Why rich people don't feel rich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not rich unless you live entirely off unearned income.

True...so true. If you have to work or raise your own kids, you're not in the club. I'm not in that club, nor would I want to be. It sounds boring.

Hahahahhahahahhahahahha! Riiiiight.

It sounds awesome. I'd trade the grind in this air-polluted toxic-drinking-water no-good-schools city for a yacht and a beach house (or three) in a New York minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because you are not living a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills existence doesn't mean you aren't rich. Some people have an idea in their mind what that means, and feel they aren't reaching it. But facts are if you are in the top 2% of wage earns (250K), than you are rich, or upper class, using that standard. What the hell are the 98% below you if you aren't? It's time to embrace it. It's gonna be OK.

Three BILLION people in the world live on less that $2/day. Are you going to tell the folks in the US who are living on $50 or even $100/day that they are rich? The average income worldwide is $7K. Are you going to go tell the folks making $15K that they fine b/c they are making more than twice the average income? Don't pretend that cost of living means nothing. And you while you sound a tad judgmental about people's choice to save for retirement, college, etc., you should be damn grateful that as many people can and do choose do this with their money instead of spending it. B/c what would happen in 20 or 40 years if everyone decided that they are going to 'choose' to live the 'good life' and spend instead of save? Who will pick up the tab for their senior years when they are too sick to work, can't pay their mortgage, etc. Do you think society will allow for mass senior homelessness? No, but you betcha your kids' taxes will go up to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Why do we care how you feel? The fact is... you're rich. You are. Deal with it. If that's too much trouble, give me your money and then you won't have to think about it. Mmkay?

I feel fat today. Does that mean I suddenly gained 50 pound? No... I've just been lazying away a snow day. Sometimes I feel happy. Does that mean I piss double-rainbows? Nope.

No one gives a shit how you feel when we're making tax policy. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do we care how you feel? The fact is... you're rich. You are. Deal with it. If that's too much trouble, give me your money and then you won't have to think about it. Mmkay?

I feel fat today. Does that mean I suddenly gained 50 pound? No... I've just been lazying away a snow day. Sometimes I feel happy. Does that mean I piss double-rainbows? Nope.

No one gives a shit how you feel when we're making tax policy. Sorry.

And what would you do with that money if I gave it to you? Just curious. Would it really make any difference in your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's an apt observation. For me, part of the other reason I don't feel "rich" is the astronomical cost of living in this area driven by lots of well off people all competing to live and get services in the same small areas and trying to concentrate themselves as much as possible (in the suburbs at least) in order to avoid schools with larger concentrations of needy children.

I don't "feel" rich because people making far less in my home town (not in the boondocks but not here) live in way nicer homes w/ more space and better schools. I don't "feel" rich because what I view as essentials (e.g. child care I feel is quality, a home in a reasonably safe neighborhood, 2 cars for commuting in 2 opposite directions) consume large parts of my income and it's difficult (while saving - and not even maxing out saving recommendations either) to afford a home that's not falling down and both a reasonable commute and in a school zone that's not heavily concentrated w/ needy populations. But I bought shortly before the crash, so no need to restart this whole debate w/ people who bought in 2000 chiming in about how they feel loaded!

So, who's holding a gun to your head and making you stay in this area? No one. You made the choice because you do have a higher than average HHI. Stop complaining because a lot of people would be happy to have 10% of what you have. You had chidren and you knew, or should have known, the high cost of child care in this region as well as the high cost of living. I am sick and tired of people like you complaining Do you even, ever give thanks to God for what you do have or do you just wallow in selfpity because people in your home town have better houses, schols, lower cost of living. Move back ther or shut up.

[Anonymous]

So, who's holding a gun to your head and making you stay in this area? No one. You made the choice because you do have a higher than average HHI. Stop complaining because a lot of people would be happy to have 10% of what you have. You had chidren and you knew, or should have known, the high cost of child care in this region as well as the high cost of living. I am sick and tired of people like you complaining Do you even, ever give thanks to God for what you do have or do you just wallow in selfpity because people in your home town have better houses, schols, lower cost of living. Move back ther or shut up.

