For those with college-aged houseguests?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son didn't come home for Thanksgiving. He's at his girlfriend's house, and her mother emailed me to say how impressed by his manners and willingness to help out.

I wish he had come home...

I'm sure you wish he were home, but what a lovely email to get!!

[Anonymous]

My 5 year old knows silverware placement. It's called manners.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the insights. There are definitely serious parenting failures at play for both nieces (via different siblings). But those parents were both raised in the same household I was, by the same parents. And we clearly came away with very different attitudes and expectations.
To those who say this is a reflection of my bad hosting or attitude, I would respond that whatever the expectations of a host, I can't, in good conscience, spend days at someone else's house and do absolutely nothing to help with the meals I am served, etc, and feel good about myself. I have been a houseguest many many times and shared a good feeling of mutual contribution to a wonderful visit. And had the same from other houseguests many times over. I think I know the right balance between being a 'servant' as one poster suggested, and being an entitled twit. Sadly, my nieces are firmly in the latter.
That said, however my post reflects on me, the behavior I've witnessed and described reflects on them as well. That's what has me so confused and, frankly, sad. They seem to be entirely selfish, entitled people who have no sense of what's around them.
Anyway, I am happy to hear that this isn't an epidemic among the college-aged crowd. I hope to encounter more of the young people described in some of the responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem like a very difficult person to get on with OP.
you probably spent the last few days looking for their faults, just as you spent their early years judging their parents.

+1
I don't see not knowing where to put the fork as a huge character flaw. And even my husband cannot load the dishwasher properly, no matter how many times I tell him. They are your guests, not your servants. Not one of my houseguests this week has washed a dish, and I didn't expect it.

Your husband doesn't care to load the dishwasher your way...I mean the right way. He knows you will just do it yourself,so why change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the insights. There are definitely serious parenting failures at play for both nieces (via different siblings). But those parents were both raised in the same household I was, by the same parents. And we clearly came away with very different attitudes and expectations.
To those who say this is a reflection of my bad hosting or attitude, I would respond that whatever the expectations of a host, I can't, in good conscience, spend days at someone else's house and do absolutely nothing to help with the meals I am served, etc, and feel good about myself. I have been a houseguest many many times and shared a good feeling of mutual contribution to a wonderful visit. And had the same from other houseguests many times over. I think I know the right balance between being a 'servant' as one poster suggested, and being an entitled twit. Sadly, my nieces are firmly in the latter.
That said, however my post reflects on me, the behavior I've witnessed and described reflects on them as well. That's what has me so confused and, frankly, sad. They seem to be entirely selfish, entitled people who have no sense of what's around them.
Anyway, I am happy to hear that this isn't an epidemic among the college-aged crowd. I hope to encounter more of the young people described in some of the responses.

During third weekend did you make an effort to "hang out" with your nieces?

[Anonymous]

My college age daughter (I assume) would have no clue what the proper placement of cutlery is on a table. My kids grew up doing sports after school and we didn't do a lot of eating at the dinner table. I think my college daughter is a lovely human and parented well. Her ability to properly place cutlery has zero to do with manners.

If these Relatives don't know you extremely well, loading and unloading dishes would be awkward. I would have no clue how someone else liked their dishes loaded nor where to put them away. I think if I tried to help someone else clean their kitchen I would stand there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

What I can tell you is that your disdain of your relatives and your personal opinion of their upbringing is surely not lost on them. I'm sure when they run to their phones they are probly texting "get me the heck out of here". I know I would be.

[Anonymous]

DS brought 4 international students home with him from college. The house is a wreck. They are loud. They eat a ton. It will take me days to clean and get the house back to normal. It is the most wonderful time. The house is alive with energy and fun. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It will be sad when they are gone and I have a clean quiet house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My college age daughter (I assume) would have no clue what the proper placement of cutlery is on a table. My kids grew up doing sports after school and we didn't do a lot of eating at the dinner table. I think my college daughter is a lovely human and parented well. Her ability to properly place cutlery has zero to do with manners.

If these Relatives don't know you extremely well, loading and unloading dishes would be awkward. I would have no clue how someone else liked their dishes loaded nor where to put them away. I think if I tried to help someone else clean their kitchen I would stand there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

What I can tell you is that your disdain of your relatives and your personal opinion of their upbringing is surely not lost on them. I'm sure when they run to their phones they are probly texting "get me the heck out of here". I know I would be.

How did your daughter eat her meals? Standing up? Did she never eat a weekend or holiday meal at a proper
Table? I agree with you that table setting is quite a small pet of being a well mannered human being but if you somehow ate proper meals so rarely that your daughter can't tell you what a table
Setting looks like, that seems like you failed her on this level. I mean even restaurants have these expectations. Your daughter will have to eat in one someday, and she will hopefully be a house guest as well.

