Reasons why one would not accept TJ offer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

And what, precisely, do you believe the "disease" is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

And what, precisely, do you believe the "disease" is?

Some families can’t, won’t, or don’t know how to provide a nurturing environment with a focus on academics. The are many reasons for these circumstances, but none of them are related to equitable instruction or the school district not doing enough to close the gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

And what, precisely, do you believe the "disease" is?

Some families can’t, won’t, or don’t know how to provide a nurturing environment with a focus on academics. The are many reasons for these circumstances, but none of them are related to equitable instruction or the school district not doing enough to close the gap.

Are you suggesting that students who come from these families are now being admitted to TJ in significant quantities?

And as a follow-up, what do you suggest that students do who aren't lucky enough to be born into families that do provide these environments?

Wouldn't it be more impressive to you to see a student succeed in the context of their environment without such supports, even if the level that they reached were slightly behind what a fully supported (and in many cases, micromanaged) student attained?

For many of these families, their inability to provide these supports comes not from a lack of focus on academics, but from a significant need to focus on other things (food, shelter, safety). If you truly want to solve these issues, you need to vote for people who will swim against the consistent stream of wealth being transferred upward in society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

Even before that, as the infamous math emails show. (That was due to learning loss from the pandemic (which the faculty called "attitude") though so maybe you think it's okay?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

People spout this number as though it's supposed to mean something. What do you think it means, other than the fact that FCPS is now opening TJ's doors to more students who are merely "advanced" in math rather than "super-advanced"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

People spout this number as though it's supposed to mean something. What do you think it means, other than the fact that FCPS is now opening TJ's doors to more students who are merely "advanced" in math rather than "super-advanced"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

And what, precisely, do you believe the "disease" is?

Some families can’t, won’t, or don’t know how to provide a nurturing environment with a focus on academics. The are many reasons for these circumstances, but none of them are related to equitable instruction or the school district not doing enough to close the gap.

Are you suggesting that students who come from these families are now being admitted to TJ in significant quantities?

And as a follow-up, what do you suggest that students do who aren't lucky enough to be born into families that do provide these environments?

Wouldn't it be more impressive to you to see a student succeed in the context of their environment without such supports, even if the level that they reached were slightly behind what a fully supported (and in many cases, micromanaged) student attained?

For many of these families, their inability to provide these supports comes not from a lack of focus on academics, but from a significant need to focus on other things (food, shelter, safety). If you truly want to solve these issues, you need to vote for people who will swim against the consistent stream of wealth being transferred upward in society.

1) My comment was about ground up approach to equity in education, K-8, that may lead to better TJ outcomes for URM, but even more for equity in schools as a whole. This is a not a school issue.

2) Don't have an answer. Can't get new families. As you said, it's bad luck.

3) I disagree with your assertion that they are just slightly behind and so it's not as expected. Tests tend to tell the story a little clearer.

4) While people have free will, choice, and freedom, you will not solve those issues and I don't support taxing people to keep trying to find out this simple truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

Even before that, as the infamous math emails show. (That was due to learning loss from the pandemic (which the faculty called "attitude") though so maybe you think it's okay?)

The emails don't indicate remedial math instruction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

People spout this number as though it's supposed to mean something. What do you think it means, other than the fact that FCPS is now opening TJ's doors to more students who are merely "advanced" in math rather than "super-advanced"?

The issue is that it's closing its doors to many - if not most - students with geometry or higher in 8th grade (super advanced according to you)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

Even before that, as the infamous math emails show. (That was due to learning loss from the pandemic (which the faculty called "attitude") though so maybe you think it's okay?)

The emails don't indicate remedial math instruction

They indicated the need for it although it was not implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

Some posters are very committed to the false narrative about decline in standards. They prefer the rigged system where only wealthy students whose parents could afford to buy the test had a shot at admission.

96% had finished more than Algebra 1 before the class of 2025. That number is up to 30%+.

