FCPS HS Boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Springfield district folks were fools in the past school board election when they voted Schultz out of office over national issues.

Schultz was the one who helped and supported the Daventry parents with their split feeder elimination. She worked diligently with them, even though they were mostly not from her political party, because she treated them as her constituents even though they were from opposing political groups. She worked for her constituents on school issues, and would have been counted on to fight like a bobcat if the school board started pushing to rezone her neighborhoods out of the pyramid to use the kids as political pawns. She was awfully trumpy, but on school issues, particularly rezoning issues, Schultz put constituency over party. Fighting political rezoning was one of her issues.

Now they lost that kind of representation on the school board, followed by redistricting thanks to McKay and the board of supervisors, that split their representation from Springfield district to Providence, where the primary school board representation is on Lewis and not their zoned high school, West Springfield.

I think many in that part of West Springfield are going to end up regretting the day they voted on local offices because of national politics. They basically voted against their own interests, particularly with regards to school rezoning.

Fair enough, but, just to reiterate:

Not a single school board candidate ran on a redistricting platform. That they feel they somehow have a mandate to do this is very misplaced.

No school board candidate anywhere would get elected by running on a redistricting platform. It is a necessary evil that school boards loathe to do - everywhere. FCPS punting it down the road for so many decades, it is now needed. An overall comprehensive change makes the most sense. It will not be popular - they never are.

We should ask Terry McAuliffe how successful your line of thinking is: Parents and constituents don’t want redistricting? Well, I’m smarter than they are and I know better than they do, so I’m just going to do it anyway.

Also, you say redistricting is now needed. Your view is in the extreme minority in the county.

Let's assume that parents keep stuffing their kids into West Springfield (already over capacity). Should we expand WS again before using the available
Space at Lewis? That is not a reasonable thing to do and parents don't get everything they want.

Surely you have this all figured out. I bestow on you the title of FCPS emperor to do your will over the objection of any and all FCPS parents and constituents.

You sound exactly like McAuliffe.

It's just simple logic and fiscal responsibility. Would you have a cap on how big WS could become?

Since you aren't zoned for West Springfield, it doesn't really matter or affect you as to how big the school is.

It is weird to have a fixation on the size of a school you are not zoned for, which doesn't affect you in any way, and where parents of students actually attending the school are not complaining aboht the size or asking to be rezoned.

At some point, your obsession with that school sounds a lot like vengeance and wanting to stick it to people who made other choices with their housing purchases, as well as wanting to disrupt the lives of other people's kids for something that does not affect you one iota.

Answer the question, how large should the enrollment at West Springfield be allowed to become before the decision is made to use the space at Lewis? Or should they just enlarge WS again? When they enlarged it several years ago they started with one number for the increase in size in the CIP and over the next two CIPs it increased twice. This was specifically to try to avoid ever moving students to Lewis. I mean some people on here have argued that the really huge schools are more efficient. Why not close Lewis and send some number of the students to West Springfield? Bigger is better after all!

Not the poster to whom you’re responding, but what’s your proof for the assertion that the bump-up in West Springfield’s capacity was “specifically to try and avoid ever moving students to Lewis”? It may have been based on an assessment at the time that economic conditions were favorable to adding more capacity without incurring huge incremental costs. In West Springfield’s case, at least, that may have been a good call.

I'll admit I don't have proof. They aren't going to put that in writing. If they had stuck with the original number I might not think this. It was gradually creeping it up in the subsequent CIPs that made it suspect. If they had shown such a large number up front someone might have suggested they move some students.

[Anonymous]

Let's sum this up. Most of the posters on here believe that boundaries are sacrosanct and should never be changed; and we have successfully divided our schools into the haves and the have nots and that is just the way it will be for all time.

Is that right? Are we proud of ourselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's sum this up. Most of the posters on here believe that boundaries are sacrosanct and should never be changed; and we have successfully divided our schools into the haves and the have nots and that is just the way it will be for all time.

Is that right? Are we proud of ourselves?

