Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

[Anonymous]

Get a job, OP.

[Anonymous]

This is what you are paying for, husbands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

A clique is a small group. This is not small. So spare us your breakdown of mean girl behavior which is actually coming across as mean and ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That big clique will break apart when the kids hit middle school if not later elementary age. The kids will stop getting along, the parents will stop hanging out, families will move, the one who gets divorced will be frozen out … etc. etc.

I highly doubt this is a solid group of 15 people. The other PP was right and it was probably a mass mailing and open invitation to a larger group to go to this event. OP is so outside of that she didn't even make the mass email which should give her pause. Maybe rethink her social interactions and how she comes across.

That makes sense, I wonder if it was a PTA or student activity type thing? The Little League and swim moms are always super close knit, the soccer, basketball, and dance moms seem less so. (But even then … I’ve definitely read about the mom being frozen out of the baseball mom group when her DS starts struggling in the sport or whatever).

[Anonymous]

I have a great mom clique story. Gather round.

When my DD was in 1st grade, she moved to a new school. This is in DC, where school starts at PK, so by 1st, there are a lot of established family relationships at school. This was also a neighborhood school, and we got in out of bounds via lottery, so were "outsiders."

There was a pretty tight clique of women on the PTA. Normally I would avoid something like that, but the core five women all had kids in my child's grade, including three who had daughters in my child's class. Of course my DD became friends with their DDs. So I was going to be interacting with them no matter what.

I sucked it up, joined the PTA, and decided to kill them with kindness. I volunteered for things, was always friendly. They made it as hard as possible. Or, some of them did. One of them was actually nice and welcoming. But two were absolute jerks. One simply refused to learn my name or my kid's name for that whole first year. This was someone we saw DAILY and our kids were friends. Another one was not that extreme, but would just look right through me all the time, or would come up while I was talking to another parent and start a conversation with them with her back turned to me. Just major rudeness. The message was clear -- you are not one of us.

Then towards the end of that first year, they were doing the annual fundraising auction for the school. They were putting out requests for people to get local businesses to donate to the auction. Well, since none of these women had bothered to get to know me at all, they didn't know that I sit on the board of a local business association and have a ton of contacts with local restaurants and retailers, including some pretty big, popular names. I was able to put together about 20 auction packages to very popular local businesses in like three days, worth close to 20k. These wound up being some of the hottest items at the auction, and the event wound up raising over twice what it had raised the year before.

Suddenly all those women were my best friends. Or thought they were. For my DD's sake, I played nice but always kept them at arms length. We did playdates and I continued to help out with the PTA, volunteer for classroom stuff, etc. But I didn't socialize with them beyond small talk at school stuff, and when they started inviting me to moms nights out and other social events (things I'd mysteriously never been invited to before) I politely declined. They also tried to get me to run for an open role on the PTA, and I politely turned that down too -- I was happy to help out the school as a volunteer but I wanted to maintain the ability to no participate in things.

It all turned out fine in the end. My DD did not maintain friendships with those girls past elementary, largely because we lived in a different neighborhood and then DD went to a different middle school. It was easier to navigate the school once the ice broke with that group. But I never forgot that first year and how unpleasant most of those women were towards me, nor how quickly they changed their tune when they realized I was connected and could be useful to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

Women who act like what? It is not possible to invite every friend and acquaintance to everything- actually to anything if we are being real. There always has to be people that aren’t invited. It doesn’t make it clique behavior. If OP was there, then it wouldn’t be a clique? It wouldn’t be mean? That makes zero sense

[Anonymous]

Okay, if you don't want people have private friendships then go to and organize church events and block parties.

[Anonymous]

My mom story is that we sent our child to a community-based school and became friends over many years with other families. Now, we celebrate holidays together.

I feel like I have sisters. There are different groups and not everyone is friends with everyone else and that is fine. Lots of overlap and so on yet I don’t see the mean girl behavior that OP suggests.

Only insecure people would act mean, and I avoid those people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here—I didn’t ask for your kind opinions on my mom clique story. Believe the post asks to share your favorite mom clique story.

You sound like a peach.

[Anonymous]

I guarantee they are put off by OP and have no interest in hanging out with her. I wouldn't want to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a great mom clique story. Gather round.

