Separate swimming in public pools - good for Muslims, bad for Jews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Hasidic community in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

You know the exact same bolded statement can be switched out to describing some Muslim communities. Ask Europe. Ask India. Take a look at places like the Middle East and Pakistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Hasidic community in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

You know the exact same bolded statement can be switched out to describing some Muslim communities. Ask Europe. Ask India. Take a look at places like the Middle East and Pakistan.

I'm not aware of Muslim communities like this in the US. Feel free to share any information you have. A closer comparison in the US would be something like the Walter Jeffs Mormon cult. It's a fundamentalist religion that chooses to segregate themselves from the rest of the community, who don't want to follow the laws of the place they live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Hasidic community in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

What does this have to do with supporting separate women's swimming hours for Muslim women but not Jewish women? They claim anti-Semitism bc for basically the same accommodation (women's only swimming hours in a public pool), the community supporting the Muslim women was praised and the one supporting the Jewish women were criticized. Its hard to see the double standard as anything but anti-Semitic.

The Muslim women are given two hours a week, on a Saturday evening which is presumably a low-use time for the pool. The Hasidic women are given three weekday morning, and Sunday afternoons, all of which are likely to be high use times. That difference matters.

Disagreeing with something that Jewish people want is not automatically anti-Semitic.

What are the Muslim and Jewish proportions of their local populations? Meaning, if the Toronto pool gives Muslim women one session per week, and the Chasidic pool gives the women four sessions per week, I would assume the Chasidic population is much higher proportionally in their community and/or the Chasidic community has shown a greater desire for women's swimming hours. Perhaps the demand was there. Either way, I agree with the PP. The NYTimes is incredibly biased. I, too, grew up with it as the gold standard newspaper but the bias is hard to ignore.

[Anonymous]

The fierce language in the editorial about "odor' is weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]The Hasidic community[/b] in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

They've taken over and destroyed the public schools in the East Ramapo School District.

[Anonymous]

Muslims in the US a far better integrated than they are in Europe.

However, an influx of refugees may swing this the other way, as it has for Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]The Hasidic community[/b] in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

They've taken over and destroyed the public schools in the East Ramapo School District.

What happened in Ramapo is a travesty. A population that doesn't use the public schools takes over the school district and runs it into the ground in order to lower their own taxes. It is a perversion of the democratic process.

[Anonymous]

They also get a disproportionate share of the special needs funding and cut a sweetheart deal to close a public school and transfer its propert to the local yeshiva.

[Anonymous]

There is a difference in U.S. and Canadian culture is also another reason. Canadians have a government policy to fund and support separate community needs. It has its pros and cons.

In order to deal with the Anglophone and Francophone problems of the past, the Canadian government implemented a government policy of multiculturalism. This policy uses state funds to support different ethnic groups so that they can maintain their separate language, culture and religion. This includes separate "community" centers, separate language newspapers and a host of other things that the U.S. government would not pay for.

Many Canadians who are the children of the first wave of immigrants in their family have expressed dissatisfaction with the policy of multiculturalism since they feel that it is that tends to "ghettoize" citizens instead of helping them assimilate. This was one of the underlying reasons why the Conservatives won the national elections and Harper was Prime Minister. People are tired of paying the taxes and also being "labeled".

However, I think opening a public resource once a week to a group that would not usually use it is a smart move because you are welcoming people, helping them improve their health and hopefully learning how to swim for their own safety.

I have a Jewish friend who lives in Orange County NY and he really has come to dislike what the Hasidic community has done there in terms of undermining the schools and heavy use of the county services. Many, many families are on welfare because so few are trained and capable of getting a job. He actually works in one of the county libraries and has often commented how happy he is to see Hasidic mothers with their children because they are at least trying to get more education for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why I have my own pool.

+1

where I can wear a burkini or go skinny dipping

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fierce language in the editorial about "odor' is weird.

"The city’s human rights law is quite clear that public accommodations like a swimming pool cannot exclude people based on sex. It allows for exemptions “based on bona fide considerations of public policy,” but this case — with its strong odor of religious intrusion into a secular space — does not seem bona fide at all."

omg it's a metaphor not meant literally "odor"

*sigh*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I have my own pool.

+1

where I can wear a burkini or go skinny dipping

or leave it to become a festering trench of mosquito larvae and dead plant matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Hasidic community in Brooklyn, and their extensions in Rockland, Orange, and other counties in NY and elsewhere are not representative of the Jewish community. It's an insular cult that shuns outsiders and anyone who leaves the community. They don't educate their boys outside of religious instruction, so the men are incapable of supporting their very large families that they have because they marry as teenagers. They control access to the Internet so community members won't understand the outside world. They vote as they are told, in a bloc, so they control local politicians. They disproportionately use public services like food stamps and Medicaid, yet have the money to build illegal structures to house their population.

Because their origins are Jewish, they claim anti-Semitism anytime they are opposed. I think their success may turn out to be their demise, because there is finally a pushback because the exponential growth is unsustainable when they need the largesse of the surrounding communities to survive. Pushback is coming - the editorial is one small example of it.

What does this have to do with supporting separate women's swimming hours for Muslim women but not Jewish women? They claim anti-Semitism bc for basically the same accommodation (women's only swimming hours in a public pool), the community supporting the Muslim women was praised and the one supporting the Jewish women were criticized. Its hard to see the double standard as anything but anti-Semitic.

The Muslim women are given two hours a week, on a Saturday evening which is presumably a low-use time for the pool. The Hasidic women are given three weekday morning, and Sunday afternoons, all of which are likely to be high use times. That difference matters.

Disagreeing with something that Jewish people want is not automatically anti-Semitic.

Almost perfect answe. I would just add "disagreeing with something that SOME Jewish people want..." Most Jews don't live like that.

[Anonymous]

Why can't the Jewish women and the muslim women just share the ssme pool hours together?

Embrace the melting pot instead of trying to fixate on differences.

The world would be a much better and kinder place if people started to devote a frsction of time to.their similarities insted of how we actively now just fight about and seek out differences.

[Anonymous]

I wish religion would remain in the private sphere and not creep continually into public spaces.

Publically funded? Open equally to all community members, no segregation allowed.

Privately funded? Do what you want.