Yes. Apparently.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s one poster over and over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's sum this up. Most of the posters on here believe that boundaries are sacrosanct and should never be changed; and we have successfully divided our schools into the haves and the have nots and that is just the way it will be for all time.

Is that right? Are we proud of ourselves?

Replace “posters on here” with “FCPS constituents and parents” and I think you’ve got it right.

Fwiw, I think that the equity redistricting push goes too far, but I’m generally for fully funding education for all in the county.

I sleep well at night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's sum this up. Most of the posters on here believe that boundaries are sacrosanct and should never be changed; and we have successfully divided our schools into the haves and the have nots and that is just the way it will be for all time.

Is that right? Are we proud of ourselves?

It’s more like some posters believe that schools should artificially be divided into the haves and the have nots if that will provide them with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to screw those they perceive to have more. Aren’t you ashamed of yourselves?

[Anonymous]

Just realize that the School Board has the authority to make these changes and you would not be able to stop them. At best you could try to vote them out at the next election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just realize that the School Board has the authority to make these changes and you would not be able to stop them. At best you could try to vote them out at the next election.

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Of course, they'd have to consider whether an ill-informed flex would be the end of their political careers and do considerable damage to their party going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just realize that the School Board has the authority to make these changes and you would not be able to stop them. At best you could try to vote them out at the next election.

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Of course, they'd have to consider whether an ill-informed flex would be the end of their political careers and do considerable damage to their party going forward.

I agree with this. And I think it could cause a San Francisco-esque pushback, but McDaniel is not smart enough to adequately evaluate the risks here. Hopefully some of the others will come to their senses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Springfield district folks were fools in the past school board election when they voted Schultz out of office over national issues.

Schultz was the one who helped and supported the Daventry parents with their split feeder elimination. She worked diligently with them, even though they were mostly not from her political party, because she treated them as her constituents even though they were from opposing political groups. She worked for her constituents on school issues, and would have been counted on to fight like a bobcat if the school board started pushing to rezone her neighborhoods out of the pyramid to use the kids as political pawns. She was awfully trumpy, but on school issues, particularly rezoning issues, Schultz put constituency over party. Fighting political rezoning was one of her issues.

Now they lost that kind of representation on the school board, followed by redistricting thanks to McKay and the board of supervisors, that split their representation from Springfield district to Providence, where the primary school board representation is on Lewis and not their zoned high school, West Springfield.

I think many in that part of West Springfield are going to end up regretting the day they voted on local offices because of national politics. They basically voted against their own interests, particularly with regards to school rezoning.

Fair enough, but, just to reiterate:

Not a single school board candidate ran on a redistricting platform. That they feel they somehow have a mandate to do this is very misplaced.

No school board candidate anywhere would get elected by running on a redistricting platform. It is a necessary evil that school boards loathe to do - everywhere. FCPS punting it down the road for so many decades, it is now needed. An overall comprehensive change makes the most sense. It will not be popular - they never are.

We should ask Terry McAuliffe how successful your line of thinking is: Parents and constituents don’t want redistricting? Well, I’m smarter than they are and I know better than they do, so I’m just going to do it anyway.

Also, you say redistricting is now needed. Your view is in the extreme minority in the county.

Let's assume that parents keep stuffing their kids into West Springfield (already over capacity). Should we expand WS again before using the available
Space at Lewis? That is not a reasonable thing to do and parents don't get everything they want.

Surely you have this all figured out. I bestow on you the title of FCPS emperor to do your will over the objection of any and all FCPS parents and constituents.

You sound exactly like McAuliffe.

It's just simple logic and fiscal responsibility. Would you have a cap on how big WS could become?

Since you aren't zoned for West Springfield, it doesn't really matter or affect you as to how big the school is.

It is weird to have a fixation on the size of a school you are not zoned for, which doesn't affect you in any way, and where parents of students actually attending the school are not complaining aboht the size or asking to be rezoned.

At some point, your obsession with that school sounds a lot like vengeance and wanting to stick it to people who made other choices with their housing purchases, as well as wanting to disrupt the lives of other people's kids for something that does not affect you one iota.

