Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all the 15 women defending themselves should begin discussing Jeff now....

Jeff, unlike the OP, understands what a clique is. So there's that!

He also understands that…

“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”

“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”

“the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”

“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all the 15 women defending themselves should begin discussing Jeff now....

Jeff, unlike the OP, understands what a clique is. So there's that!

The question is, what would Jeff do if he goes to a brewery on a Friday, 1pm, and sees 15 dads having beer together. He would probably join in because the other dads would waive him in to sit with them...

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what the full details of the scenario actually were, it boils down to this:

If your first reaction was judgment rather than empathy, or at least sympathy, you are a part of the "Mean Girl" stereotype.

Sympathy for what? OP didn’t post about it making her sad, she explicitly posted to make fun of them and get others to pile on making fun of other women and the mom clique stereotype (which she gave zero information in her post that would make this a mom clique, other than it was a group of mothers).

I didn’t read it that way at all. She was trying to inject some humor into the situation. I suspect if she had used some paragraph breaks, or said share with me one of your awkward Mom situation stories to make me feel better… it might’ve read differently also

So if she had written something completely different than what she wrote you would have read it differently?

I didn’t attempt to read for tone or backstory. It sounded like a very awkward uncomfortable situation all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all the 15 women defending themselves should begin discussing Jeff now....

Jeff, unlike the OP, understands what a clique is. So there's that!

The question is, what would Jeff do if he goes to a brewery on a Friday, 1pm, and sees 15 dads having beer together. He would probably join in because the other dads would waive him in to sit with them...

+1

Common courtesy is if you're group of moms having lunch for whatever reason at a winery and recognize another mom from your kid's class, you wave and say "oh hey! how are you?!" rather than act like you got caught doing something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what the full details of the scenario actually were, it boils down to this:

If your first reaction was judgment rather than empathy, or at least sympathy, you are a part of the "Mean Girl" stereotype.

Sympathy for what? OP didn’t post about it making her sad, she explicitly posted to make fun of them and get others to pile on making fun of other women and the mom clique stereotype (which she gave zero information in her post that would make this a mom clique, other than it was a group of mothers).

Many of us have the emotional intelligence to understand that OP was obviously posting out of hurt feelings at not having been included in this gathering. This was obvious from her post, as well as follow ups. I also don't see her attacking or making fun of these other women other than to call it a "clique" (which as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, it probably was not). She doesn't make fun of them for being at the winery or getting together or being friends or whatever. She's just clearly hurt not to have been invited and to realize that these women get together like this without her. That's why at least some of us were sympathetic, because we could see she was reacting from a place of hurt. I posted early on that the text she sent was definitely a bad idea and she should have just played it off like it was fine, but I also understand that when people feel excluded or ostracized in some way, they don't always think rationally.

But she didn't make fun of these women. She lashed out a bit. Not great, but not unrelateable -- I feel like I'd handle that better at this stage in my life, but I could imagine doing exactly what OP did (meaning the overreaction to seeing these women together) back in my 20s. You live and learn.

She drip dripped information and bit by bit we find out more. They don't all live in her neighborhood, some of them are in her kids (plural) classes and they are all SAHM. She's been trolling all along and people are still passionately defending her attempt to get women to go after other women who dared to meet midday without her as if its some giant conspiracy. So, another WOHM vs SAHM argument in disguise?

DP than the one you’re responding to and I think your post gets at why I’ve been so drawn to this thread.

I’m really bothered by the misogyny that is the basis of this post. OP didn’t simply say wow I’m bummed, I wish I had an invite. She described the situation in a negative light (clique doesn’t have a particularly good connotation) and continued to dribble out information as if how dare these women have the gall to meet up in a big group and socialize on a Friday. And then other posters jumped on the bandwagon adding comments that these women are drunks, frivolous SAHMs with nothing better to do, that this is why they’d rather talk to dads, that middle aged moms are the worst at being annoying to serve food, etc.

I am someone who often socializes in big groups of women. I love girls’ trips and mom’s nights out. I have text chains going at any given time with my closest girlfriends. I truly value my female friendships.

I feel bad for women who have so internalized societal misogyny that their knee jerk reaction is to think of it as a bad thing, lash out in a text, and then post online asking people to share negative stories about women. And the posters who are adding on and basically making the middle age equivalent to teen girl comments about “oh I’m not like other girls, I’m a guys’ girl.” Umm okay. Have fun hating other women and hanging with dads all the time.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like such an innocuous situation of a group of SAHMs who probably have a standing lunch outing and you ran into them, so of course it's awkward! They know you work so you've never been included, because that wasn't the origin of the outing.

