Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

Our ES looks at IReady and SOL data. The kids who belong in adv math are put in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

why? shouldnt they be encouraging taking on more advanced math similar to what texas does?

LoCo sends more 6th graders to Algebra I than Fairfax does. I don't think that's a good thing. Ymmv

(Texas is not sending large numbers of 6th graders to Algebra I, fyi.)

read the texas article... it appears they are enrolling students into advanced math and giving students a choice to opt-out if they find it too challenging.

"“About three years ago, around 20 to 22 percent of a cohort was enrolling in advanced math from fifth to sixth grade,” he said. “When we went to an opt-out policy, we’ve now increased that to between 35 and 40 percent of a cohort gets automatically enrolled in advanced math.”"

so in FCPS, why not enroll all six graders in algebra 1, and give the students an opt-out to step back. Instead of showing barriers to those who want to do advanced math.

Algebra I in 6th grade isn't advanced math, it's super advanced, triple advanced math. Not appropriate for 99% of kids.

you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

That still doesn't make it the standard advanced math track anywhere in the US. It means plenty of kids can handle it, not that everyone should be pushed into it.

The standard advanced track is 7th grade math, one year before pre-Algebra. Still. Everywhere.

thousand of kids across america are completing algebra 1 in 6th grade, and no one is pushing them. Every kid always has a choice to opt down. But URM kids dont know what their choices are, unless they have an educated parent. I am an URM parent by the way, and educated. When students are restricted from enrolling in above grade math, that also restricts them from discovering their basic potential. What texas is doing is making the option available as default, which benefits the poorly informed URM kids, and letting them opt out if they find it challenging.

from article:
"We have seen our advanced math enrollment numbers for all demographics increase," McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

Just because you keep quoting the article saying advanced math is going up does not mean that in that Texas district they enrolled everyone is Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

I have a kid who is good at math. She's in Math 7 in 6th grade with the rest of the AAP class at our AAP center school. In her grade there is no one in Algebra 1, though she has friends who wish they were (they didn't meet the stringent FCPS qualifications). Of those, about half will go on to take Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade and the rest will take Math 7 Honors. This is the standard US advanced math track. That's all people keep trying to tell you. And you keep saying that FCPS should enroll all 6th graders in Algebra 1 (honors or no you do not specify, but it would be a disservice to enroll a kid in a credit bearing class early if they weren't ready for honors).

they can always drop back. that's the lesson from texas. Dont restrict, given kids choice, and let them decide if they want to take it on or step back.

McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

I can understand there is a long held belief out there that students of poverty and students of color wont be successful in advanced classes. But McDaniel says, given them a choice and see. I say, give everyone a choice and see.

Race aside, if many more 6th grade kids are pushed into the Advanced Class, it stands to reason there will be MORE of them with an opt-out policy. What I would want to know is whether they excel, get by, or fail. "Opt-out" is necessarily stickier, and may burden the teacher and students if they are not well prepared.

Rather than going on about Algebra 1 in 6th grade, focus your energy and advocacy on Advanced Math which is prealgebra in 6th and 7th grade.

why are you limiting students of poverty and students of color from pursuing Algebra 1 in 6th grade, when there are many others who are doing it with ease in public school systems? The math teachers are encouraging accelerated enrollment by default, and opting out only if student wants to. People of color and students of poverty stand to benefit the most with this approach. Can you cite any research that shows that URM students cannot be successful with acceleration?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

why? shouldnt they be encouraging taking on more advanced math similar to what texas does?

LoCo sends more 6th graders to Algebra I than Fairfax does. I don't think that's a good thing. Ymmv

(Texas is not sending large numbers of 6th graders to Algebra I, fyi.)

read the texas article... it appears they are enrolling students into advanced math and giving students a choice to opt-out if they find it too challenging.

"“About three years ago, around 20 to 22 percent of a cohort was enrolling in advanced math from fifth to sixth grade,” he said. “When we went to an opt-out policy, we’ve now increased that to between 35 and 40 percent of a cohort gets automatically enrolled in advanced math.”"

so in FCPS, why not enroll all six graders in algebra 1, and give the students an opt-out to step back. Instead of showing barriers to those who want to do advanced math.

Algebra I in 6th grade isn't advanced math, it's super advanced, triple advanced math. Not appropriate for 99% of kids.

you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

That still doesn't make it the standard advanced math track anywhere in the US. It means plenty of kids can handle it, not that everyone should be pushed into it.