When my DD was in 1st grade, she moved to a new school. This is in DC, where school starts at PK, so by 1st, there are a lot of established family relationships at school. This was also a neighborhood school, and we got in out of bounds via lottery, so were "outsiders."

There was a pretty tight clique of women on the PTA. Normally I would avoid something like that, but the core five women all had kids in my child's grade, including three who had daughters in my child's class. Of course my DD became friends with their DDs. So I was going to be interacting with them no matter what.

I sucked it up, joined the PTA, and decided to kill them with kindness. I volunteered for things, was always friendly. They made it as hard as possible. Or, some of them did. One of them was actually nice and welcoming. But two were absolute jerks. One simply refused to learn my name or my kid's name for that whole first year. This was someone we saw DAILY and our kids were friends. Another one was not that extreme, but would just look right through me all the time, or would come up while I was talking to another parent and start a conversation with them with her back turned to me. Just major rudeness. The message was clear -- you are not one of us.

Then towards the end of that first year, they were doing the annual fundraising auction for the school. They were putting out requests for people to get local businesses to donate to the auction. Well, since none of these women had bothered to get to know me at all, they didn't know that I sit on the board of a local business association and have a ton of contacts with local restaurants and retailers, including some pretty big, popular names. I was able to put together about 20 auction packages to very popular local businesses in like three days, worth close to 20k. These wound up being some of the hottest items at the auction, and the event wound up raising over twice what it had raised the year before.

Suddenly all those women were my best friends. Or thought they were. For my DD's sake, I played nice but always kept them at arms length. We did playdates and I continued to help out with the PTA, volunteer for classroom stuff, etc. But I didn't socialize with them beyond small talk at school stuff, and when they started inviting me to moms nights out and other social events (things I'd mysteriously never been invited to before) I politely declined. They also tried to get me to run for an open role on the PTA, and I politely turned that down too -- I was happy to help out the school as a volunteer but I wanted to maintain the ability to no participate in things.

It all turned out fine in the end. My DD did not maintain friendships with those girls past elementary, largely because we lived in a different neighborhood and then DD went to a different middle school. It was easier to navigate the school once the ice broke with that group. But I never forgot that first year and how unpleasant most of those women were towards me, nor how quickly they changed their tune when they realized I was connected and could be useful to them.

You catty rich witches seem made for each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

A clique is a small group. This is not small. So spare us your breakdown of mean girl behavior which is actually coming across as mean and ridiculous.

A clique is a small group but there is always an outer ring of hangers on with the most toxic cliques. No idea if that's what is happening in OP's situation, but the way this would work in the really unpleasant cliques I've encountered is there would be 2-5 women who are the "queen bees" and then maybe 10-15 who are deemed cool enough to hang with them and get invited to things. But the hangers-on are always on probation and can be kicked out for any reason, at any time. Plus if someone interesting enters their orbit, they can be added as a hanger on or even a member of the core group, depending on what she brings to the table.

So in this setup, it would actually be normal for a group to get together with 10-15 people, and who is invited and not invited would be political and intentional. It doesn't mean everyone there is a member of the clique, but they have the approval of the clique.

You can call me mean for spelling this out if you want, but I know I'm not the only one who has observed this, there are social science studies on it and books have been written about these behaviors. Many of these behaviors are likely thousands of years old and have to do with tribal dynamics, but they are dysfunctional in the modern world where humans are no longer forming social groups primarily to ensure access to food and water and safety from predators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

Women who act like what? It is not possible to invite every friend and acquaintance to everything- actually to anything if we are being real. There always has to be people that aren’t invited. It doesn’t make it clique behavior. If OP was there, then it wouldn’t be a clique? It wouldn’t be mean? That makes zero sense

I think OP's issue is specifically with the women she knew well enough in the group that it seemed odd they had not invited her. Like she is probably most hurt by the one woman she texted afterwards. Whether that woman was excluding her or not is impossible for us to know. But I do get why someone would feel hurt if a very large group of people they know and thought they were friends with all got together without inviting her. It's normal to feel excluded in that situation. There might be an explanation that makes it not a clique, but there might not. It does sound like OP knew at least some of the women in the group well enough for it to be strange they didn't extend the invite to her.

[Anonymous]

OP, are these women your friends, or not? If not, why would you expect to be invited?