Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

This is like saying you're reversing global warming by changing the labels on the thermometers.

If a student's gen ed class suddenly gets falsely labelled "accelerated", it won't help them. But if a student's accelerated class becomes a gen ed class falsely labelled as "accelerated", it will hurt them.

So this helps no one except admin who get to pay themselves on the back for removing disparities (curing global warming).

No, that wasn’t what was being proposed for VA. Pure fiction.

“Equity” programs are trying to get MORE kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

https://e3alliance.org/2022/08/29/call-for-advanced-math-policy-during-texas-88th-legislature/
"E3 Alliance research indicates that taking more advanced math courses in high school highly correlates with students enrolling in a higher education institution, persisting in their studies, and ultimately completing a postsecondary credential"

"we believe the time is now to amplify all students across the state, scaling these tested and refined practices into state policy during the upcoming Texas 88th Legislative Session."

"Our state-level policy priorities include:
*Opt-Out Policy for high-performing students enrolling in accelerated math starting in 6th grade.
*Math All Four Years for high school students."

California used the same language, but the reality was of course very different. These groups have proven their dishonesty time and time again. Spoiler alert: if it was possible to magically make every middle school class more rigorous with no drawbacks, teachers would have done so already.

[Anonymous]

The schools that struggle to get kids into Algebra 1 in 8th grade need a different approach to teaching math then the schools that already are sending kids into Algebra 1 in 7th grade and 8th grade. The students at the school are coming to school with very different backgrounds and levels of preparation, and I am not discussing outside enrichment vs no outside enrichment.

We need to move past the idea that the curriculum is going to be the same at every school and every kid is going to have the same oppertunities. We already know that is not the case for HS, some schools are able to offer more AP classes then others because they have more kids prepared to take those classes. We need to approach ES and MS the same way.

1) ESOL students in ES need to be in ESOL classes in ES and not dropped into a Gen Ed class with some support. MS and HS have separate ESOL classes for a reason, why we think that ES kids can be dropped into a 4th grade classroom with no knowledge of English and thrive is beyond me.

2) Title 1 schools need to think about how they group students differently. I am not so sure that traditional grade levels make sense. Grouping kids by skill level would probably work better. Allow the kids who are ahead or on grade level to be in one grouping, kids a bit below to be another, kids 2 or more grade levels below another grouping. Have classes that are grade level mixed where the Teacher can focus on specific skills and help kids get to grade level instead of having 5 different skill levels in one class, we know that is not working.

Giving the kids who are on grade level or ahead their own class starting in first grade is the best chance to identify and help poor kids who can do well in school in the future. Let them grow educationally the way that they can and need, that will increase the number of kids in Algebra in 8th grade.

Give ESOL kids a classroom that meets only their unique needs and help them learn English and the skills that they might not have learned before putting them in fully English speaking classroom. Help them build the skills that they need. I would guess that most kids would move out of the ESOL classes in a few years and would be in a better place academically.

But suggesting that we need a different approach to teaching poor kids and non-English speaking kids somehow means that we are saying the kids are stupid or incapable. In fact, it is saying that we see that there is an issue and we need to approach educating the kids differently that addresses the issue at hand. It is no different then saying kids with LDs or ADHD or Autism or something else happening need a different approach to education. You adjust the approach to meet the kids needs and many more kids can flourish.

Or we can keep trying to force kids into an educational model that is not working for them because we are afraid that it looks bad to admit that kids coming from pverty or near poverty need different approaches to learning.

[Anonymous]

6th grade algebra 1 is relevant to a microscopic fraction of students. People whining about wanting more 6th grade algebra 1 are the same people whining when colleges admit students who didn't take 6th grade algebra 1!

[Anonymous]

URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

[Anonymous]

Algebra1 in 6th grade comes naturally to those kids that have been practicing math since elementary. An entire three billion populated countries are able to raise their children with higher levels of math than United States.

In other news, US gets highest number of Olympic medals, but struggles to count them accurately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

If my kid needs more acceleration, I'm going to push for it. It's not my problem or my fault that other parents will then try to push their unqualified kids into early Algebra. It's not my kid's responsibility to be held back for the benefit of others. Math is the one subject where there's no benefit and potentially some down side to having a kid sit in a classroom where they've already mastered the material. There are a lot of diagnostics out there showing exactly which math instructional level is appropriate for any kid. It's not exactly rocket science to follow the levels given in the diagnostics.

