Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

They wanted to ADD options that are more relevant for non-STEM majors. They weren’t eliminating calculus.

I am pretty sure that most schools had the classes that were being added.

What they were doing was blending courses, so there wouldn't be Algebra and Geometry but whatever they were calling the class. I guess Essential Math 1 and 2.

Nothing in their graphic explained that Essential Math 1 and 2 where this blended Algebra Geometry concept, which was confusing. I remember watching a video where the students spent a good amount of time complaining about how hard Tri, Precalculus and Calculus were. Then they had FCPS Alumni who were in college talking about how they never used those classes and how those classes had been a waste of time. All to introduce these "new" math classes that were more practical. All of which ignored that there were already stats classes and classes that were meant to be more practical math usage.

They were also removing the Advanced Math option in ES and the ability to take the grade 9 and 10 math, traditionally Algebra and Geometry, in 7th and 8th grade.

Essentially, they did a crap job of explaining that Algebra and Geometry were still being taught, just in a different manner. The videos I saw sure made it sound like the approach was being taken because 1) math was hard 2) higher level math was useless. Finally, they were clearly eliminating the Advanced Math path in ES which meant that kids who were already bored in Advanced Math would be even more bored in the new program.

I remember looking over the material that they had on the website, watching the videos they posted, and being shocked enough at how it was being presented that I wrote to all the candidates and said that I would not vote for anyone supporting this change. They did a lousey job with their marketing.

Thanks, PP, for this summary, and it’s generally what I recall as well.

When the VMPI advocates were claiming nothing was being taken away, lots of things were being added, and it was only about access, it all sounded impossible.

And it was. Hidden in the details were clear plans to eliminate calculus for nearly all students, with a vague promise the might be a “potential pathway,” but no promises and not for most students.

I also recall VMPI would have delayed Algebra for nearly all student subjects until 9th grade, but when challenged, the VMPI advocates again made vague promises about “potential pathways could exist” or how “an individual school could be potentially be allowed the possibility of maintaining different classes.”

VMPI was presented in the most misleading and deceitful way possible at the time. Hope it never comes back, as it was clearly a deeply flawed plan.

All false. Stop spreading misinformation.

Nope. Earlier PP is right. They wanted to basically not have any advancement in math until 11th. If you listened to their webinars this was clear - all kids doing the same math classes for K-10 was a major part of VMPI.

So major that they forgot to include it in the infographic? No. It was a topic for discussion but wasn’t a major component like integrated math and expanding math options.

They always included AP and IB, which requires 8th grade algebra 1.

Anyway, let’s say there was some great conspiracy to sneak it in. It’s not like they could have gotten it past public reviews and GA/governor approval if it were unpopular.

So much faux hysteria.

It's pretty clear that everyone educated themselves on this topic (by visiting the website, reading the provided materials, and attending the town halls) and all of us came to the same conclusion. This wasn't hysteria - it was legitimate concern about a (probably well meaning yet) lousy proposal. No amount of you trolling these forums to claim we're all crazy is going to change that.

That said, I think your above point is correct - they didn't get it past the public reviews and it lost any support it had from the GA/governor because it was hugely unpopular (because of the lousy components).

Keep in mind - when you're claiming it was "all about giving people extra choices" - nobody was really balking at that. I mean sure, there were some legitimate complaints about how you can't really teach data science without a good calc background, but let's ignore that for a minute. In general, people had some questions about logistics (how are you going to find the teachers to offer all of these) but nobody really hated the idea of 'here are some extra math options for kids who don't want calclus'

What people hated was the heterogeneous classrooms - the 'tracking is bad', 'teachers can just differentiate' - and the elimination of a standard path to calculus (sure, schools could have offered calc, but logistically there wasn't time to teach the alg2/trig/precalc content without summer classes under the 8-10 esentials concepts system)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
why public push-back was so strong from all parts of the political spectrum.

According to the booster, this is all speculation and the public pushback was unwarranted, recommendation is not requirement, and public pushback would have prevented the recommendations from happening.

Oh and the booster supports the recommendations that were being made, including eliminating tracking through middle school.

The extreme hysteria and misinformation were unwarranted.

I support advanced/accelerated math options in MS. ??

Just because the thread was deleted doesn't mean it's gone. I remember what you posted, and probably have it saved in my notes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Wait - “citizenship” is a necessary math skill ??

It is if you're Jo Boaler or VMPI. Focusing on citizenship means less time is spent on math, so students have an easier time passing math class.