You could've waved and explained your reason for being there as coordinating an event and they may have even invited you to join, which you could have shrugged off as "sorry, have to get back to work, maybe next time!"

The snarky text was your only miss here, and now you have to brace yourself for more awkwardness and division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like such an innocuous situation of a group of SAHMs who probably have a standing lunch outing and you ran into them, so of course it's awkward! They know you work so you've never been included, because that wasn't the origin of the outing.

You could've waved and explained your reason for being there as coordinating an event and they may have even invited you to join, which you could have shrugged off as "sorry, have to get back to work, maybe next time!"

The snarky text was your only miss here, and now you have to brace yourself for more awkwardness and division.

.


Or not. That group or the person that received your text may actually have more empathy than this board. I’d let it roll off your shoulders, follow up with your friend in person if you need to.

It’s probably not a big deal in the social structure of your school. I’d let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what the full details of the scenario actually were, it boils down to this:

If your first reaction was judgment rather than empathy, or at least sympathy, you are a part of the "Mean Girl" stereotype.

Sympathy for what? OP didn’t post about it making her sad, she explicitly posted to make fun of them and get others to pile on making fun of other women and the mom clique stereotype (which she gave zero information in her post that would make this a mom clique, other than it was a group of mothers).

Many of us have the emotional intelligence to understand that OP was obviously posting out of hurt feelings at not having been included in this gathering. This was obvious from her post, as well as follow ups. I also don't see her attacking or making fun of these other women other than to call it a "clique" (which as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, it probably was not). She doesn't make fun of them for being at the winery or getting together or being friends or whatever. She's just clearly hurt not to have been invited and to realize that these women get together like this without her. That's why at least some of us were sympathetic, because we could see she was reacting from a place of hurt. I posted early on that the text she sent was definitely a bad idea and she should have just played it off like it was fine, but I also understand that when people feel excluded or ostracized in some way, they don't always think rationally.

But she didn't make fun of these women. She lashed out a bit. Not great, but not unrelateable -- I feel like I'd handle that better at this stage in my life, but I could imagine doing exactly what OP did (meaning the overreaction to seeing these women together) back in my 20s. You live and learn.

Boosting this. In case op is still checking in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I once organized an outing with a bunch of kindergarten moms. My friend and I invited around 10 moms from the school that we liked. We couldn’t/didn’t invite 100+ moms. We invited the 10 moms we liked and were friends with.

Now my youngest is in first grade. She is in Girl Scouts. I am friends with some of the moms and hang out. If a group of moms who happened to have girls in Girl Scouts were out together and another mom who had a girl in Girl Scouts saw us, it would not be awkward for me. I am not friends with the other mom.

I could see an event like this being cliquey and considered "mean girl". A kindergarten mom event where only selected moms are invited. Sure enough, there's going to be a left out mom who is friends with one of the invitees and will wonder why she wasn't included, especially if it was a "kindergarten mom event".

Even the tone of your second paragraph strikes me as "cliquey". You don't care if you see someone, and you wouldn't feel awkward because you're not their friend. I've met moms like you. Never friendly to people unless they have something to offer, never friendly to new people. You sound awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Ran into about 15 or so moms from our elementary school having wine and apps at a local winery on Friday around noon. I was like WHAT???? I didn’t realize mom cliques are still a thing. They felt uber uncomfortable seeing me there. I texted one of the mom’s later and said I didn’t realize there was an invite only Friday gatherings. Bus stop interactions will be interesting on Monday! LMAO! Share your favorite mom clique story DCUM.

Why did you text that snark to the other mom. If it’s u comfortable that’s on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes, very much so. The deal is that some women never move out of the clique mentality of needing to have a group of women they are a part of that other women are excluded from. To them, this is just how life is and it does not occur to them that there is another way to do it.

The key is to not buy into it, OP. If those women want to go hang out together without you, who cares? You give them power by buying into the idea that they have something valuable that you are excluded from. They don't. Do you really think "Moms wine night" is super fun? It's not. That's too many people, most are probably boring. I'd way rather grab a drink with one of my longtime friends, or even one newish friend, than go spend an evening with 10+ moms from my kids school who I kind of know making small talk.

Adjust your attitude. Think "wow, thank goodness I don't have to come up with a lame excuse not to attend crap like this" and move on. You make it into more than it is by allowing yourself to feel left out. Embrace JOMO (the joy of missing out).

