Mean kids in PK - What's normal?

[Anonymous]

DD5 is in PK4 in DCPS. She's been reporting that several kids in her class (often together) have been being mean to her (knocking over her block towers and laughing about it, calling her names). She says the kids don't stop when she asks. When she tells the teacher and the teacher speaks to the other kids they say they'll stop but then start again once the teacher walks away, laughing the whole time. DD is a pretty reliable reporter and is extremely upset about the situation. She's a sensitive kid, independent, and has always been an old soul and the teacher mentioned at parent-teacher conferences that she's been an easy target for kids to pick on because she's not assertive. Is it normal for kids to behave like this towards their classmates in PK? Shouldn't the teacher be disciplining the kids who are repeatedly being unkind? Not sure what's normal for DCPS PK, but this doesn't seem right. Is it our school, our teacher, or should a just prepare my kid to have to put up with being treated like this? There are 15 kids in the class, a teacher, and a para.

[Anonymous]

One thing that will be helpful to you in your journey as a parent is to separate behaviors from people. In your language with your daughter and her educators, rather than talking about "mean kids," please consider saying "mean behaviors."

I know this sounds nitpicky, but it's important to label behaviors rather than people, because people change a lot! Especially in preschool and in the following years. And chances are that most kids at some point in time will do a "mean behavior" but that doesn't make them "mean kids" or "bad people."

To answer your question, yes, this is very common. But no, you don't just give up and prepare for bad treatment.

Empathize with your daughter while avoiding finger pointing at other kids who are also learning how to be little humans in a busy environment. Ask your daughter what she thinks she should do in certain situations. You can role play her talking to her teacher or responding to name-callers in a strong voice "That's mean. Don't call me that name." Practice that a lot.

Ideally the teacher will appreciate a heads up from you about what your daughter is experiencing. You can ask the teacher, "what do you advise that she should do in these situations?" Some classrooms practice different protocols and have different ways of calling out behaviors. Some teachers want to be told right away about mean behaviors and others want the kids to practice using certain phrases to try to work it out themselves first.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I wrote a response and it felt a little too personal. But from experience, yes, PK kids (including mine, sigh) can be mean. We moved from a school with very little SEL to one that heavily emphasizes it, and it has made a huge difference. As far as I can tell, kids are still sometimes impulsively unkind, but they’re working through it and learning better ways of dealing with their emotions.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it's because we are with a PK student, but I am just like, bullies exist in all stages of life. It's not like we don't care when kid reports above-style bullying, but we are more focused on teaching them the ability to self-soothe and have grit - walk-away play by yourself. Ignore them. Go sit by the teacher and color. If it becomes physical or theft is involved, we will send an email to the teacher. Otherwise, we try to let kids fight their own battles. And I don't have a problem labeling the kids - or our own kids if we see something happening - a bully. One can grow out of being a bully. It's not a terminal condition.

[Anonymous]

What school is this occurring at? This sounds like the teacher needs some coaching on the proper protocol for handling this. I bet my money that it is probably a non-Title I school where the teachers think they can do whatever they want.

[Anonymous]

My kid had a similar tough time around that age. In my opinion, a conversation with the teacher about how they start with class culture and expectations is helpful. So, what does it mean to be a part of our class community? How is that created with and communicated to the students? Kids this age can have these conversations and the more they are reinforced, the more helpful it is. So, behavior corrections bring students back to the agreed-upon classroom norms and everyone can be a part of upholding them. If the teacher doesn't know how to do that that's where a principal, division head, etc can help.

[Anonymous]

This does not sound typical to me. A mean or meanish kid in the class, sure, but the ganging up on, and having the teacher basically say it's your kid's personality that makes her a bully magnet? That's nuts. I would bring this up with the teacher, speak to the para separately (another adult who can/should be stepping in), and bring in a counselor or principal if it doesn't turn around. And I would want this addressed seriously if it was my kid getting picked on *or* my kid participating in the wrong side of the group dynamics.

The entire point of preschool is teaching social skills and how to learn in a group setting. This teacher is failing every kid involved - yours and the little "bullies."

[Anonymous]

Yes, say "mean behavior". There will definitely come a day when your kid is accused of doing something bad, and you'll appreciate the difference then. And remember, you are hearing your DD's perspective, and her feelings are real and no doubt she's being as accurate as a young child can, but there may be more context that you don't have.