Do you ever try to make your life better or are you so busy being grateful for everything that you don't actually improve anything? Is everything that happens in your life 'good enough' or 'more than enough' just because somebody else has it worse? It is healthy to be grateful and also healthy to look a situation and see if it is as it should be or should be improved. B/c nothing good in this country came from accepting things as they are. Indeed, none of us, unless you are an American Indian, would be here if our ancestors were just grateful for what they had.

[Anonymous]

Question - Why is it that $250+ seems to be the bench mark for "rich"? I would argue that those falling within a very close range 50-75K in either direction would feel the sting the most. These individuals most likely carry large amounts of debt, as a result of education, none of which is tax deductible because their income is too high, they are probably married and therefore suffer from the marriage tax penalties, they do not qaulify for most first time homebuyers credits and at this income level most are paying much more for health insurance (as most employers base the rate off of salary) as well. Too add to this they are taxed porptionately more than others within their same tax brackets. $45K to someone who makes $250K is not the same as $1million to those who bring in $5-6mill. Additionally, one can argue that the majority of people in the upper tax bracets live in the same areas andtherefore face the same cost of living expenses. Safeway does not prorate their price of strawberries. I guess what I am saying is sure, you cannot compare a person who makes $45K with someone who makes $250K but at the same time you cannot fairly compare someone who makees $250K with someone who makes !.375million. It just doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Just because you decide to spend all of your high income doesn't mean you're not rich.

Just pointing out that someone with a high income may have been rich before they spent their money but once they spent it it is gone whether it was a good or bad choice and they are no longer rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with almost everything both the 15:29 and 16:03 posters said.

It bugs me to hear "high income" equated with "rich." These are two separate things. There are people with high incomes who have high debt and no assets- a negative net worth. At the same time, there are people who make a low income, but are savers, and manage to accumulate assets (like U-Va professor Larry Sabato, who lived on mac n' cheese and donated $1M to U-Va, all from investment proceeds and his academic's salary.) It is easier to become "rich" if you have a high income. But the bottom line is, you must live on less money than you make and save/invest the rest.

The term is High Income Not Rich Yet ("HENRYs"). This is the complaint about the $250k tax wars. In this area, a family could make $250k, but has two parents working, kids in daycare, student loans for the education needed to get the high-paying job, and a house in Loudon that has depreciated in value and now is worth less than the mortgage. That is not "rich."

It is much easier to be "rich" in the lower-cost of living areas where a real mansion (not McMansion) can be bought on a low salary, that doesn't require paying much in taxes.

You have a point, but not a good one. Just because you decide to spend all of your high income doesn't mean you're not rich. You could do the same things people that live on far less do, but you choose not to. If everyone could make the same amount of money in Iowa, as they do here, then more people would do that. But the reality is most of the time, lower paying jobs come with those lower cost of living areas. My husband and I lived in DC comfortably on 60K combined. Now we make closer to 130K and feel very fortunate.

I guess you rent and don't have any loans? I also assume one of you SAH, thus no childcare costs, when you made $60K? Apples and oranges to how dual income professionals live. Repaying student loans is not optional.

Repaying student loans may not be, but everything else is optional. Have you seen the thread where people are talking about how much they make and what their mortgages are? The problem with people complaining about feeling poor is they've forgotten what is a want and what is a need. No one needs to own a home (and certainly not with a $3000+ mortgage!) If you have a child you will need childcare, but so many people have convinced themselves that they NEED a nanny. There are thousands working low paying jobs in this same high cost of living region you are in. If they can do it, you definitely can.

I do rent and do have loans. Neither one of us stayed home. We both work full time and pay for full time care. And now we have two kids. We make more money but spend the same in rent. We don't want to spend an extra $1000 or $2000 to have a nice kitchen. So we stay in a small place and save money in every way we can. I've lived through not knowing what I'm going to eat for the day. Renting a room in a basement, with no car, no phone, nothing. So telling me that you're struggling with the 10K left each month is ludicrous. We have everything we need and then some.