The standard advanced track is 7th grade math, one year before pre-Algebra. Still. Everywhere.

thousand of kids across america are completing algebra 1 in 6th grade, and no one is pushing them. Every kid always has a choice to opt down. But URM kids dont know what their choices are, unless they have an educated parent. I am an URM parent by the way, and educated. When students are restricted from enrolling in above grade math, that also restricts them from discovering their basic potential. What texas is doing is making the option available as default, which benefits the poorly informed URM kids, and letting them opt out if they find it challenging.

from article:
"We have seen our advanced math enrollment numbers for all demographics increase," McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

Just because you keep quoting the article saying advanced math is going up does not mean that in that Texas district they enrolled everyone is Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

I have a kid who is good at math. She's in Math 7 in 6th grade with the rest of the AAP class at our AAP center school. In her grade there is no one in Algebra 1, though she has friends who wish they were (they didn't meet the stringent FCPS qualifications). Of those, about half will go on to take Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade and the rest will take Math 7 Honors. This is the standard US advanced math track. That's all people keep trying to tell you. And you keep saying that FCPS should enroll all 6th graders in Algebra 1 (honors or no you do not specify, but it would be a disservice to enroll a kid in a credit bearing class early if they weren't ready for honors).

they can always drop back. that's the lesson from texas. Dont restrict, given kids choice, and let them decide if they want to take it on or step back.

McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

I can understand there is a long held belief out there that students of poverty and students of color wont be successful in advanced classes. But McDaniel says, given them a choice and see. I say, give everyone a choice and see.

Race aside, if many more 6th grade kids are pushed into the Advanced Class, it stands to reason there will be MORE of them with an opt-out policy. What I would want to know is whether they excel, get by, or fail. "Opt-out" is necessarily stickier, and may burden the teacher and students if they are not well prepared.

To ensure equity in math education, it's essential to enroll underrepresented students in accelerated math programs and provide them with the option to opt-out if they prefer. Often, parents from underrepresented minority backgrounds lack the knowledge or awareness about available math options compared to more privileged parents. Default enrollment in lower-level math courses perpetuates the belief that these students cannot aspire to achieve what other advanced students are already accomplishing. Many students across the nation are indeed learning Algebra 1 in 6th grade successfully. While wealthier families may make this acceleration through outside enrichment, it's imperative to offer URM students the same opportunities within public schools.

May be you should spend some time learning about the contributions of the likes of Benjamin Banneker, Elbert Frank Cox, etc., who were all accelerated learners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

why? shouldnt they be encouraging taking on more advanced math similar to what texas does?

LoCo sends more 6th graders to Algebra I than Fairfax does. I don't think that's a good thing. Ymmv

(Texas is not sending large numbers of 6th graders to Algebra I, fyi.)

read the texas article... it appears they are enrolling students into advanced math and giving students a choice to opt-out if they find it too challenging.

"“About three years ago, around 20 to 22 percent of a cohort was enrolling in advanced math from fifth to sixth grade,” he said. “When we went to an opt-out policy, we’ve now increased that to between 35 and 40 percent of a cohort gets automatically enrolled in advanced math.”"

so in FCPS, why not enroll all six graders in algebra 1, and give the students an opt-out to step back. Instead of showing barriers to those who want to do advanced math.

Algebra I in 6th grade isn't advanced math, it's super advanced, triple advanced math. Not appropriate for 99% of kids.

you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

That still doesn't make it the standard advanced math track anywhere in the US. It means plenty of kids can handle it, not that everyone should be pushed into it.

The standard advanced track is 7th grade math, one year before pre-Algebra. Still. Everywhere.

thousand of kids across america are completing algebra 1 in 6th grade, and no one is pushing them. Every kid always has a choice to opt down. But URM kids dont know what their choices are, unless they have an educated parent. I am an URM parent by the way, and educated. When students are restricted from enrolling in above grade math, that also restricts them from discovering their basic potential. What texas is doing is making the option available as default, which benefits the poorly informed URM kids, and letting them opt out if they find it challenging.

from article:
"We have seen our advanced math enrollment numbers for all demographics increase," McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

Just because you keep quoting the article saying advanced math is going up does not mean that in that Texas district they enrolled everyone is Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

I have a kid who is good at math. She's in Math 7 in 6th grade with the rest of the AAP class at our AAP center school. In her grade there is no one in Algebra 1, though she has friends who wish they were (they didn't meet the stringent FCPS qualifications). Of those, about half will go on to take Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade and the rest will take Math 7 Honors. This is the standard US advanced math track. That's all people keep trying to tell you. And you keep saying that FCPS should enroll all 6th graders in Algebra 1 (honors or no you do not specify, but it would be a disservice to enroll a kid in a credit bearing class early if they weren't ready for honors).

they can always drop back. that's the lesson from texas. Dont restrict, given kids choice, and let them decide if they want to take it on or step back.

McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

I can understand there is a long held belief out there that students of poverty and students of color wont be successful in advanced classes. But McDaniel says, given them a choice and see. I say, give everyone a choice and see.

Race aside, if many more 6th grade kids are pushed into the Advanced Class, it stands to reason there will be MORE of them with an opt-out policy. What I would want to know is whether they excel, get by, or fail. "Opt-out" is necessarily stickier, and may burden the teacher and students if they are not well prepared.

Rather than going on about Algebra 1 in 6th grade, focus your energy and advocacy on Advanced Math which is prealgebra in 6th and 7th grade.

why are you limiting students of poverty and students of color from pursuing Algebra 1 in 6th grade, when there are many others who are doing it with ease in public school systems? The math teachers are encouraging accelerated enrollment by default, and opting out only if student wants to. People of color and students of poverty stand to benefit the most with this approach. Can you cite any research that shows that URM students cannot be successful with acceleration?

I agree that 6th grade algebra should be handled more systematically by the county. My white DD could have benefited from it but she was at a center where they just didn’t really do that so it never came up.

But what you are talking about would dilute the class - making 6th grade algebra (which is triple advanced since “on grade” is 9th) open admit to all will water it down and have a lot of kids struggling. FCPS SHOULD maintain hurdles for algebra in 6th and 7th. What they need to do is actually look at the kids in EACH AAP class that are scoring off the charts on the math SOL and other testing to evaluate if Algebra in 6th is for them. Similar to how all AAP kids are evaluated for it for 7th and can take it if they clear the bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

While increasing math choices at lower end help with graduation and discourage dropouts, I dont get the idea of restricting accelerated and advanced math choices on higher end. Why put a lid on how much a kid learns?

Because we don’t have racial and economic equity in the groups of kids taking advanced math.

Until a group of kids with desired racial mix cant be formed, no one should be allowed to take advanced math? Or make access difficult?

Yes, exactly.

California has taken this approach:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

While increasing math choices at lower end help with graduation and discourage dropouts, I dont get the idea of restricting accelerated and advanced math choices on higher end. Why put a lid on how much a kid learns?

Because we don’t have racial and economic equity in the groups of kids taking advanced math.

Until a group of kids with desired racial mix cant be formed, no one should be allowed to take advanced math? Or make access difficult?

Yes, exactly.

California has taken this approach:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/

I keep trying to explain to the small-minded in the Harvard return to standardized test required model thread why the test is "biased." They need to come to this thread to understand that math instruction, from a young age, is not accessible for all--or even most, and that makes the test biased. When students are shut out from the possibility of success beginning in elementary school, there is no equity.

[Anonymous]

Uh-oh you said the E-word. Here come the miscreants and ne'erdowells for whom that is a trigger word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

why? shouldnt they be encouraging taking on more advanced math similar to what texas does?

LoCo sends more 6th graders to Algebra I than Fairfax does. I don't think that's a good thing. Ymmv

(Texas is not sending large numbers of 6th graders to Algebra I, fyi.)

read the texas article... it appears they are enrolling students into advanced math and giving students a choice to opt-out if they find it too challenging.

"“About three years ago, around 20 to 22 percent of a cohort was enrolling in advanced math from fifth to sixth grade,” he said. “When we went to an opt-out policy, we’ve now increased that to between 35 and 40 percent of a cohort gets automatically enrolled in advanced math.”"

so in FCPS, why not enroll all six graders in algebra 1, and give the students an opt-out to step back. Instead of showing barriers to those who want to do advanced math.

Algebra I in 6th grade isn't advanced math, it's super advanced, triple advanced math. Not appropriate for 99% of kids.

you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

That still doesn't make it the standard advanced math track anywhere in the US. It means plenty of kids can handle it, not that everyone should be pushed into it.

