Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

Calculus is not required at community colleges. But any decent university college, first level calc is required. Law schools see that as taking on rigor instead of shying away from it. As the saying goes, a student was afraid of blood and scared of math, so they joined a law school.

I taught at 3 Universities and none of them required every student take Calculus. Calculus is not a graduation requirement for all students at any University that I know of. There are specific majors that require Calculus but that is limited.

And on the flip side, there are plenty of (STEM) majors in which not having calculus puts students at a disadvantage.

Yes, STEM majors, which a small percentage of the student body takes at most Universities. No one is saying that there are not majors requiring calculus. The original comment was surprise that so few majors require calculus. This is not a surprise if you have worked at a University.

Calculus is a great class to offer in HS. Most kids won’t need it in college, that is why HS should offer other classes as well. Some kids enjoy math and will like taking calculus. Some kids need it for their majors or even admission to specific programs.

Calculus is not an easy class for many people but that doesn’t mean you don’t offer it.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

The Advanced Math classes are available where there are enough students to take them. The schools that have enough students to take the classes tend to be MC and UMC.

Lower SES schools have fewer kids who are in a position to take those classes because the kids tend to arrive at school in K with a different base of knowledge then MC and UMC schools. The Education Gap starts at home when kids are toddlers. Studies show that as education levels and wealth increase, parents are more likely to read to their babies/toddlers. The more kids are read to as babies and toddlers, the more they are exposed to words, letters, sounds, numbers, vocabulary and all sorts of other academically important matter. The kids who are read to more tend to arrive at school ready to move through the ES curriculum pretty easily and quickly.

Poor schools have fewer kids arriving knowing their letters, sounds, numbers, shapes, and colors. The kids are starting behind. It has nothing to do with native intelligence and more to do with preparation at the most basic levels. The Dolly Parton book project is an attempt to bridge this gap by sending out free books once a month to kids who sign up. There are libraries for people to check out books. But both are only viable if the parents can read and see reading to their kids as important. Poor schools have fewer parents who can read and/or read to their kids.

FCPS, heck any county in the US, can do nothing about the education gap that starts at home. So yes, there are more advanced classes at wealthier schools. There are more kids prepared for those classes because the kids started with a stronger base. And then the parents could afford enrichment and tutoring. The parents are more likely to make sure their kids are going to school.

We cannot ask schools to fix a problem that starts at home for all sorts of known sociological issues. Schools do their best. It is why local norms for AAP make sense, it allows more of the top students at Title 1 schools to access AAP and move into a class where the pace will challenging them and hopefully prepare them for advanced classes. Hopefully this means that there will be more kids at Title 1 schools ready for Algebra 1 in 7th grade in the coming years. It is why Young Scholars makes sense, because it identifies kids who will benefit from additional time focused on academics. It is why smaller classrooms at Title 1 schools makes sense.

But in the end, all of those are not going to accomplish much if there is not support from the home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

The Advanced Math classes are available where there are enough students to take them. The schools that have enough students to take the classes tend to be MC and UMC.

Lower SES schools have fewer kids who are in a position to take those classes because the kids tend to arrive at school in K with a different base of knowledge then MC and UMC schools. The Education Gap starts at home when kids are toddlers. Studies show that as education levels and wealth increase, parents are more likely to read to their babies/toddlers. The more kids are read to as babies and toddlers, the more they are exposed to words, letters, sounds, numbers, vocabulary and all sorts of other academically important matter. The kids who are read to more tend to arrive at school ready to move through the ES curriculum pretty easily and quickly.

Poor schools have fewer kids arriving knowing their letters, sounds, numbers, shapes, and colors. The kids are starting behind. It has nothing to do with native intelligence and more to do with preparation at the most basic levels. The Dolly Parton book project is an attempt to bridge this gap by sending out free books once a month to kids who sign up. There are libraries for people to check out books. But both are only viable if the parents can read and see reading to their kids as important. Poor schools have fewer parents who can read and/or read to their kids.

FCPS, heck any county in the US, can do nothing about the education gap that starts at home. So yes, there are more advanced classes at wealthier schools. There are more kids prepared for those classes because the kids started with a stronger base. And then the parents could afford enrichment and tutoring. The parents are more likely to make sure their kids are going to school.

We cannot ask schools to fix a problem that starts at home for all sorts of known sociological issues. Schools do their best. It is why local norms for AAP make sense, it allows more of the top students at Title 1 schools to access AAP and move into a class where the pace will challenging them and hopefully prepare them for advanced classes. Hopefully this means that there will be more kids at Title 1 schools ready for Algebra 1 in 7th grade in the coming years. It is why Young Scholars makes sense, because it identifies kids who will benefit from additional time focused on academics. It is why smaller classrooms at Title 1 schools makes sense.