If the goal is getting more URM or economically disadvantaged kids into 7th grade Algebra, then FCPS is handling elementary school math completely wrong. In FCPS with AAP, the kids effectively are only compressing 8 years of math into 7 years, which isn't much acceleration at all. Then, they're expected to skip 8th grade math to do Algebra in 7th. It would make more sense for bright kids to skip levels or compress levels much earlier if they've already mastered the material, and then spend more time with pre-algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Algebra1 in 6th grade comes naturally to those kids that have been practicing math since elementary. An entire three billion populated countries are able to raise their children with higher levels of math than United States.

In other news, US gets highest number of Olympic medals, but struggles to count them accurately.

We moved from Massachusetts and Algebra1 in 6th grade is allowed for qualified students and enrollment is a straight forward process. FCPS appears to be throwing up barriers, hurts URMs the most, as others have noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Algebra1 in 6th grade comes naturally to those kids that have been practicing math since elementary. An entire three billion populated countries are able to raise their children with higher levels of math than United States.

In other news, US gets highest number of Olympic medals, but struggles to count them accurately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

If my kid needs more acceleration, I'm going to push for it. It's not my problem or my fault that other parents will then try to push their unqualified kids into early Algebra. It's not my kid's responsibility to be held back for the benefit of others. Math is the one subject where there's no benefit and potentially some down side to having a kid sit in a classroom where they've already mastered the material. There are a lot of diagnostics out there showing exactly which math instructional level is appropriate for any kid. It's not exactly rocket science to follow the levels given in the diagnostics.

If the goal is getting more URM or economically disadvantaged kids into 7th grade Algebra, then FCPS is handling elementary school math completely wrong. In FCPS with AAP, the kids effectively are only compressing 8 years of math into 7 years, which isn't much acceleration at all. Then, they're expected to skip 8th grade math to do Algebra in 7th. It would make more sense for bright kids to skip levels or compress levels much earlier if they've already mastered the material, and then spend more time with pre-algebra

But this requires parental support which not all are fortunate to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

If my kid needs more acceleration, I'm going to push for it. It's not my problem or my fault that other parents will then try to push their unqualified kids into early Algebra. It's not my kid's responsibility to be held back for the benefit of others. Math is the one subject where there's no benefit and potentially some down side to having a kid sit in a classroom where they've already mastered the material. There are a lot of diagnostics out there showing exactly which math instructional level is appropriate for any kid. It's not exactly rocket science to follow the levels given in the diagnostics.

If the goal is getting more URM or economically disadvantaged kids into 7th grade Algebra, then FCPS is handling elementary school math completely wrong. In FCPS with AAP, the kids effectively are only compressing 8 years of math into 7 years, which isn't much acceleration at all. Then, they're expected to skip 8th grade math to do Algebra in 7th. It would make more sense for bright kids to skip levels or compress levels much earlier if they've already mastered the material, and then spend more time with pre-algebra.

The potential down the road impact, especially with algebra, is you end up with kids who test well because they can mimic steps demonstrated by the teacher but ultimately don't form the higher level of understanding needed to excel when they get to much more advanced math like calculus later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

If my kid needs more acceleration, I'm going to push for it. It's not my problem or my fault that other parents will then try to push their unqualified kids into early Algebra. It's not my kid's responsibility to be held back for the benefit of others. Math is the one subject where there's no benefit and potentially some down side to having a kid sit in a classroom where they've already mastered the material. There are a lot of diagnostics out there showing exactly which math instructional level is appropriate for any kid. It's not exactly rocket science to follow the levels given in the diagnostics.

If the goal is getting more URM or economically disadvantaged kids into 7th grade Algebra, then FCPS is handling elementary school math completely wrong. In FCPS with AAP, the kids effectively are only compressing 8 years of math into 7 years, which isn't much acceleration at all. Then, they're expected to skip 8th grade math to do Algebra in 7th. It would make more sense for bright kids to skip levels or compress levels much earlier if they've already mastered the material, and then spend more time with pre-algebra

But this requires parental support which not all are fortunate to have.

It takes less parental support to compress K-5th grade math than it does to skip pre-algebra. While I'm not a fan of the edu-tainment math apps in general, they could be used to let bright, disadvantaged kids follow a self-paced curriculum rather than be held back by everyone else. After a point, these kids could be folded back into a higher grade level class. Alternatively, at the end of each year, they could take the kids who earn high scores on the end-of year test and then give them the end-of-year test for the following grade. Any kids who earn high scores for that test should be given the option to skip a year of math. Either way, bright URMs and FARMS kids who belong on an Algebra in 7th path would likely have better outcomes if they skipped or compressed a level earlier, but essentially took M7H in 6th grade, rather than skipping M7H altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

This is like saying you're reversing global warming by changing the labels on the thermometers.