This is a nice response. While I also was put off by OP's attitude a bit, I could certainly empathize. And obviously, the vicious cliquey girls jumped all over it.

This. Some of the responses to this thread have been rational, even while telling OP that sending that text was probably not a good idea. But it should be obvious that many of these responses are actually emblematic of clique, "mean girl" behavior that SOME women love to engage in. People ripping OP apart, saying she was excluded because she's horrible (there is absolutely not enough info in this thread to conclude that, it's just a typical mean girl response "we don't like you because you suck"), refusing to empathize with the totally relatable feeling of wondering if everyone is hanging out without you, etc.

The obvious solution here is to recognize that women who act like this are not worth spending time on. They are playing a game that is rigged for them to win, even if you successfully get them to "like" you, it will always be conditional on them coming out on top and you making them look good. People like this are exhausting.

Being left out of a clique is always, always a blessing in disguise. Because cliques suck! They encourage group think and limit your social horizons, and they are the natural habitat of dull people who are incapable of independent thought and lack the maturity and character to just do their own thing without worrying what other people think of it. Cliques are dull and I don't know why anyone would want to be a part of one, especially after the age of about 25.

PP, you are the one who is exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I once organized an outing with a bunch of kindergarten moms. My friend and I invited around 10 moms from the school that we liked. We couldn’t/didn’t invite 100+ moms. We invited the 10 moms we liked and were friends with.

Now my youngest is in first grade. She is in Girl Scouts. I am friends with some of the moms and hang out. If a group of moms who happened to have girls in Girl Scouts were out together and another mom who had a girl in Girl Scouts saw us, it would not be awkward for me. I am not friends with the other mom.

I could see an event like this being cliquey and considered "mean girl". A kindergarten mom event where only selected moms are invited. Sure enough, there's going to be a left out mom who is friends with one of the invitees and will wonder why she wasn't included, especially if it was a "kindergarten mom event".

Even the tone of your second paragraph strikes me as "cliquey". You don't care if you see someone, and you wouldn't feel awkward because you're not their friend. I've met moms like you. Never friendly to people unless they have something to offer, never friendly to new people. You sound awful.

An adult woman is not a mean girl or cliquish for having friend groups and socializing with those groups. The cliquish behavior that I sometimes see is when a friend group is at an event like a school picnic or school volunteer event and they will not talk to or barely even so much as acknowledge other moms, even though they are part of a shared community in a shared space. Particularly if moms new to the area or school are there...it just feels so mean not to extend a welcome or hello. It's this "no new friends" mentality. That's the problematic behavior I see at this age. But I don't begrudge any women from socializing with their friend groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what the full details of the scenario actually were, it boils down to this:

If your first reaction was judgment rather than empathy, or at least sympathy, you are a part of the "Mean Girl" stereotype.

I understand that some PPs were rude in their delivery, but why wouldn't it make OP feel BETTER, not worse, to know that the majority of those hearing about this encounter, including Jeff, do NOT think these women were a clique, mean, or exclusionary?

But a few were really rabid about it, created massive analyses about OP’s character and experience.

Probably because of OP’s delivery! LMAO! They felt soo awkward about it! Bus stop will be INTERESTING! Emoji!
Why so brash? And how can OP know how they felt? What sane person would text a follow up?

I mean, I hope OP is trolling, or maybe had the experience but is being tongue in cheek, but ugh.

The irony of you drawing all kinds of conclusions about OP based on word choice in a brief DCUM post, but then claiming that OP could not possibly intuit whether there was an awkward vibe based on an in person interaction with women she knows/has met before. You and so many others are acting like you know everything about OP's character based on a few posts here, but when she says "they looked uber awkward" you're freaking out and saying she couldn't possibly KNOW that and what is her evidence.

No. I'm permitted to bring both common sense and my life experiences to interpret OP's or any other post. All signs point to OP being socially inept and immature and her therefore misinterpreting the situation and/or creating the awkwardness herself.

(Also, even if there was some palpable awkwardness it still does not mean these women are a clique or that OP was excluded.)

You are filtering very little info through your own biases. And if you are defending being unkind on the internet and tearing down OP because you deem her immature or socially inept, well, perhaps you should look in the mirror. Mean and immature on your part.

DP. I’ve read and reread the OP at least 5 times now, trying really hard to understand what some of you are trying to defend, and each time she sounds worse and worse. She might be a lovely person in real life and is just not good at relaying a story, but as far as this thread goes, her choice of words just don’t make a great case for her. If that makes me mean and immature, so be it.