So you don't plan to buy a home and build equity? How are your retirement and college savings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because you are not living a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills existence doesn't mean you aren't rich. Some people have an idea in their mind what that means, and feel they aren't reaching it. But facts are if you are in the top 2% of wage earns (250K), than you are rich, or upper class, using that standard. What the hell are the 98% below you if you aren't? It's time to embrace it. It's gonna be OK.

Three BILLION people in the world live on less that $2/day. Are you going to tell the folks in the US who are living on $50 or even $100/day that they are rich? The average income worldwide is $7K. Are you going to go tell the folks making $15K that they fine b/c they are making more than twice the average income? Don't pretend that cost of living means nothing. And you while you sound a tad judgmental about people's choice to save for retirement, college, etc., you should be damn grateful that as many people can and do choose do this with their money instead of spending it. B/c what would happen in 20 or 40 years if everyone decided that they are going to 'choose' to live the 'good life' and spend instead of save? Who will pick up the tab for their senior years when they are too sick to work, can't pay their mortgage, etc. Do you think society will allow for mass senior homelessness? No, but you betcha your kids' taxes will go up to pay for it.

Really, so you are going to count the billions of poor people living in Africa, India, rural China, etc. against the United States? I guess you want to somehow equate it to the difference between Iowa and D.C. It doesn't fly. The consumerism that has totally taken over our culture doesn't exist there. Not yet, anyway. If you live a nomadic existance, how can you even compare it to living a home, for example. It's just a totally fucked up construct you are trying to impose to back up your faulty argument. Roll in your bed of dollars, Richie Rich. Or key your own car to make yourself feel better.

[Anonymous]

Let's try it this way. I am rich, based on the numbers alone. No question.

Reasons why I don't feel rich, at times:

1) My parents were able to afford to send two children to college, debt free, AND own a vacation house plus one other investment property, all on one income. And it was a government income! My spouse and I have two incomes, one house and might be able to swing debt free college educations at a state school.

2) My dad had a pension, the old CSRS one. My spouse and I each have pensions, but are very small. Mine is less than $1,000 a month.

3) My social security full retirement age is higher than my parents' generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because you are not living a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills existence doesn't mean you aren't rich. Some people have an idea in their mind what that means, and feel they aren't reaching it. But facts are if you are in the top 2% of wage earns (250K), than you are rich, or upper class, using that standard. What the hell are the 98% below you if you aren't? It's time to embrace it. It's gonna be OK.

Three BILLION people in the world live on less that $2/day. Are you going to tell the folks in the US who are living on $50 or even $100/day that they are rich? The average income worldwide is $7K. Are you going to go tell the folks making $15K that they fine b/c they are making more than twice the average income? Don't pretend that cost of living means nothing. And you while you sound a tad judgmental about people's choice to save for retirement, college, etc., you should be damn grateful that as many people can and do choose do this with their money instead of spending it. B/c what would happen in 20 or 40 years if everyone decided that they are going to 'choose' to live the 'good life' and spend instead of save? Who will pick up the tab for their senior years when they are too sick to work, can't pay their mortgage, etc. Do you think society will allow for mass senior homelessness? No, but you betcha your kids' taxes will go up to pay for it.

Really, so you are going to count the billions of poor people living in Africa, India, rural China, etc. against the United States? I guess you want to somehow equate it to the difference between Iowa and D.C. It doesn't fly. The consumerism that has totally taken over our culture doesn't exist there. Not yet, anyway. If you live a nomadic existance, how can you even compare it to living a home, for example. It's just a totally fucked up construct you are trying to impose to back up your faulty argument. Roll in your bed of dollars, Richie Rich. Or key your own car to make yourself feel better.

Why don't you move to a communist country? It appears that would suit you. Hurry, there won't be many left soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's try it this way. I am rich, based on the numbers alone. No question.

