Why women are forced to doll up while men aren't?

[Anonymous]

Honestly…women of a certain age (and I am one) do not look fully polished without makeup. At the level she was interviewing for, that was a misstep. Sorry. Call it whatever you but it is the truth.

I don’t wear makeup on a daily basis, but ALWAYS wear it for any type of interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is true for so many things. My pet peeve example - Mens swimwear. Baggy! Pockets!

You can totally wear men’s swimsuits, you just have to wear a shirt too in most places. Honestly there are a ton of options out there these days. I wear a rash guard to the pool a lot of the time so I don’t have to wrangle kids and sunscreen for my back, and absolutely no one blinks an eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else surprised that someone who's getting a blowout for an interview wears zero makeup? It's different from not paying any attention to your appearance at all. Just wondering what her thinking was.

(Not saying that makes gender norms or discrimination based on appearance okay!)

During Covid makeup became less popular and a lot of women just focused on a natural clean look with healthy hair and skin. The trend continues. I also stopped wearing makeup as have a number of people I know. I’m mid 30s.

I'm mid 30s too and every woman I know who would think off a blowout would wear make-up, often pro.done for an interview. I'm sure it depends on industry. I'm MBB consulting/finance and image matters, particularly for women.

But we are talking about women smart enough to be hired for a vice president position.

Women who think “vice president” of some company requires a Mensa member. 🤣🤣

Anyway, the answer here is not the “patriarchy” and it’s not any sinister plot. It’s a very simple fact, which if you can just accept it will make life much easier: people don’t cease to be humans at work.

Successful women are expected to be physically attractive, stylish, feminine, very slightly flirtatious. Successful men can’t be gross schlubs, but expectations around appearance are lower. OTOH men *are* required to be more confrontational, have better stories, be funnier, less prone to drama and complaining, and more comfortable with criticism than their female counterparts (just to name a few). Take the good with the bad.

NP I will add that I love having the option to wear makeup and dye my hair. Men just have to accept the big pimp on their chin or rosacea while I can cover it up and people won't throw me shade.

I love that I have options of what to wear to work - dress or pants, heels or ballet flats, slacks or skirt, collared shirt or sweater. Men don't have a fraction of as many options.

I want to wear my hair long? fine. Decided on a pixie cut? cute. Men have to keep it neat and short, not much beyond that.

Started getting grey? Got my roots colored and no one gave me second glance. Doing that as a 45 year old man will get you mocked.

[Anonymous]

Because we live in a patriarchal society and if you think it won’t get worse look at Maralago

Project 2025 has plans women’s dressss down to your knees, men will pick your clothing

Women won’t have the right to choose their own clothing

Don’t believe it you live under a rock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter just landed a marketing role at a young hip company looking for someone with 1-3 years experience. Meaning 22-25 years experience old.

Every women in that marketing department is beautiful, outgoing, in shape, well dressed, right credentials and young. My daughter bought all new outfits.

They are sales people. For better or worse a lot of women jobs are PR, Marketing, Human Resources and those women are usually smart and good looking.

How is this different on a Wall Street hiring good looking in shape Lacrosse Bros in 3,000 suits to wine and dine.

Or big 4 Partners or white shoe lawyers who look like they came out of the casting department

For men lasik, dental implants and whitening, hitting gym etc are required over 50.

It's clear that you do not know many (or any) finance bros and big 4 accounting partners or white shoe lawyers if that is how you believe they look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women impose it on themselves, lol.

I WFH with an immediate team of mostly women. When it’s just women in a meeting, it’s highly likely that no one puts makeup on. Hair’s often wet or pulled up in a quick pony tail. Clothing is t-shirts and sweatshirts. No one blinks because we it’s a relief to not have to take the time to put on makeup or fix our hair sometimes. We know we’re getting our work done, we don’t care.

When the meetings expand to include more men, there’s an unstated expectation that you put more effort into your appearance. Not to attract, but to be taken seriously. The men, meanwhile, can show up the same each and every time. Throw a baseball cap on and join the Zoom.

I've posted about this before but for in-person events, I have the exact opposite experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are pale then you really need some makeup to not look washed out on Zoom/Teams. With light makeup I don't look like I'm wearing makeup, I just don't look like a ghost. I don't like looking like a featureless ghost so I spend 2 minutes every morning putting makeup on, then 10 seconds a couple times a day reapplying lipstick. Yes, men don't do this but it's also not that difficult to do.