It impacts taxpayers and neighboring schools. Perhaps your selfish views don't see that. Utilization of existing capacity is supposed to be one of the reasons to change boundaries - specifically so you don't build space you don't need at taxpayer expense. This is why the West Potomac boondoggle was so blatantly wrong. There was plenty of room at Mt. Vernon.

Well, no it doesn't.

The numbers are pretty clear if you chart per pupil expenditure based on category of student, average class sizes and number of teachers.

The expansion was a responsible fiscal decision since WSHS was under a full gut, down to the studs and wiring. Anyone who knows even a little bit about construction and budgets knows this.

The renovation actually came in early and under budget. How often can we say that?

WSHS is using full capacity, which is a fiscally responsible use of building space.

The school zone footprint is compact, one of the smallest in Fairfax County. This small footprint minimizes bus routes, bus driver pay, wear and tear on busses, commuting time for students, and reduces the impact on the environment. The WSHS bus zone is compact enough that they are able to have one driver do double routes and still get kids in elementary through high school to school on time, when in other circumstances there would have to be 2 drivers hired. This compactness was invaluable during the bus driver shortages over the past 2-3 years.

Your argument that the larger school with compact borders, efficient use of resources, less expenditure per pupil, a larger student to teacher ratio negatively impacts taxpayers in another zone with no connection to the school does not carry water.

I see WS and Chantilly families tout this feature quite often. Of course, WS and Chantilly can only have such a small catchment area at the cost of the surrounding pyramids. Lake Braddock and Lewis are taking the brunt of that with south-reaching boundaries. LB extends from the 495 beltway to the Occoquan. And on the other side Westfield has the pleasure of extending from the Dulles Toll Road to effectively the Manassass National Battlefield so that Chantilly doesn't have to. The impact on the rest of the communities is worth assessing.

Lake Braddock families aren't asking to be rezoned either.

Work on fixing your own school instead of trying to move other people's kids around like pawns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, some of us have already experienced the death spiral. So that really doesn't move me.

If you have school age children, then you knew the achievement levels of Lewis before you purchased a house there.

Not everyone is a transient. Some of us have been here a long time.

You wouldn't have school age kids then. Your kids would be adults or college aged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Springfield district folks were fools in the past school board election when they voted Schultz out of office over national issues.

Schultz was the one who helped and supported the Daventry parents with their split feeder elimination. She worked diligently with them, even though they were mostly not from her political party, because she treated them as her constituents even though they were from opposing political groups. She worked for her constituents on school issues, and would have been counted on to fight like a bobcat if the school board started pushing to rezone her neighborhoods out of the pyramid to use the kids as political pawns. She was awfully trumpy, but on school issues, particularly rezoning issues, Schultz put constituency over party. Fighting political rezoning was one of her issues.

Now they lost that kind of representation on the school board, followed by redistricting thanks to McKay and the board of supervisors, that split their representation from Springfield district to Providence, where the primary school board representation is on Lewis and not their zoned high school, West Springfield.

I think many in that part of West Springfield are going to end up regretting the day they voted on local offices because of national politics. They basically voted against their own interests, particularly with regards to school rezoning.

Fair enough, but, just to reiterate:

Not a single school board candidate ran on a redistricting platform. That they feel they somehow have a mandate to do this is very misplaced.

No school board candidate anywhere would get elected by running on a redistricting platform. It is a necessary evil that school boards loathe to do - everywhere. FCPS punting it down the road for so many decades, it is now needed. An overall comprehensive change makes the most sense. It will not be popular - they never are.

We should ask Terry McAuliffe how successful your line of thinking is: Parents and constituents don’t want redistricting? Well, I’m smarter than they are and I know better than they do, so I’m just going to do it anyway.

Also, you say redistricting is now needed. Your view is in the extreme minority in the county.

Let's assume that parents keep stuffing their kids into West Springfield (already over capacity). Should we expand WS again before using the available
Space at Lewis? That is not a reasonable thing to do and parents don't get everything they want.