Reasons why I don't feel rich, at times:

1) My parents were able to afford to send two children to college, debt free, AND own a vacation house plus one other investment property, all on one income. And it was a government income! My spouse and I have two incomes, one house and might be able to swing debt free college educations at a state school.

2) My dad had a pension, the old CSRS one. My spouse and I each have pensions, but are very small. Mine is less than $1,000 a month.

3) My social security full retirement age is higher than my parents' generation.

I go back again to 'standard of living'. You used to be able to live quite well in this country on a rather modest (by US standards) income. Now, to maintain those standards, you must be more than "rich" (make more than 250K) in order to live the lifestyle our parents had only a generation ago.

But we have more gov't services than we had a generation ago. So why has our standard of living regressed?

[Anonymous]

I feel rich. Damn rich! And we "only" make $200k. As several PPs have said, it's all about choices. Why do I feel rich? Countless reasons, but to name a few:

Since we got married 7 years ago, we have made the choice to live on less than one salary and save. Even when our combined salary was much lower than it is now. This made the year I took off after our twins were born pretty painless. We didn't save much that year, but we didn't burn through savings. And we fully recognize that many don't have that choice, but I would argue that's not the case for most of DCUM, certainly most of the posters on this thread. We chose to start in a small condo, take that equity and by a small house, and then take that equity and by a slightly larger house in a close in area with better schools.

Assuming nothing catastrophic happens, we are on track to have $1 mill in assets (home equity, savings, retirement) by the time we are 40 - that's 3 years from now.

Even though we suffered through 3 years of IF tx, we were spared from making some of the very difficult choices that some couples must make because we had the cash to pay for all the meds and treatment. No insurance. Spent close to $80k during that time.

We enjoy nice vacations every year, but instead of spending $7K to go to Beaches, we spend $3,500 and rent a beach front condo.

We'd rather pay for our kids' college tuition than private elementary school. If we sacrificed savings, we could stretch and do both, though probably not top tier private, but choose not to.


In 11 years, my grad school student loans will be paid off!!

Most importantly, there is nothing we need that we can't afford, and not much we want that we deny ourselves.

Yeah, we are filthy, stinkin' rich and have NOTHING to complain about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because you are not living a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills existence doesn't mean you aren't rich. Some people have an idea in their mind what that means, and feel they aren't reaching it. But facts are if you are in the top 2% of wage earns (250K), than you are rich, or upper class, using that standard. What the hell are the 98% below you if you aren't? It's time to embrace it. It's gonna be OK.

Three BILLION people in the world live on less that $2/day. Are you going to tell the folks in the US who are living on $50 or even $100/day that they are rich? The average income worldwide is $7K. Are you going to go tell the folks making $15K that they fine b/c they are making more than twice the average income? Don't pretend that cost of living means nothing. And you while you sound a tad judgmental about people's choice to save for retirement, college, etc., you should be damn grateful that as many people can and do choose do this with their money instead of spending it. B/c what would happen in 20 or 40 years if everyone decided that they are going to 'choose' to live the 'good life' and spend instead of save? Who will pick up the tab for their senior years when they are too sick to work, can't pay their mortgage, etc. Do you think society will allow for mass senior homelessness? No, but you betcha your kids' taxes will go up to pay for it.

Really, so you are going to count the billions of poor people living in Africa, India, rural China, etc. against the United States? I guess you want to somehow equate it to the difference between Iowa and D.C. It doesn't fly. The consumerism that has totally taken over our culture doesn't exist there. Not yet, anyway. If you live a nomadic existance, how can you even compare it to living a home, for example. It's just a totally fucked up construct you are trying to impose to back up your faulty argument. Roll in your bed of dollars, Richie Rich. Or key your own car to make yourself feel better.

Why don't you move to a communist country? It appears that would suit you. Hurry, there won't be many left soon.

Isn't it time for you to go shit on the help at the country club? While you're there, I'll pour sugar in your gas tank. Tool box!