The standard advanced track is 7th grade math, one year before pre-Algebra. Still. Everywhere.

thousand of kids across america are completing algebra 1 in 6th grade, and no one is pushing them. Every kid always has a choice to opt down. But URM kids dont know what their choices are, unless they have an educated parent. I am an URM parent by the way, and educated. When students are restricted from enrolling in above grade math, that also restricts them from discovering their basic potential. What texas is doing is making the option available as default, which benefits the poorly informed URM kids, and letting them opt out if they find it challenging.

from article:
"We have seen our advanced math enrollment numbers for all demographics increase," McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

Just because you keep quoting the article saying advanced math is going up does not mean that in that Texas district they enrolled everyone is Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

I have a kid who is good at math. She's in Math 7 in 6th grade with the rest of the AAP class at our AAP center school. In her grade there is no one in Algebra 1, though she has friends who wish they were (they didn't meet the stringent FCPS qualifications). Of those, about half will go on to take Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade and the rest will take Math 7 Honors. This is the standard US advanced math track. That's all people keep trying to tell you. And you keep saying that FCPS should enroll all 6th graders in Algebra 1 (honors or no you do not specify, but it would be a disservice to enroll a kid in a credit bearing class early if they weren't ready for honors).

they can always drop back. that's the lesson from texas. Dont restrict, given kids choice, and let them decide if they want to take it on or step back.

McDaniel said. "But specifically with students of poverty and students of color, we have seen an increase in the number of students in advanced math tracks."

I can understand there is a long held belief out there that students of poverty and students of color wont be successful in advanced classes. But McDaniel says, given them a choice and see. I say, give everyone a choice and see.

Race aside, if many more 6th grade kids are pushed into the Advanced Class, it stands to reason there will be MORE of them with an opt-out policy. What I would want to know is whether they excel, get by, or fail. "Opt-out" is necessarily stickier, and may burden the teacher and students if they are not well prepared.

To ensure equity in math education, it's essential to enroll underrepresented students in accelerated math programs and provide them with the option to opt-out if they prefer. Often, parents from underrepresented minority backgrounds lack the knowledge or awareness about available math options compared to more privileged parents. Default enrollment in lower-level math courses perpetuates the belief that these students cannot aspire to achieve what other advanced students are already accomplishing. Many students across the nation are indeed learning Algebra 1 in 6th grade successfully. While wealthier families may make this acceleration through outside enrichment, it's imperative to offer URM students the same opportunities within public schools.

May be you should spend some time learning about the contributions of the likes of Benjamin Banneker, Elbert Frank Cox, etc., who were all accelerated learners.

If there is going to be "default" enrollment in Algebra I in 6th grade (which will count toward the student's high school GPA and have some bearing on college admission), there needs to be a very, very high bar, no matter the student's race because this is pushing down what is usually a high school class to the first year of middle school. Are if you advocate for this, are you okay if this results in a disproportionately small group of URM who make the cut? Likewise, if some students (of any demographic) do poorly, are you okay with them having to repeat the course or is everyone going to have to pass by "default?"

[Anonymous]

For my part, I would be more impressed with the Fairfax School County Board if they would talk less about equity and actually DO MORE — especially for those in Title 1 elementary schools. Put more teaching / academic resources into the Title 1 elementary schools so all of those students have a fair shot at life.

Talk is cheap. Fairfax County School Board is “No Action, Talk Only”. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

I'm frustrated that some FCPS schools put Level 2 and 3 kids in advanced math and others do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are you limiting students of poverty and students of color from pursuing Algebra 1 in 6th grade, when there are many others who are doing it with ease in public school systems?

The math teachers are encouraging accelerated enrollment by default, and opting out only if student wants to. People of color and students of poverty stand to benefit the most with this approach.

+1, though I think it is an issue with lack of academic supports for students in economically deprived communities - of any ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For my part, I would be more impressed with the Fairfax School County Board if they would talk less about equity and actually DO MORE — especially for those in Title 1 elementary schools. Put more teaching / academic resources into the Title 1 elementary schools so all of those students have a fair shot at life.

Talk is cheap. Fairfax County School Board is “No Action, Talk Only”. Sigh.

The Title 1 schools have lots of resources. Extra funding, small class sizes, the best teachers and administrators, etc.

The reason the students struggle has nothing to do with the schools and cannot be fixed by the schools. Although the schools are trying very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh-oh you said the E-word. Here come the miscreants and ne'erdowells for whom that is a trigger word.

It's really just one deranged poster who has been filling up the last few pages of this thread with her nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For my part, I would be more impressed with the Fairfax School County Board if they would talk less about equity and actually DO MORE — especially for those in Title 1 elementary schools. Put more teaching / academic resources into the Title 1 elementary schools so all of those students have a fair shot at life.

Talk is cheap. Fairfax County School Board is “No Action, Talk Only”. Sigh.

Title 1 schools have smaller class sizes and more reading and math specialists. They offer tutoring and invite most the kids to summer camp/school at no cost. The school sends home books to keep for reading. There are social workers at the school to help families.

The kids don’t attend the tutoring or summer programs. The kids don’t do the homework that is sent home.

The schools cannot do much for kids whose parents don’t care or utilize the offerings from the school. I have no idea what else you think the schools can do.