It means don’t be a dick and make up lies for political purposes.

Sure, Tina. Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

They wanted to ADD options that are more relevant for non-STEM majors. They weren’t eliminating calculus.

I am pretty sure that most schools had the classes that were being added.

What they were doing was blending courses, so there wouldn't be Algebra and Geometry but whatever they were calling the class. I guess Essential Math 1 and 2.

Nothing in their graphic explained that Essential Math 1 and 2 where this blended Algebra Geometry concept, which was confusing. I remember watching a video where the students spent a good amount of time complaining about how hard Tri, Precalculus and Calculus were. Then they had FCPS Alumni who were in college talking about how they never used those classes and how those classes had been a waste of time. All to introduce these "new" math classes that were more practical. All of which ignored that there were already stats classes and classes that were meant to be more practical math usage.

They were also removing the Advanced Math option in ES and the ability to take the grade 9 and 10 math, traditionally Algebra and Geometry, in 7th and 8th grade.

Essentially, they did a crap job of explaining that Algebra and Geometry were still being taught, just in a different manner. The videos I saw sure made it sound like the approach was being taken because 1) math was hard 2) higher level math was useless. Finally, they were clearly eliminating the Advanced Math path in ES which meant that kids who were already bored in Advanced Math would be even more bored in the new program.

I remember looking over the material that they had on the website, watching the videos they posted, and being shocked enough at how it was being presented that I wrote to all the candidates and said that I would not vote for anyone supporting this change. They did a lousey job with their marketing.

Thanks, PP, for this summary, and it’s generally what I recall as well.

When the VMPI advocates were claiming nothing was being taken away, lots of things were being added, and it was only about access, it all sounded impossible.

And it was. Hidden in the details were clear plans to eliminate calculus for nearly all students, with a vague promise the might be a “potential pathway,” but no promises and not for most students.

I also recall VMPI would have delayed Algebra for nearly all student subjects until 9th grade, but when challenged, the VMPI advocates again made vague promises about “potential pathways could exist” or how “an individual school could be potentially be allowed the possibility of maintaining different classes.”

VMPI was presented in the most misleading and deceitful way possible at the time. Hope it never comes back, as it was clearly a deeply flawed plan.

All false. Stop spreading misinformation.

Nope. Earlier PP is right. They wanted to basically not have any advancement in math until 11th. If you listened to their webinars this was clear - all kids doing the same math classes for K-10 was a major part of VMPI.

So major that they forgot to include it in the infographic? No. It was a topic for discussion but wasn’t a major component like integrated math and expanding math options.

They always included AP and IB, which requires 8th grade algebra 1.

Anyway, let’s say there was some great conspiracy to sneak it in. It’s not like they could have gotten it past public reviews and GA/governor approval if it were unpopular.

So much faux hysteria.

Did you listen to the webinars they did on it and email them follow up questions? I did. Making all the kids do the same math classes until 10 was a core part of what they were talking about doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

They wanted to ADD options that are more relevant for non-STEM majors. They weren’t eliminating calculus.

I am pretty sure that most schools had the classes that were being added.

What they were doing was blending courses, so there wouldn't be Algebra and Geometry but whatever they were calling the class. I guess Essential Math 1 and 2.

Nothing in their graphic explained that Essential Math 1 and 2 where this blended Algebra Geometry concept, which was confusing. I remember watching a video where the students spent a good amount of time complaining about how hard Tri, Precalculus and Calculus were. Then they had FCPS Alumni who were in college talking about how they never used those classes and how those classes had been a waste of time. All to introduce these "new" math classes that were more practical. All of which ignored that there were already stats classes and classes that were meant to be more practical math usage.

They were also removing the Advanced Math option in ES and the ability to take the grade 9 and 10 math, traditionally Algebra and Geometry, in 7th and 8th grade.

Essentially, they did a crap job of explaining that Algebra and Geometry were still being taught, just in a different manner. The videos I saw sure made it sound like the approach was being taken because 1) math was hard 2) higher level math was useless. Finally, they were clearly eliminating the Advanced Math path in ES which meant that kids who were already bored in Advanced Math would be even more bored in the new program.

I remember looking over the material that they had on the website, watching the videos they posted, and being shocked enough at how it was being presented that I wrote to all the candidates and said that I would not vote for anyone supporting this change. They did a lousey job with their marketing.

Thanks, PP, for this summary, and it’s generally what I recall as well.

