Daughter married a doctor, he’s pressuring her to pay off his student debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband paid off my credit card debt when we got married. I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I’ll never forget how nonjudgmental and straightforward he was—“this is our debt now and we agreed we don’t want debt, right?” End of story.

That debt had funded a move that got me in a job where I want just able to buy him a sports car.

This is all a silly way to say—if everyone is working in faith of the marriage, you know it all comes out in the wash. So what’s the real situation here?

Did you have $400k to 500k in cc debt?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did they not discuss before marriage how they planned to handle that debt?

Of course not. Daughter had $$$ in her eyes to marry a doctor. Clock was ticking to lock him down and start having kids. When you’re in that mode you don’t give concerns to trivial things like compatibility, debt, social issues, extended family involvement, alcohol, etc. It’s just a race down the aisle.

+1. I don’t agree with the daughter paying off her husband’s loans, but people are seriously stupid about financial and general life prospects of doctors. Unless they’re from a rich family, they have crazy debt, crappy work life balance, unless they take a lower paying job, and the higher paying specialties don’t pay enough to justify the other bad stuff like stress, being on call, limited vacation time, navigating bureaucracy, etc.

Not true at all. While the training years suck, we know several specialists in private practice making $500k+ working 40-45 hour weeks and only taking home call a weekend every other month.

500k after so many years of training and crazy debt is not great. It’s worth it if you have no debt though.

I'm not sure your opinion makes mathematical sense. I mean, let's say all things stagnant -- Thirty years of $500k salary plus $400k debt VS thirty years of $150k salary. Seems like a no brainer to take on the $400k debt.

Is this a joke? Doctors’ earning years are substantially lower because of the length of education and training. The ones who make 500k+ start earning 10 or more years later than someone who graduated college and started working.

Plus, money saved earlier compounds and grows over the years, so the person making 150k, if they didn’t squander all their earnings, already has a nice amount accumulated by the time the dr starts making money. And the medical school debt has accrued a ridiculous amount of interest during training too. Unless the doctor is a smart investor, which they often don’t have the time or interest to be, they end up worse off than people who make less.

Nonsense. I work in a hospital and no doctor is struggling financially. Their job security is also rock solid.

This is all basic finance, magic of compounding, early investing and all that. How do you know no doctor is struggling financially? Because you work in a hospital and have seen them driving their Tesla’s and Range Rovers? Lol

[Anonymous]

Forcing your wife to pay for your fancy degrees is the antithesis of manly. The guy is using her full stop. If this was some elderly widow we’d all tell OP to call the cops on the con artist trying to take advantage of her. But because it’s a naive and gullible young lady it’s okay?

[Anonymous]

DH and I are still paying off my grad school loan. We have combined bank accounts so it’s not like there’s any way to actually delineate who’s paying what on it. He also supported me while I stopped working for two years to do it. But he has benefited from my going back to school. I increased my income by over three times what I was making before. We get to live in a nicer house and go on nicer vacations and do nicer things for our kids because of it.

I could see where if a married couple keeps separate finances it would be tricky because doing that maintains the ‘his’ vs ‘hers’ mindset. This is bad for a marriage.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did they not discuss before marriage how they planned to handle that debt?

Of course not. Daughter had $$$ in her eyes to marry a doctor. Clock was ticking to lock him down and start having kids. When you’re in that mode you don’t give concerns to trivial things like compatibility, debt, social issues, extended family involvement, alcohol, etc. It’s just a race down the aisle.

+1. I don’t agree with the daughter paying off her husband’s loans, but people are seriously stupid about financial and general life prospects of doctors. Unless they’re from a rich family, they have crazy debt, crappy work life balance, unless they take a lower paying job, and the higher paying specialties don’t pay enough to justify the other bad stuff like stress, being on call, limited vacation time, navigating bureaucracy, etc.

Not true at all. While the training years suck, we know several specialists in private practice making $500k+ working 40-45 hour weeks and only taking home call a weekend every other month.

500k after so many years of training and crazy debt is not great. It’s worth it if you have no debt though.

I'm not sure your opinion makes mathematical sense. I mean, let's say all things stagnant -- Thirty years of $500k salary plus $400k debt VS thirty years of $150k salary. Seems like a no brainer to take on the $400k debt.

Is this a joke? Doctors’ earning years are substantially lower because of the length of education and training. The ones who make 500k+ start earning 10 or more years later than someone who graduated college and started working.