[Anonymous]

I think it's fairly normal for that age group to be unhelpful and self absorbed in that setting. But it's a major parenting fail that they weren't even able to do those things and do them when prompted. My six year old knows how to set a table and load and empty the dishwasher. There is no excuse for never having taught that to otherwise able kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college age daughter (I assume) would have no clue what the proper placement of cutlery is on a table. My kids grew up doing sports after school and we didn't do a lot of eating at the dinner table. I think my college daughter is a lovely human and parented well. Her ability to properly place cutlery has zero to do with manners.

If these Relatives don't know you extremely well, loading and unloading dishes would be awkward. I would have no clue how someone else liked their dishes loaded nor where to put them away. I think if I tried to help someone else clean their kitchen I would stand there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

What I can tell you is that your disdain of your relatives and your personal opinion of their upbringing is surely not lost on them. I'm sure when they run to their phones they are probly texting "get me the heck out of here". I know I would be.

How did your daughter eat her meals? Standing up? Did she never eat a weekend or holiday meal at a proper
Table? I agree with you that table setting is quite a small pet of being a well mannered human being but if you somehow ate proper meals so rarely that your daughter can't tell you what a table
Setting looks like, that seems like you failed her on this level. I mean even restaurants have these expectations. Your daughter will have to eat in one someday, and she will hopefully be a house guest as well.

Small part, not small pet. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

You are 100% right, OP. These apologists for bad behavior on this thread are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't think of nieces as "guests." They're family, they can help a bit. Nobody is asking them to do OP's laundry, but helping with dinner and clean-up is a must. Yes, I'd expect college-aged people to know better.

[Anonymous]

I have a vacation home where I host many guests, mostly family and close friends. Everyone helps out with cooking and cleaning up. If a kid isn't helping out and something needs to be done, I ask, e.g. "Would you please take out the garbage?" They gladly oblige and many times the teens and young adults take it upon themselves to wash dishes or tend the grill. That's just being a good guest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 5 year old knows silverware placement. It's called manners.

So poor people can't have manners? Because we live in a studio apt, and don't have a table. I doubt my 12 yr old knows exactly how to set a table. But she knows how to walk into the kitchen and ask "what can I do to help?", to clear her plate from someone else's table, and to say "thank you for having me" when leaving. She says please and thank you as appropriate. She just wouldn't know how to set a table, unless someone did one p,ace setting as an example for her to copy. I think she's got manners though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college age daughter (I assume) would have no clue what the proper placement of cutlery is on a table. My kids grew up doing sports after school and we didn't do a lot of eating at the dinner table. I think my college daughter is a lovely human and parented well. Her ability to properly place cutlery has zero to do with manners.

If these Relatives don't know you extremely well, loading and unloading dishes would be awkward. I would have no clue how someone else liked their dishes loaded nor where to put them away. I think if I tried to help someone else clean their kitchen I would stand there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

What I can tell you is that your disdain of your relatives and your personal opinion of their upbringing is surely not lost on them. I'm sure when they run to their phones they are probly texting "get me the heck out of here". I know I would be.

How did your daughter eat her meals? Standing up? Did she never eat a weekend or holiday meal at a proper
Table? I agree with you that table setting is quite a small pet of being a well mannered human being but if you somehow ate proper meals so rarely that your daughter can't tell you what a table
Setting looks like, that seems like you failed her on this level. I mean even restaurants have these expectations. Your daughter will have to eat in one someday, and she will hopefully be a house guest as well.

Small part, not small pet. Sorry.

Sure once in awhile we are holiday dinners at a table or the occasional weekend dinner at the table. I have no clue what order I put the cutlery in at the table during those times. I don't value it at all...I value the people sitting at the table. Don't give a damn if the spoon is on the inside or the outside of the knife. Because I don't value that as a parent does not make me a failure as a parent "in that area". It makes me a parent who does not consider that something important to focus on. And for heavens sake it's not like a life skill you learn from a lifetime of parenting...it's something you learn once in two minutes.

My kids would, I would bet, clean up their own messes as a houseguest. They would bring their dishes to the sink after eating. But I don't think they would proactively ask to load the dishwasher. They might say "can I help with anything" if everyone else was running around cleaning. They would definitely be on their phones most of the time. Heck I have my family at my house (my parents and my brother) and all of them are on their phones all day and night, as am I. I don't think a thing of it.

I'm not judgemental enough to make blanket statements about a whole generation of kids and parents nor clueless enough to think that my parenting was perfect.