Surely you have this all figured out. I bestow on you the title of FCPS emperor to do your will over the objection of any and all FCPS parents and constituents.

You sound exactly like McAuliffe.

It's just simple logic and fiscal responsibility. Would you have a cap on how big WS could become?

Since you aren't zoned for West Springfield, it doesn't really matter or affect you as to how big the school is.

It is weird to have a fixation on the size of a school you are not zoned for, which doesn't affect you in any way, and where parents of students actually attending the school are not complaining aboht the size or asking to be rezoned.

At some point, your obsession with that school sounds a lot like vengeance and wanting to stick it to people who made other choices with their housing purchases, as well as wanting to disrupt the lives of other people's kids for something that does not affect you one iota.

It impacts taxpayers and neighboring schools. Perhaps your selfish views don't see that. Utilization of existing capacity is supposed to be one of the reasons to change boundaries - specifically so you don't build space you don't need at taxpayer expense. This is why the West Potomac boondoggle was so blatantly wrong. There was plenty of room at Mt. Vernon.

Well, no it doesn't.

The numbers are pretty clear if you chart per pupil expenditure based on category of student, average class sizes and number of teachers.

The expansion was a responsible fiscal decision since WSHS was under a full gut, down to the studs and wiring. Anyone who knows even a little bit about construction and budgets knows this.

The renovation actually came in early and under budget. How often can we say that?

WSHS is using full capacity, which is a fiscally responsible use of building space.

The school zone footprint is compact, one of the smallest in Fairfax County. This small footprint minimizes bus routes, bus driver pay, wear and tear on busses, commuting time for students, and reduces the impact on the environment. The WSHS bus zone is compact enough that they are able to have one driver do double routes and still get kids in elementary through high school to school on time, when in other circumstances there would have to be 2 drivers hired. This compactness was invaluable during the bus driver shortages over the past 2-3 years.

Your argument that the larger school with compact borders, efficient use of resources, less expenditure per pupil, a larger student to teacher ratio negatively impacts taxpayers in another zone with no connection to the school does not carry water.

I see WS and Chantilly families tout this feature quite often. Of course, WS and Chantilly can only have such a small catchment area at the cost of the surrounding pyramids. Lake Braddock and Lewis are taking the brunt of that with south-reaching boundaries. LB extends from the 495 beltway to the Occoquan. And on the other side Westfield has the pleasure of extending from the Dulles Toll Road to effectively the Manassass National Battlefield so that Chantilly doesn't have to. The impact on the rest of the communities is worth assessing.

Lake Braddock families aren't asking to be rezoned either.

Work on fixing your own school instead of trying to move other people's kids around like pawns.

How do you propose people fix “their own school?” All FCPS schools are operated by the same school board? How do Lewis families do that without help from the SB and county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, some of us have already experienced the death spiral. So that really doesn't move me.

If you have school age children, then you knew the achievement levels of Lewis before you purchased a house there.

Not everyone is a transient. Some of us have been here a long time.

You wouldn't have school age kids then. Your kids would be adults or college aged.

Some moved here before having kids in their late 30s to mid-40s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the Springfield district folks were fools in the past school board election when they voted Schultz out of office over national issues.

Schultz was the one who helped and supported the Daventry parents with their split feeder elimination. She worked diligently with them, even though they were mostly not from her political party, because she treated them as her constituents even though they were from opposing political groups. She worked for her constituents on school issues, and would have been counted on to fight like a bobcat if the school board started pushing to rezone her neighborhoods out of the pyramid to use the kids as political pawns. She was awfully trumpy, but on school issues, particularly rezoning issues, Schultz put constituency over party. Fighting political rezoning was one of her issues.

Now they lost that kind of representation on the school board, followed by redistricting thanks to McKay and the board of supervisors, that split their representation from Springfield district to Providence, where the primary school board representation is on Lewis and not their zoned high school, West Springfield.