Plus, money saved earlier compounds and grows over the years, so the person making 150k, if they didn’t squander all their earnings, already has a nice amount accumulated by the time the dr starts making money. And the medical school debt has accrued a ridiculous amount of interest during training too. Unless the doctor is a smart investor, which they often don’t have the time or interest to be, they end up worse off than people who make less.

Nonsense. I work in a hospital and no doctor is struggling financially. Their job security is also rock solid.

This is all basic finance, magic of compounding, early investing and all that. How do you know no doctor is struggling financially? Because you work in a hospital and have seen them driving their Tesla’s and Range Rovers? Lol

And what math tell you that a $150k salary is better than $500k+ over the long run? Trump University degree? LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I married a dentist with over a hundred grand in student loan debt and 32 years ago. I had no debt. We worked 6 days a week to pay if off. We're a team.

I haven't read all the replies but we also both worked hard to pay off my husband's medical school debt in our early marriage.
My brother and his wife did the same.

Now all parties reap the benefit of that (a steady, high income).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did they not discuss before marriage how they planned to handle that debt?

Of course not. Daughter had $$$ in her eyes to marry a doctor. Clock was ticking to lock him down and start having kids. When you’re in that mode you don’t give concerns to trivial things like compatibility, debt, social issues, extended family involvement, alcohol, etc. It’s just a race down the aisle.

+1. I don’t agree with the daughter paying off her husband’s loans, but people are seriously stupid about financial and general life prospects of doctors. Unless they’re from a rich family, they have crazy debt, crappy work life balance, unless they take a lower paying job, and the higher paying specialties don’t pay enough to justify the other bad stuff like stress, being on call, limited vacation time, navigating bureaucracy, etc.

Not true at all. While the training years suck, we know several specialists in private practice making $500k+ working 40-45 hour weeks and only taking home call a weekend every other month.

500k after so many years of training and crazy debt is not great. It’s worth it if you have no debt though.

I'm not sure your opinion makes mathematical sense. I mean, let's say all things stagnant -- Thirty years of $500k salary plus $400k debt VS thirty years of $150k salary. Seems like a no brainer to take on the $400k debt.

Is this a joke? Doctors’ earning years are substantially lower because of the length of education and training. The ones who make 500k+ start earning 10 or more years later than someone who graduated college and started working.

Plus, money saved earlier compounds and grows over the years, so the person making 150k, if they didn’t squander all their earnings, already has a nice amount accumulated by the time the dr starts making money. And the medical school debt has accrued a ridiculous amount of interest during training too. Unless the doctor is a smart investor, which they often don’t have the time or interest to be, they end up worse off than people who make less.

Nonsense. I work in a hospital and no doctor is struggling financially. Their job security is also rock solid.

This is all basic finance, magic of compounding, early investing and all that. How do you know no doctor is struggling financially? Because you work in a hospital and have seen them driving their Tesla’s and Range Rovers? Lol

And what math tell you that a $150k salary is better than $500k+ over the long run? Trump University degree? LOL.

Aw are you a bitter dr with excessive debt and a high income that gets you nowhere financially? Don’t get too mad when your IT or lawyer neighbors accumulate a way higher net worth than you while your old a$$ is struggling to hold instruments in the OR or hobbling from room to room seeing patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forcing your wife to pay for your fancy degrees is the antithesis of manly. The guy is using her full stop. If this was some elderly widow we’d all tell OP to call the cops on the con artist trying to take advantage of her. But because it’s a naive and gullible young lady it’s okay?

It's because this forum is full of indebted strivers hoping to marry rich and/or marry a high earner who will bail them out.

[Anonymous]

Two Options:
1. Daughter and Son-in-law keep totally separate finances and do so throughout their marriage. He pays his debt and half of bills. She pays her half of bills.
2. Daughter and son-in-law have joint finances and both contribute to bills, debt, savings, etc.

I don't understand why this is so difficult. Regardless of whether she came to you, you need to stay out of it and every other of their marital decisions.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like there may be some larger issues in this marriage. I was the one in a graduate professional program during a marriage. Spouse (employed with a good job) made it clear that they would not provide any financial assistance (although I'm fully sure they expected to benefit from my later salary). Well, we are no longer married and said former spouse is not benefiting from my income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like there may be some larger issues in this marriage. I was the one in a graduate professional program during a marriage. Spouse (employed with a good job) made it clear that they would not provide any financial assistance (although I'm fully sure they expected to benefit from my later salary). Well, we are no longer married and said former spouse is not benefiting from my income.