If a student's gen ed class suddenly gets falsely labelled "accelerated", it won't help them. But if a student's accelerated class becomes a gen ed class falsely labelled as "accelerated", it will hurt them.

So this helps no one except admin who get to pay themselves on the back for removing disparities (curing global warming).

No, that wasn’t what was being proposed for VA. Pure fiction.

“Equity” programs are trying to get MORE kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

https://e3alliance.org/2022/08/29/call-for-advanced-math-policy-during-texas-88th-legislature/
"E3 Alliance research indicates that taking more advanced math courses in high school highly correlates with students enrolling in a higher education institution, persisting in their studies, and ultimately completing a postsecondary credential"

"we believe the time is now to amplify all students across the state, scaling these tested and refined practices into state policy during the upcoming Texas 88th Legislative Session."

"Our state-level policy priorities include:
*Opt-Out Policy for high-performing students enrolling in accelerated math starting in 6th grade.
*Math All Four Years for high school students."

California used the same language, but the reality was of course very different. These groups have proven their dishonesty time and time again. Spoiler alert: if it was possible to magically make every middle school class more rigorous with no drawbacks, teachers would have done so already.

Agree with you completely. This “equity math” approach failed in California and it failed when tried in MoCo.

The person you are responding to posted the same chart about “E3” or “Equity Cubed” math, which Fairfax County Public Schools are trying to use to eliminate the AAP program.

Placing every child in AAP-level math sounds great, and E3 or “equity cubed” essentially does that.

E3 fits the title of this thread precisely, as it claims to be “equitable access to advanced math.”

However, when every child is placed in AAP-level math through this new E3 program, there is no more AAP.

And accelerated-pace learning under E3? The general-education kids will not learn at the accelerated pace used in AAP, so the whole class will have to slow down to the level appropriate for the slowest learners. Acceleration will be lost, and the kids who would previously have been in AAP will be bored, and likely lose interest in learning.

Sure - E3 claims to have anticipated advanced learners needing more/faster pace. E3 says they plan for occasional “pull outs” to give advanced learned a little extra work once in a while.

Pull-outs don’t work the way a dedicated AAP class works. Advanced learners absolutely will get far less under E3.

If your school adopts E3, it will be best for your child to switch to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM kids need algebra1 in 6th grade more than anyone else, ensuring URMs are more than likely to enter and succeed in engineering and science majors. There is solid proof that algebra1 in 6th ensures student takes atleast two years of calculus in high school itself.

Equity activists, especially the non-URM foxes, feel insecure letting URMs learning more math than they do.

1. you need algebra by 7th to take 2 years of calculus in HS - and you could actually do it with algebra in 8th if you double up in HS.

2. you don't need 2 years of calculus in HS to enter and succeed in engineering/science majors.

-engineer

And this is why parents are absolutely nuts, pushing for early math that doesn't necessarily matter based on made up assumptions, and potentially at the expense of kids who might get by well enough or "mimic " the teacher's demonstrated steps, but end up lacking in higher level understanding in the more complex classes down the road.

https://www.mathnasium.com/math-centers/littleton/news/algebra-too-soon-1816080540

If my kid needs more acceleration, I'm going to push for it. It's not my problem or my fault that other parents will then try to push their unqualified kids into early Algebra. It's not my kid's responsibility to be held back for the benefit of others. Math is the one subject where there's no benefit and potentially some down side to having a kid sit in a classroom where they've already mastered the material. There are a lot of diagnostics out there showing exactly which math instructional level is appropriate for any kid. It's not exactly rocket science to follow the levels given in the diagnostics.

If the goal is getting more URM or economically disadvantaged kids into 7th grade Algebra, then FCPS is handling elementary school math completely wrong. In FCPS with AAP, the kids effectively are only compressing 8 years of math into 7 years, which isn't much acceleration at all. Then, they're expected to skip 8th grade math to do Algebra in 7th. It would make more sense for bright kids to skip levels or compress levels much earlier if they've already mastered the material, and then spend more time with pre-algebra.

The potential down the road impact, especially with algebra, is you end up with kids who test well because they can mimic steps demonstrated by the teacher but ultimately don't form the higher level of understanding needed to excel when they get to much more advanced math like calculus later.

I agree that teachers should make better tests, so kids can't just memorize algorithms and plug-and-chug. The solution for kids who test well and get into early Algebra without having a true understanding isn't to bar everyone from acceleration. The answer is write better tests and get better diagnostics to identify both the kids who have mastered the material and are ready to move on as well as the kids who can get the answer for problems that are just like what they've done in class, but seem to lack a true understanding.