When the VMPI advocates were claiming nothing was being taken away, lots of things were being added, and it was only about access, it all sounded impossible.

And it was. Hidden in the details were clear plans to eliminate calculus for nearly all students, with a vague promise the might be a “potential pathway,” but no promises and not for most students.

I also recall VMPI would have delayed Algebra for nearly all student subjects until 9th grade, but when challenged, the VMPI advocates again made vague promises about “potential pathways could exist” or how “an individual school could be potentially be allowed the possibility of maintaining different classes.”

VMPI was presented in the most misleading and deceitful way possible at the time. Hope it never comes back, as it was clearly a deeply flawed plan.

All false. Stop spreading misinformation.

Nope. Earlier PP is right. They wanted to basically not have any advancement in math until 11th. If you listened to their webinars this was clear - all kids doing the same math classes for K-10 was a major part of VMPI.

So major that they forgot to include it in the infographic? No. It was a topic for discussion but wasn’t a major component like integrated math and expanding math options.

They always included AP and IB, which requires 8th grade algebra 1.

Anyway, let’s say there was some great conspiracy to sneak it in. It’s not like they could have gotten it past public reviews and GA/governor approval if it were unpopular.

So much faux hysteria.

It's pretty clear that everyone educated themselves on this topic (by visiting the website, reading the provided materials, and attending the town halls) and all of us came to the same conclusion. This wasn't hysteria - it was legitimate concern about a (probably well meaning yet) lousy proposal. No amount of you trolling these forums to claim we're all crazy is going to change that.

That said, I think your above point is correct - they didn't get it past the public reviews and it lost any support it had from the GA/governor because it was hugely unpopular (because of the lousy components).

Keep in mind - when you're claiming it was "all about giving people extra choices" - nobody was really balking at that. I mean sure, there were some legitimate complaints about how you can't really teach data science without a good calc background, but let's ignore that for a minute. In general, people had some questions about logistics (how are you going to find the teachers to offer all of these) but nobody really hated the idea of 'here are some extra math options for kids who don't want calclus'

What people hated was the heterogeneous classrooms - the 'tracking is bad', 'teachers can just differentiate' - and the elimination of a standard path to calculus (sure, schools could have offered calc, but logistically there wasn't time to teach the alg2/trig/precalc content without summer classes under the 8-10 esentials concepts system)

+1
This. Exactly. All of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

Calculus is not required at community colleges. But any decent university college, first level calc is required. Law schools see that as taking on rigor instead of shying away from it. As the saying goes, a student was afraid of blood and scared of math, so they joined a law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

Calculus is not required at community colleges. But any decent university college, first level calc is required. Law schools see that as taking on rigor instead of shying away from it. As the saying goes, a student was afraid of blood and scared of math, so they joined a law school.

Harvard and Yale undergrad do not require calculus. They have excellent law school admissions from humanities majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

Calculus is not required at community colleges. But any decent university college, first level calc is required. Law schools see that as taking on rigor instead of shying away from it. As the saying goes, a student was afraid of blood and scared of math, so they joined a law school.

I taught at 3 Universities and none of them required every student take Calculus. Calculus is not a graduation requirement for all students at any University that I know of. There are specific majors that require Calculus but that is limited.

[Anonymous]

FCPS doesnt require anything more than Algebra 2 to graduate. There are many career pathways that dont need taking anymore math. But why restrict access to others who want to pursue advanced and accelerated math for equity reasons? Especially URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

They wanted to ADD options that are more relevant for non-STEM majors. They weren’t eliminating calculus.

I am pretty sure that most schools had the classes that were being added.

What they were doing was blending courses, so there wouldn't be Algebra and Geometry but whatever they were calling the class. I guess Essential Math 1 and 2.

Nothing in their graphic explained that Essential Math 1 and 2 where this blended Algebra Geometry concept, which was confusing. I remember watching a video where the students spent a good amount of time complaining about how hard Tri, Precalculus and Calculus were. Then they had FCPS Alumni who were in college talking about how they never used those classes and how those classes had been a waste of time. All to introduce these "new" math classes that were more practical. All of which ignored that there were already stats classes and classes that were meant to be more practical math usage.

They were also removing the Advanced Math option in ES and the ability to take the grade 9 and 10 math, traditionally Algebra and Geometry, in 7th and 8th grade.