I think many in that part of West Springfield are going to end up regretting the day they voted on local offices because of national politics. They basically voted against their own interests, particularly with regards to school rezoning.

Fair enough, but, just to reiterate:

Not a single school board candidate ran on a redistricting platform. That they feel they somehow have a mandate to do this is very misplaced.

No school board candidate anywhere would get elected by running on a redistricting platform. It is a necessary evil that school boards loathe to do - everywhere. FCPS punting it down the road for so many decades, it is now needed. An overall comprehensive change makes the most sense. It will not be popular - they never are.

We should ask Terry McAuliffe how successful your line of thinking is: Parents and constituents don’t want redistricting? Well, I’m smarter than they are and I know better than they do, so I’m just going to do it anyway.

Also, you say redistricting is now needed. Your view is in the extreme minority in the county.

Let's assume that parents keep stuffing their kids into West Springfield (already over capacity). Should we expand WS again before using the available
Space at Lewis? That is not a reasonable thing to do and parents don't get everything they want.

Surely you have this all figured out. I bestow on you the title of FCPS emperor to do your will over the objection of any and all FCPS parents and constituents.

You sound exactly like McAuliffe.

It's just simple logic and fiscal responsibility. Would you have a cap on how big WS could become?

Since you aren't zoned for West Springfield, it doesn't really matter or affect you as to how big the school is.

It is weird to have a fixation on the size of a school you are not zoned for, which doesn't affect you in any way, and where parents of students actually attending the school are not complaining aboht the size or asking to be rezoned.

At some point, your obsession with that school sounds a lot like vengeance and wanting to stick it to people who made other choices with their housing purchases, as well as wanting to disrupt the lives of other people's kids for something that does not affect you one iota.

Answer the question, how large should the enrollment at West Springfield be allowed to become before the decision is made to use the space at Lewis? Or should they just enlarge WS again? When they enlarged it several years ago they started with one number for the increase in size in the CIP and over the next two CIPs it increased twice. This was specifically to try to avoid ever moving students to Lewis. I mean some people on here have argued that the really huge schools are more efficient. Why not close Lewis and send some number of the students to West Springfield? Bigger is better after all!

Not the poster to whom you’re responding, but what’s your proof for the assertion that the bump-up in West Springfield’s capacity was “specifically to try and avoid ever moving students to Lewis”? It may have been based on an assessment at the time that economic conditions were favorable to adding more capacity without incurring huge incremental costs. In West Springfield’s case, at least, that may have been a good call.

I'll admit I don't have proof. They aren't going to put that in writing. If they had stuck with the original number I might not think this. It was gradually creeping it up in the subsequent CIPs that made it suspect. If they had shown such a large number up front someone might have suggested they move some students.

Umm...

FCPS did not expand the footprint of WSHS beyond what was reasonable, if at all.

In one small section of the school, they added a 3rd floor to accommodate around 12 science labs. The previous science labs were tiny and dated. The new science labs are more spacious and can accommodate classes of 30 or so kids.

The office and counselors office was expanded to a workable space.

They also expanded the size of the music rooms, to a size large enough to accomodate a typical school band or orchestra, using the space freed up by moving science to the 3rd floor. And they added a black box theater classroom of around 35 x 35 feet, plus dressing rooms and a set shop, something all of the high schools have or will have when they hit their renovation. They got updated gym space, which appears to be where the bulk of the expansion went. The Library was also enlarged.

WSHS did not get oodles of extra classroom space to stick it to the Lewis kids. They got updated science rooms that would fit more than 20 kids, an updated arts wing where the classrooms and rehearsal space were increased in square footage, a bigger modernized library, and updated sports facilities.

With the exception of science classrooms, almost all of the additional space added in the WSHS renovation was adding square footage to theater, music, library and PE facilities to modernize them and allow those particular programs to accommodate more students, and office space. I don't even think they added square footage to the cafeteria, which would have happened if they were trying to create a monstrous sized school to avoid rezoning.

The premise of your argument is ridiculous, and not based on reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s one poster over and over again.

Completely agree.