But in the end, all of those are not going to accomplish much if there is not support from the home.

We complete ask schools to address this problem. These days 80% of all resources are aimed at addressing exactly this. We've eliminated tracking and instituted honors for all among other things for this very reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

But they are doing so by watering down the rigor of the classes so it's easier to pass them. VMPI was all about replacing more difficult math with data literacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

This is like saying you're reversing global warming by changing the labels on the thermometers.

If a student's gen ed class suddenly gets falsely labelled "accelerated", it won't help them. But if a student's accelerated class becomes a gen ed class falsely labelled as "accelerated", it will hurt them.

So this helps no one except admin who get to pay themselves on the back for removing disparities (curing global warming).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

Ding ding ding! Most of the schools which needlessly block their students from advanced courses like 6th grade algebra are also less wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

Ding ding ding! Most of the schools which needlessly block their students from advanced courses like 6th grade algebra are also less wealthy.

I am not going to run the SOL data but there are about 30 kids taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade and I believe they were spread out over about 15 schools. The vast majority of schools do not offer Algebra 1 in 6th grade, to include a good number of MC and UMC schools. It has nothing to do with money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

Ding ding ding! Most of the schools which needlessly block their students from advanced courses like 6th grade algebra are also less wealthy.

Mosaic is one of the schools offering 6th grade Algebra I. It's a middle SES center that feeds from several Title I schools. This isn't a high SES vs. low SES schools thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the real problem that most of these advanced courses are only available at the wealthier schools?

Ding ding ding! Most of the schools which needlessly block their students from advanced courses like 6th grade algebra are also less wealthy.

Mosaic is one of the schools offering 6th grade Algebra I. It's a middle SES center that feeds from several Title I schools. This isn't a high SES vs. low SES schools thing.

Maybe it is more common in the MSs that start with 6th grade vs Secondary schools that start at 7th? We are not a title one zone but are a secondary school zone and it was really rare for anyone from our center to do 6th grade algebra as they would have needed to get to the secondary for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

But they are doing so by watering down the rigor of the classes so it's easier to pass them. VMPI was all about replacing more difficult math with data literacy.

The rigor would still have been there; the content was just shifting around a little. And a few bits were being replaced by more relevant content.

The net result would have been more kids covering A1 content in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

This is like saying you're reversing global warming by changing the labels on the thermometers.

If a student's gen ed class suddenly gets falsely labelled "accelerated", it won't help them. But if a student's accelerated class becomes a gen ed class falsely labelled as "accelerated", it will hurt them.

So this helps no one except admin who get to pay themselves on the back for removing disparities (curing global warming).

No, that wasn’t what was being proposed for VA. Pure fiction.

“Equity” programs are trying to get MORE kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

https://e3alliance.org/2022/08/29/call-for-advanced-math-policy-during-texas-88th-legislature/
"E3 Alliance research indicates that taking more advanced math courses in high school highly correlates with students enrolling in a higher education institution, persisting in their studies, and ultimately completing a postsecondary credential"

"we believe the time is now to amplify all students across the state, scaling these tested and refined practices into state policy during the upcoming Texas 88th Legislative Session."

"Our state-level policy priorities include:
*Opt-Out Policy for high-performing students enrolling in accelerated math starting in 6th grade.
*Math All Four Years for high school students."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic assumption of the woke behind VMPI is that blacks and Hispanics are not capable of learning of advanced math.

Nothing racist in that.

That’s not the assumption at all.

Equity programs are trying to get **more** kids in advanced/accelerated classes.

But they are doing so by watering down the rigor of the classes so it's easier to pass them. VMPI was all about replacing more difficult math with data literacy.

The rigor would still have been there; the content was just shifting around a little. And a few bits were being replaced by more relevant content.

The net result would have been more kids covering A1 content in MS.

A few bits? Hardly. VMPI was purportedly condensing four years of content into three, all the while adding data literacy content. There was a lot of rigorous math content chopped out to make way for making charts. The whole point of Essential Concepts was that it would only contain content that all students need to know. There is a lot of content that students not going to college don't need. Not only was rigorous content reduced, but what was left was going to be taught with an inquiry-approach which would have undermined student learning even further.

More kids covering A1 in MS? They might have had a spoonful more A1 than previously but not to any meaningful extent. Most of the 8th grade course would have been 8th grade topics, same as before, which is why that year generated no high school credit.