Maybe he doesn’t care bc he has a good job and didn’t have to support a taker. In today’s world, with skyrocketing tuition and declining incomes, it’s irresponsible for people to take on massive debt and just rely on their spouse to help pay it off. If your parents didn’t pay, what business do you have saddling an unsuspecting spouse with debt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like there may be some larger issues in this marriage. I was the one in a graduate professional program during a marriage. Spouse (employed with a good job) made it clear that they would not provide any financial assistance (although I'm fully sure they expected to benefit from my later salary). Well, we are no longer married and said former spouse is not benefiting from my income.

Maybe he doesn’t care bc he has a good job and didn’t have to support a taker. In today’s world, with skyrocketing tuition and declining incomes, it’s irresponsible for people to take on massive debt and just rely on their spouse to help pay it off. If your parents didn’t pay, what business do you have saddling an unsuspecting spouse with debt?

+100000

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

Um, you're acting like there's no future benefit to attending prestigious schools. Why do you think people shell out small fortunes to attend these places, lol??

I'll be the first to admit there's not an r^2 = 1 correlation (to put it in nerdy, statistical terms) between prestigious schools and future wealth/career success. A lot of the benefit of these schools is in the networking and related factors, not necessarily the actual education. So an introvert like me, who hates the social aspect of the work world, benefited less from my Ivy degree than others.

But you're crazy if you're treating debt from prestigious schools like an overpriced vacation he put on a credit card.

+1

And for medical school, you attend where you get accepted. You don't get to pick and choose. State schools are really difficult to get into for Med school/PT/OT/Law because they are more affordable and everyone obviously wants to save $$ on med school

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

So does the reverse work? Now they are married, once he pays off "his debt" is his income all his to spend as he sees fit? He pays half the living expenses and she pays the other half? Even if he makes $300K and she makes $75K? Why should he contribute more than half, if there's a chance she will leave him for someone else in 5 years?

Me personally, I choose carefully for getting married, and that includes real discussions about finances and everything else in life. If you are not on a similar page for most things, then don't get married. But I cannot imagine being married to someone who views finances as "theirs" and"mine" We are a team, and as such we do what financially benefits the entire family most. I don't go thru life planning as if my marriage is a sham and will be over in 4-5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband paid off my credit card debt when we got married. I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I’ll never forget how nonjudgmental and straightforward he was—“this is our debt now and we agreed we don’t want debt, right?” End of story.

That debt had funded a move that got me in a job where I want just able to buy him a sports car.

This is all a silly way to say—if everyone is working in faith of the marriage, you know it all comes out in the wash. So what’s the real situation here?

Apparently many do not "work in the faith of the marriage". They are constantly thinking 50% of marriages end badly and I need to protect myself. Whereas if they put more effort into selecting a good partner (ie discussions about the difficult topics) and then working together as a team, they might not have to worry about it.
I mean seriously, would you want to be in a relationship where one person makes 3x what the other makes and decides they get to drive a $80K sports car because they make more money while the other partner can only afford a $20K Kia because that is all they contribute?
Me, I'd prefer we be in a relationship where we both drive $30K cars and then make a joint decision to save for a nicer car if one really values that. But No I will never understand, "I make more money so I get to spend more money on myself" That doesn't seem like a healthy relationship.

We paid off $80K of my partners student loans (I had $10K) when we got married. We then saved for home downpayment. It was joint. We always discuss major financial purchases---it's just now that number is up to ~$1K of "play money/you make the choice". I was making over $100K at age 28, partner was making $200K+. They were on the path to C suite. We decided to have kids and it was my choice to be the primary caregiver---I could work full time/part time and we'd pay for daycare or a nanny (my choice) or I could stay at home. We made the choice that I was the primary caregiver and as such that meant I contributed to the household In many ways more than a paycheck. I was never given an "allowance". In fact Im the one who manages our finances and we joke my partner has no clue where the money is (While it's actually true, it's their choice and they know the basics and I offer to give more information whenever they want it). I managed all of the finances, investing, etc. You do whatever works for you, but it seems unhealthy not to manage finances as a largely joint effort. Someone making $50K/year should not be afforded less while their spouse spends on themself just because they "earn more".