Essentially, they did a crap job of explaining that Algebra and Geometry were still being taught, just in a different manner. The videos I saw sure made it sound like the approach was being taken because 1) math was hard 2) higher level math was useless. Finally, they were clearly eliminating the Advanced Math path in ES which meant that kids who were already bored in Advanced Math would be even more bored in the new program.

I remember looking over the material that they had on the website, watching the videos they posted, and being shocked enough at how it was being presented that I wrote to all the candidates and said that I would not vote for anyone supporting this change. They did a lousey job with their marketing.

Thanks, PP, for this summary, and it’s generally what I recall as well.

When the VMPI advocates were claiming nothing was being taken away, lots of things were being added, and it was only about access, it all sounded impossible.

And it was. Hidden in the details were clear plans to eliminate calculus for nearly all students, with a vague promise the might be a “potential pathway,” but no promises and not for most students.

I also recall VMPI would have delayed Algebra for nearly all student subjects until 9th grade, but when challenged, the VMPI advocates again made vague promises about “potential pathways could exist” or how “an individual school could be potentially be allowed the possibility of maintaining different classes.”

VMPI was presented in the most misleading and deceitful way possible at the time. Hope it never comes back, as it was clearly a deeply flawed plan.

All false. Stop spreading misinformation.

It’s not like they could have gotten it past public reviews and GA/governor approval if it were unpopular.

CA's policy did, despite not just being at least as unpopular but also expressly illegal. (https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/stop-forcing-students-to-repeat-algebra-1)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even after the VA secretary of education clearly stated that school districts could continue to define their own classes (incl adv/accel) to meet the needs of their students, as they always have been able to do, RWNJs continued to push the boogeyman narrative.

VDOE told you they weren’t doing it. And it’s not something they could just sneak in there with such an open, public process that requires GA/gov approval.

Totally irrational.

getting tired of RWNJs, and LWNJs like yourself constantly yapping about each other. Why dont you all get in a cage and settle it with a spar?

The post is about equitable access to advanced math. This is what VMPI and similar proposals around the country are aboiut. OP is going the other way and saying minorities need to be placed in even more advanced classes, while most equity proposals involve reducing access for everyone. One of the links on VMPI's website, ""Eliminate tracking systems that sort children based on perceived ability and demographic profile."
Therefore, the goal of detracking will not be realized without working to dismantle the various social, political, and cultural reasons tracking persists. Those that have been privileged by the current system must be willing to
give up that privilege for more equitable schooling."

See the chart at this link to see what VMPI was REALLY about, including:

“Not all college majors need calculus !” (direct quote).

Obviously, calculus can and should be de-emphasized or mostly eliminated, through VMPI.




Here is the source: WTOP:


https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-plans-to-improve-equity-and-learning-opportunities-through-high-school-mathematics/

Only 28% of college majors require calculus ?

You don't need to know Calculus to be a doctor or a lawyer!

but the premed and prelaw bachelor degree subjects require calculus.

The only Social Science that I can think of that would require calculus is Economics. I taught Political Science, heck I taught research methods for Political Science, and all anyone needed for a BA was basic Algebra. Some graduate schools that are more quant based require a knowledge of basic calculus but those programs are not all that common. Realistically, you can learn regression and maximum likelihood estimation and the like without knowing Calculus because you are using the computer to crunch the numbers. You do need to have a good understanding of Probability and Statistics.

I cannot think of a Pre-Law program that would require Calculus or why a Pre-Law program would require Calculus.

Calculus is known for being a gatekeeper course in colleges for Engineering majors and for Science majors. It is not that easy and it is used to weed out students who are not willing to attend class, complete homework, and put in some effort. Most of the science majors have a second gatekeeping class, think Organic Chemistry, but Calculus is on that list for a reason. Not every school or program uses it that way but a good number do.

Way off. Calculus is a service course provided by math department to other majors. It's required because it's necessary material for those majors, not as a weed out.

The math department offers the class, yes, and plenty of other majors include it as a requirement to weed students out of specific majors. This is not exactly new information.

Calculus is not required at community colleges. But any decent university college, first level calc is required. Law schools see that as taking on rigor instead of shying away from it. As the saying goes, a student was afraid of blood and scared of math, so they joined a law school.

I taught at 3 Universities and none of them required every student take Calculus. Calculus is not a graduation requirement for all students at any University that I know of. There are specific majors that require Calculus but that is limited.

And on the flip side, there are plenty of (STEM) majors in which not having calculus puts students at a disadvantage.