We aren't trying to "defend" OP so much as ask that if you have helpful advice for someone you think is struggling socially, why can you not relay that in a kinder manner. Some of the posts on this thread are harsh and unnecessary. Just because it's anonymous you unload?

And some of you are really making some assumptions that seem...overstepping. That is all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what the full details of the scenario actually were, it boils down to this:

If your first reaction was judgment rather than empathy, or at least sympathy, you are a part of the "Mean Girl" stereotype.

Sympathy for what? OP didn’t post about it making her sad, she explicitly posted to make fun of them and get others to pile on making fun of other women and the mom clique stereotype (which she gave zero information in her post that would make this a mom clique, other than it was a group of mothers).

Many of us have the emotional intelligence to understand that OP was obviously posting out of hurt feelings at not having been included in this gathering. This was obvious from her post, as well as follow ups. I also don't see her attacking or making fun of these other women other than to call it a "clique" (which as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, it probably was not). She doesn't make fun of them for being at the winery or getting together or being friends or whatever. She's just clearly hurt not to have been invited and to realize that these women get together like this without her. That's why at least some of us were sympathetic, because we could see she was reacting from a place of hurt. I posted early on that the text she sent was definitely a bad idea and she should have just played it off like it was fine, but I also understand that when people feel excluded or ostracized in some way, they don't always think rationally.

But she didn't make fun of these women. She lashed out a bit. Not great, but not unrelateable -- I feel like I'd handle that better at this stage in my life, but I could imagine doing exactly what OP did (meaning the overreaction to seeing these women together) back in my 20s. You live and learn.

She drip dripped information and bit by bit we find out more. They don't all live in her neighborhood, some of them are in her kids (plural) classes and they are all SAHM. She's been trolling all along and people are still passionately defending her attempt to get women to go after other women who dared to meet midday without her as if its some giant conspiracy. So, another WOHM vs SAHM argument in disguise?

DP than the one you’re responding to and I think your post gets at why I’ve been so drawn to this thread.

I’m really bothered by the misogyny that is the basis of this post. OP didn’t simply say wow I’m bummed, I wish I had an invite. She described the situation in a negative light (clique doesn’t have a particularly good connotation) and continued to dribble out information as if how dare these women have the gall to meet up in a big group and socialize on a Friday. And then other posters jumped on the bandwagon adding comments that these women are drunks, frivolous SAHMs with nothing better to do, that this is why they’d rather talk to dads, that middle aged moms are the worst at being annoying to serve food, etc.

I am someone who often socializes in big groups of women. I love girls’ trips and mom’s nights out. I have text chains going at any given time with my closest girlfriends. I truly value my female friendships.

I feel bad for women who have so internalized societal misogyny that their knee jerk reaction is to think of it as a bad thing, lash out in a text, and then post online asking people to share negative stories about women. And the posters who are adding on and basically making the middle age equivalent to teen girl comments about “oh I’m not like other girls, I’m a guys’ girl.” Umm okay. Have fun hating other women and hanging with dads all the time.

Translation: I love mom cliques.

But seriously, the posts calling moms drunks are whatever are not defensible. But most of the posts in support of OP are not these. They are aimed at people who made mean comments about OP based on little information. You are honing in on a small subset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just hang out with different moms. The clique stuff abates later on.

No, it does not. These groups actually expand and solidify. The DC will join the same travel teams with dad coaches. Carpools form. Then exclusive sport specific summer training camps. Girls Weekends. Multi-Family Vacations. Social engineering: the DC will take each other to Homecoming, Prom. Parents will join same church. Parents will host huge parties for each other (40th/50th). Kids will serve as bartenders.

DCs will be the Mean Girls/Guys.

I am so glad that this is not actually true where I live. This is a small town or very insular suburb thing. My kids are not going to go to high school with the exact same group of kids they rode the bus with in early elementary, and everyone in my community has broader horizons than what you describe here.

PP and I’ve lived in the same suburb for nearly 25 years, sent 4DC through FCPS.

I know of what I speak. I do have my own group of friends, but it took a very long time-we found each other about the time our DCs were graduating.

Hmmm, so all the groups in which you interact have cliquey mean girls...which means that the common denominator is you...

Cliques form in/around schools/neighborhoods and then youth sports. I’ll throw PTA leadership out there, too. Nearly a cabal.