TJ has had to implement remedial math instruction since the class of 2025 began.

There is no false narrative. These are facts.

People spout this number as though it's supposed to mean something. What do you think it means, other than the fact that FCPS is now opening TJ's doors to more students who are merely "advanced" in math rather than "super-advanced"?

The issue is that it's closing its doors to many - if not most - students with geometry or higher in 8th grade (super advanced according to you)

The TJ door is closed to the majority of applicants. There are more applicants than seats...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A lot of these folks X" -> stereotyping a whole race based on experiences with a very small number -> racist.

If you got mugged by an African-American, would you go around talking about how black people are thugs?

DP. The person above is not stereotyping an entire race with that comment.

The fact that there are a large number of upper-middle class and "wealthy" Asians who are attempting to protect their prior privileged access to an exceptional academic opportunity says nothing about Asians more broadly.

The fact that by and large, they are not publicly joined by members of other races (except occasionally by people who are married to Asians acting in the self interest of their biracial children or Asian stepchildren) is what permits the person above to refer to the group as "Asian".

It is Asians who are making this argument publicly, but it is far from all Asians.

There is a school similar to TJ in NYC where they also tried to change the admissions criteria for similar reasons. The school was almost 80% asian and they talked about how asian families were buying their way into the school. Then it was pointed out that asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks or hispanics in NYC because they are all immigrants. Most of the asian students were on free/reduced lunch, a higher propiortion than the school in general which was about 40% free/reduced lunch. Money has nothing to do with it, it's all about race.

If money is what gets you into tj, there would have been more white kids. White people in northern virginia are wealthier than asians and yet the biggest absolute increase in population under the new admissions process was among white students.

It is clear that some parents want their kids to get great opportunities but don't necessarily want their kids to stress out and bust their ass to earn them.

Counter-point: the previous admissions process was incentivizing behavior that took "stressing out" and "busting your ass" to a deeply unhealthy level for many students, who would then get in to TJ and crash hard. It wouldn't appear that they were crashing hard because of the sheer volume of external support they were receiving, but the evidence came in the form of self-harming behavior.

The previous method was competitive and merit based. The current method looks pretty random.

Allocating social resources based on merit might create more stress but it also leads to more efficient allocation.
Academic stress happens everywhere, if those kids don't get into tj, their parents don't give up on their kids. The academic stress is still there.
It's not like tj has the highest suicide rate in the area.

Sure it does not. But is the idea behind admitting under-qualified 8th grade algebra 1 students and setting them up to face TJ rigor and inhumanely subject them to stress?

There have ALWAYS been Algebra 1 students who got into TJ. Indeed, for most of the school’s early existence, the majority of students entering were coming in from Alg1.

Some of the school’s most outstanding graduates, even in recent years, have entered from Alg1.

But you’re going to sit here and pretend that you care about them and their well-being as an excuse to advance your pernicious self-serving narrative that TJ should only be for kids who are in Geometry or higher - or that kids who are in Pre-calc or above should be automatic admits.

Alg1 TJ students do not need your support. They have been doing splendidly and will continue to do so while you cry your crocodile tears. Enough already with this nonsense.

And for most of MLB history most pitchers threw below 90 mph. The world has gotten more competitive.
Algebra 1 kids have NOT been doping splendidly.
By all accounts the algebra 1 kids struggle more frequently than the general population.
We should be making efforts to increase the rate of algebra ready 6th graders in every neighborhood.

You cannot impose equity at 9th grade while ignoring it from 1st through 8th.
You have to have aap kids in every neighborhood.
I mean if we can impose geographic quotas for tj, why not for aap?
If they never get into aap, it is not reasonable to expect them to be ready for tj in 9th grade.

1) There are still pitchers in MLB who are very successful throwing in the neighborhood of 90mph for their fastball. But if you really want to take the analogy there, I'll play ball (haha).