You need to coach your DD to be appropriately assertive. It's a life skill that can only benefit her, and some kids need explicit practice so that they are comfortable using their skills in the moment. My DD, for example, said that she was telling other kids to stop, but when I observed the playground for a while, I realized she was only comfortable whispering "stop" after they had walked away. It was heartbreaking! But it wasn't an effective strategy and it was to her benefit that she practiced and learned to assert herself.

[Anonymous]

PreK is where kids learn to be social and act like a friend. Totally normal. It is abnormal if the teachers do not intervene and teach the kids to get along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PreK is where kids learn to be social and act like a friend. Totally normal. It is abnormal if the teachers do not intervene and teach the kids to get along.

The ganging up and picking a consistent target it pretty unusual for PK. I would suspect there is a ringleader, that's usually how it happens at that age. I am shocked the teacher isn't aggressively intervening specifically and with SEL content for the class. There was a kid in one of my children's PK classes that clearly had ADHD and so caused problems for other kids. He wasn't mean, but he was very impulsive, somewhat aggressive, loud, etc. Teacher was totally on it, but this was clearly a kid who need medication at a young age, if I'm being honest, so her efforts were only 75% successful. Understandably the other kids got annoyed and starting being mean to him. Even there, where the "meanness" was understandable, the teacher aggressively tamped down on it with a huge SEL focus, rewarding of kindness, explaining differences in personalities and how brains worked were often beyond our control like physical differences, etc. Behavior was basically eliminated in a month. Kids parroted back the teachers words to explain all sorts of unwelcome behaviors other people did. It was really impressive. (Btw kid is now -- educated guess, post-medication, since there was a lightswitch period -- a completely well behaved kid a few years later.)

[Anonymous]

The ganging up part is concerning to me. My kid is PK3 and obviously kids say unkind things to each other at times but it’s always addressed and never a bunch of them against one kid. And the 2 adults to 15 kids ratio should allow for appropriate supervision and ability to address the behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PreK is where kids learn to be social and act like a friend. Totally normal. It is abnormal if the teachers do not intervene and teach the kids to get along.

The ganging up and picking a consistent target it pretty unusual for PK. I would suspect there is a ringleader, that's usually how it happens at that age. I am shocked the teacher isn't aggressively intervening specifically and with SEL content for the class. There was a kid in one of my children's PK classes that clearly had ADHD and so caused problems for other kids. He wasn't mean, but he was very impulsive, somewhat aggressive, loud, etc. Teacher was totally on it, but this was clearly a kid who need medication at a young age, if I'm being honest, so her efforts were only 75% successful. Understandably the other kids got annoyed and starting being mean to him. Even there, where the "meanness" was understandable, the teacher aggressively tamped down on it with a huge SEL focus, rewarding of kindness, explaining differences in personalities and how brains worked were often beyond our control like physical differences, etc. Behavior was basically eliminated in a month. Kids parroted back the teachers words to explain all sorts of unwelcome behaviors other people did. It was really impressive. (Btw kid is now -- educated guess, post-medication, since there was a lightswitch period -- a completely well behaved kid a few years later.)

Ganging up? No that’s not normal. The teacher sounds like she can’t handle the kids. I sent my kids to private preschool and “ganging up” would not have been allowed.

[Anonymous]

It’s not really as much abnormal as it is a combo of the teacher not setting boundaries and not rewarding kindness. And the parents need to be informed. It actually is a bit of human nature going on - the weakest/runt gets pushed out. No one wants to be on the bottom of the social chain. Society sets the norms of behavior. We have to learn how to treat one another.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a mother Karen raising a baby Karen. Classic Karen victim mentality. But kids are mean and usually come from mean parents. I’m sure these 4 year old stories are inflated despite you describing your kid as an old soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, say "mean behavior". There will definitely come a day when your kid is accused of doing something bad, and you'll appreciate the difference then. And remember, you are hearing your DD's perspective, and her feelings are real and no doubt she's being as accurate as a young child can, but there may be more context that you don't have.

You yourself sound like a gaslighting bully. You've talked yourself into thinking you're nice, but you're a mean person who's on the side of the mean kids.