was math, we'd understand - he really has struggled there and we had a tutor for 3.5 years until she told us she was too busy just before the holidays. He had somehow made it through K-2 without learning any basic math facts, but now seems to be on a better path.

Now the lousiest grades he gets are in the subjects where he never had any previous issues. And they are lousy: the C in English is a gift from his teacher, who worked with him repeatedly to move the grade from 41 (mid-December) to a 58 (at the holidays) to now 71. The other C is the exact opposite: he had a solid B in science but did badly on a couple of quizzes. He could have redone them - the school allows 2 per quarter and we begged him to do it - but he just never got around to it (in part because he was spending so much time redoing English assignments.)

Getting Ds on quizzes in English and science just mystifies us. We know he is capable of basic punctuation. Or capitalizing someone's name. He can sit and read a 500 page book overnight; he's got a terrific vocabulary for a kid his age. He loves science so much that a previous teacher nicknamed him the science kid. But he has always hated school, and he wants nothing more than to be done with anything school-related (even the occasional project that interests him) as quickly as possible.

I need to think about the inattentive ADHD possibility. I have a brother who is almost certainly inattentive ADHD; we just cleaned out our parents' house and all his report cards talked about his failure to pay attention. Even today in his 40s he routinely drifts off mid-conversation (he's happy and successful though, so that's good.) My son doesn't seem much like that at all. The errors he's making on his assignments are, to me, like his inability to pick up his clothes every day after changing: just an unwillingness to make the extra effort.

I don't know if his self-esteem is suffering. He's a pretty chill kid - not very competitive. Mostly that's a good thing for a middle schooler, but sometimes I wish he was like his yougner brother who comes home from 1st grade desperate to work on his reading because he thinks he is in the lowest reading group. I don't think my older son *wants* to make these mistakes, but so far we just haven't figured out the right way to motivate him. I'm going to try the index card tip; we're now mandating that he writes a paragraph a day that we will edit with him so that he can see and begin to learn from his mistakes. But I'm not confident this is enough.

I'm 09:58 with the inattentive ADHD 5th grader.
There is no way for us to diagnose your kid, however what you describe is textbook. Inattentive ADHD kids are "lazy", "aren't making any effort", and can't organize their lives, whether it's picking up clothes or putting thoughts on paper. By the way, writing essays is typically a multitasking kind of thing that trips up inattentive kids at some point. They have to pay attention to several things at once, spelling, sentence structure, flow of ideas, proofreading, etc. The psych told us that inattentive children rarely excelled at math, particularly with word problems and simple recall of multiplication and other basic facts.
About the self-esteem - don't assume anything! That's what I thought with my super-chill son. But actually he was convinced that he wouldn't amount to anything and that he was stupid, that everybody else was just faster and more efficient, and that's just how it was. Medication was a revelation for him. He experienced, for the first time in his life, that he could do things just as fast and well as his friends. His self-esteem shot up.
Just to remind you, you can work him to death, but it won't stick until you medicate him - if this is indeed ADHD.

I'm PP 15:41 and again what you are saying is textbook. If it is adhd I promise you it is not unwillingness, its inability.

[Anonymous]

As a prior poster said, medication is a revelation for the kids and families of ADHD/ADD kids. Suddenly, kids are good at sports, have focus to be good at a musical instrument, and best of all are able to shine at schoolwork. Wow, what a difference compared to the nightly struggles we used to have with "I don't get it" or "I don't know where to start" etc. Almost none of that anymore. The medication is 100% worth it. Your child and your whole family will immensely appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a prior poster said, medication is a revelation for the kids and families of ADHD/ADD kids. Suddenly, kids are good at sports, have focus to be good at a musical instrument, and best of all are able to shine at schoolwork. Wow, what a difference compared to the nightly struggles we used to have with "I don't get it" or "I don't know where to start" etc. Almost none of that anymore. The medication is 100% worth it. Your child and your whole family will immensely appreciate it.

For us, Vyvanse has not been a cure-all. It's better, but our DS is still not as motivated as we'd like, despite being very bright. We did move him to a private where he gets more attention - he's not lost - and they really push him to learn. It's been worth it for us, he was not doing well in MCPS. I still miss the kids and families, but that's about it.

[Anonymous]

Other thoughts - if work previously came easy and now it doesn't, that can be a blow to their self-esteem. They were "smart" before and now they feel dumb.

Writing is not well taught at all in elementary school. We did both public and private and found both lack in actual writing instruction.

Writing essays is a skill that kids need to learn and they learn it from practice. But most teachers are assuming that they were taught it once so the kids must know. Next writing assignment, you might need to help him learn how to do it.

Another thing they don't teach well is how to critic literature in English. The teachers believe they are teaching this skill but instead they are teaching only theory but skipping how to practically do the work. He might need guidance with that as well.

As a parent, don't be afraid to look for outside resources in helping your kid learn writing skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prior poster said, medication is a revelation for the kids and families of ADHD/ADD kids. Suddenly, kids are good at sports, have focus to be good at a musical instrument, and best of all are able to shine at schoolwork. Wow, what a difference compared to the nightly struggles we used to have with "I don't get it" or "I don't know where to start" etc. Almost none of that anymore. The medication is 100% worth it. Your child and your whole family will immensely appreciate it.

For us, Vyvanse has not been a cure-all. It's better, but our DS is still not as motivated as we'd like, despite being very bright. We did move him to a private where he gets more attention - he's not lost - and they really push him to learn. It's been worth it for us, he was not doing well in MCPS. I still miss the kids and families, but that's about it.

I've done research on Vyvanse and the results are marginal at best in most cases.