Yes, the average fastball has spiked in velo over the last several years. And you know what else has happened? Tommy John and thoracic outlet surgeries have gone through the roof.

Because parents are sending their kids to enrichment opportunities at an earlier and earlier age to get their kids throwing harder while they chase scholarships and MLB draft positions. Dr. James Andrews (the earliest leading expert in ligament surgeries for sports) has acknowledged that the overwhelming majority of kids shouldn't be throwing harder than 80mph before they're 16 because the ligament that is stressed doesn't fully mature until age 26.

There is a direct analogy between this phenomenon and the fad of hyper-acceleration in math as parents chase TJ admissions and elite college outcomes for their kids. And you know what happens? They get burned out and resentful.

Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be throwing 90mph in high school? Sure! Are there a few kids who are outliers who should be studying pre-calc in 8th grade? Sure!

But it's the craven attempt to manufacture those outliers that is damaging to the kids.

2) Every single progressive will agree with you that we absolutely should be making more efforts to improve outcomes for students from disadvantaged backgrounds in grades K-8. Every. Single. One.

But it is a false choice to suggest that we can't both do that and improve access to TJ for those groups through the removal of barriers that are so easily manipulated by the test-prep industry.

And if you genuinely want to take this ground-up approach, you have to be diligent about voting for progressives in every single local election who want to raise taxes on those who can afford to support improved public education and who favor rebalancing local budgets to prioritize fully funding advanced educational services in low-income areas of Northern Virginia.

You cannot simultaneously advocate for a ground-up approach to increasing access to advanced academics and vote for conservatives who want to slash funding for one of the nation's best school systems. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

Well both of you are wrong. It's parents and family, not the curriculum, that is the cause of these issues. At least in regards to FCPS, there is already a process to identify and nurture advanced academics in every school, just about. People have been trying to solve this equity problem for decades but always fail to realize they are always treating symptoms.

And what, precisely, do you believe the "disease" is?

Some families can’t, won’t, or don’t know how to provide a nurturing environment with a focus on academics. The are many reasons for these circumstances, but none of them are related to equitable instruction or the school district not doing enough to close the gap.

Are you suggesting that students who come from these families are now being admitted to TJ in significant quantities?

And as a follow-up, what do you suggest that students do who aren't lucky enough to be born into families that do provide these environments?

Wouldn't it be more impressive to you to see a student succeed in the context of their environment without such supports, even if the level that they reached were slightly behind what a fully supported (and in many cases, micromanaged) student attained?

For many of these families, their inability to provide these supports comes not from a lack of focus on academics, but from a significant need to focus on other things (food, shelter, safety). If you truly want to solve these issues, you need to vote for people who will swim against the consistent stream of wealth being transferred upward in society.

1) My comment was about ground up approach to equity in education, K-8, that may lead to better TJ outcomes for URM, but even more for equity in schools as a whole. This is a not a school issue.

2) Don't have an answer. Can't get new families. As you said, it's bad luck.

3) I disagree with your assertion that they are just slightly behind and so it's not as expected. Tests tend to tell the story a little clearer.

4) While people have free will, choice, and freedom, you will not solve those issues and I don't support taxing people to keep trying to find out this simple truth.

I appreciate the reasonable response.

I disagree that we should simply throw our hands up and tell children who aren't born into a specific circumstance that they're just plain out of luck when it comes to advanced academic opportunities.

The reality is that they are slightly behind. It's a relatively small number of kids who are now being admitted who are just one year of math less advanced.

I do think that your assertion in 4) is worth digging into somewhat. Is it your contention that the delta in prioritization of academics between Asian families and, say, Black families is so high as to justify a world where more Asian students were admitted to TJ in the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in its 35-year history to that point?

I would imagine that you know as well as I do that poverty significantly limits free will, choice, and freedom. We live in a society that tells a burger flipper that if they want a living wage, they shouldn't be flipping burgers - which tacitly acknowledges that we need burger flippers but that those people should live in poverty.