But why should anyone care whether someone looks washed out on Zoom? That makes no sense to me, and I say this as a brown woman. It's sometimes woman who perpetuate the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are pale then you really need some makeup to not look washed out on Zoom/Teams. With light makeup I don't look like I'm wearing makeup, I just don't look like a ghost. I don't like looking like a featureless ghost so I spend 2 minutes every morning putting makeup on, then 10 seconds a couple times a day reapplying lipstick. Yes, men don't do this but it's also not that difficult to do.

This sentence applies to so many things that women are expected to do it adds up, day after day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dress for the job you want, not the one you have

“Picture Perfect”

…..and BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because we live in a patriarchal society and if you think it won’t get worse look at Maralago

Project 2025 has plans women’s dressss down to your knees, men will pick your clothing

Women won’t have the right to choose their own clothing

Don’t believe it you live under a rock.

I have zero plans to visit the insane one’s residence.

[Anonymous]

In my workplace, no one is forced to “doll up” - and no one really does it either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You consider Bezos, Zuckerberg, Nadella, Buffet, Gates, Pichai, Ellison attractive?

Very few of those rose through the ranks. Founders can look however they want. When you're mid-level exec, you don't have the luxury of looking unprofessional.

OP - yes, women are held to a different beauty standard and it's unfair, but I'll submit that women also enjoy more tools at their disposal for achieving those standards. As a man, if I want to fix or hide my physical shortcomings, I can't transform my face in the same way that women can. So the bar is sometimes set at different heights, but the ability to achieve those different heights also varies across genders.

Leave it to a man to twist gender discrimination against women to somehow paint himself as a victim. And I understand that you will NEVER get it. Get what's it's like to be a women held to gender standards and to have to go above and beyond to be considered for a job.

You don't have to "transform your face" to be taken seriously and get a job (though I'd say you can absolutely do facials, botox, and some other things that women use and i knwo that men do use). Women do. As this article illustrates. That's not just unfair, it's discrimination. And unless those appearance standards are job-related-and in most if not all situations they are not- it is illegal discrimination.

lol

me: "women are held to a different beauty standard and it's unfair"
you: "Leave it to a man to twist gender discrimination against women to somehow paint himself as a victim" and "you will NEVER get it"

Way to alienate allies. I hope your lonely rage brings you comfort.

Yes, you're such an ally.

And your assumptions are wrong. I'm married and not lonely. And not rageful. Just calling a spade a spade. Or in your case, a douche a douche.

[Anonymous]

Most of these ridiculous makeup and clothing standards women are “expected” to adhere to are put in place by… women.

Men are clueless about most of this stuff - if women didn’t do it en masse men wouldn’t know the difference.

[Anonymous]

Toxic femininity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You consider Bezos, Zuckerberg, Nadella, Buffet, Gates, Pichai, Ellison attractive?

Very few of those rose through the ranks. Founders can look however they want. When you're mid-level exec, you don't have the luxury of looking unprofessional.

OP - yes, women are held to a different beauty standard and it's unfair, but I'll submit that women also enjoy more tools at their disposal for achieving those standards. As a man, if I want to fix or hide my physical shortcomings, I can't transform my face in the same way that women can. So the bar is sometimes set at different heights, but the ability to achieve those different heights also varies across genders.

Leave it to a man to twist gender discrimination against women to somehow paint himself as a victim. And I understand that you will NEVER get it. Get what's it's like to be a women held to gender standards and to have to go above and beyond to be considered for a job.

You don't have to "transform your face" to be taken seriously and get a job (though I'd say you can absolutely do facials, botox, and some other things that women use and i knwo that men do use). Women do. As this article illustrates. That's not just unfair, it's discrimination. And unless those appearance standards are job-related-and in most if not all situations they are not- it is illegal discrimination.

lol

me: "women are held to a different beauty standard and it's unfair"
you: "Leave it to a man to twist gender discrimination against women to somehow paint himself as a victim" and "you will NEVER get it"

Way to alienate allies. I hope your lonely rage brings you comfort.

Yes, you're such an ally.

And your assumptions are wrong. I'm married and not lonely. And not rageful. Just calling a spade a spade. Or in your case, a douche a douche.

I'm not sure how pointing out that 1) the double standard is unfair and 2) unattractive men don't have many options makes me a douche. But okay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