Daughter married a doctor, he’s pressuring her to pay off his student debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

[Anonymous]

The daughter is being played.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard No. she could pay if off and he could divorce her next day.

This is not like i married wife and she had car loan and I paid it off. Or my old GF who had 5k in credit card debt if I married her.

This is draining life savings, to pay off loan a guy who could dump her next day and leave her divorced and penniless

This is an odd take. His debt has value, it’s given him a skill worth more than the debt. I would be much more upset with 5K in credit card debt that shows my spouse cannot manage money than 200K in debt that raised my spouse’s earning potential.

His debt has value only to him. If they divorce, she can sell a house or any other asset backed debt, she has no claims over his earning power.

No, the debt led to their joint income today which they both enjoy.

The debt is a pre-marital asset. Or liability, to be specific. He brought it into the marriage. If they divorce, he'll take it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they not discuss before marriage how they planned to handle that debt?

Of course not. Daughter had $$$ in her eyes to marry a doctor. Clock was ticking to lock him down and start having kids. When you’re in that mode you don’t give concerns to trivial things like compatibility, debt, social issues, extended family involvement, alcohol, etc. It’s just a race down the aisle.

+1. I don’t agree with the daughter paying off her husband’s loans, but people are seriously stupid about financial and general life prospects of doctors. Unless they’re from a rich family, they have crazy debt, crappy work life balance, unless they take a lower paying job, and the higher paying specialties don’t pay enough to justify the other bad stuff like stress, being on call, limited vacation time, navigating bureaucracy, etc.

Not true at all. While the training years suck, we know several specialists in private practice making $500k+ working 40-45 hour weeks and only taking home call a weekend every other month.

500k after so many years of training and crazy debt is not great. It’s worth it if you have no debt though.

I'm not sure your opinion makes mathematical sense. I mean, let's say all things stagnant -- Thirty years of $500k salary plus $400k debt VS thirty years of $150k salary. Seems like a no brainer to take on the $400k debt.

Is this a joke? Doctors’ earning years are substantially lower because of the length of education and training. The ones who make 500k+ start earning 10 or more years later than someone who graduated college and started working.

Plus, money saved earlier compounds and grows over the years, so the person making 150k, if they didn’t squander all their earnings, already has a nice amount accumulated by the time the dr starts making money. And the medical school debt has accrued a ridiculous amount of interest during training too. Unless the doctor is a smart investor, which they often don’t have the time or interest to be, they end up worse off than people who make less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hubby and I are both lawyers. I had loans from law school, he did not. He got family help for law school, I didn't.

Our finances are joint so yes we paid off my loans. There was a long period where I stayed home with the kids and had no income coming in, so technically "he" paid off a lot of my loans.

We are a unit so we never made this distinction.

This^^^

People who think in terms of "him" or "her" or "me" or "them" are not functioning as a unit.
If your spouse has loans, they affect your entire family finances until they are paid off. Sure should you divorce, they are still the spouses loans, but who goes into a marriage assuming "we are getting a divorce". If you are not 100% certain in you relationship, then that is a issue you should fix before marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard No. she could pay if off and he could divorce her next day.

This is not like i married wife and she had car loan and I paid it off. Or my old GF who had 5k in credit card debt if I married her.

This is draining life savings, to pay off loan a guy who could dump her next day and leave her divorced and penniless

This is an odd take. His debt has value, it’s given him a skill worth more than the debt. I would be much more upset with 5K in credit card debt that shows my spouse cannot manage money than 200K in debt that raised my spouse’s earning potential.

His debt has value only to him. If they divorce, she can sell a house or any other asset backed debt, she has no claims over his earning power.

No, the debt led to their joint income today which they both enjoy.

DP here: they are not "enjoying" the income if its mostly going to service his education debt.

The solution is a post-nup.

I never understand this suggestion. What would it say? And why would the person that it negatively affects agree to sign it?

Yup! If my spouse came to me post marriage and stated "you have loans and they are not mine so sign this doc so that they stay mine and only mine but I will continue to benefit from your nice paying job that is a result of these loans" I would be alarmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. When you marry a person, you marry their debts too. If she didn’t want to deal with his school debt, she shouldn’t have married him. They could’ve just cohabitated.

Where do you draw the line for debt not only pre-marriage but before you even met?

You marry a deadbeat dad, you should pay off all of his back child support?

What if your husband put your engagement ring on an Amex, you’d be happy about paying off your own engagement ring?

Go to ritzy private colleges, rack up a mortgage worth of debt, then coerce a new spouse—who made more responsible college decisions—to pay off the loans feels wrong. I’m sorry.

These are not apples to apples comparisons. Most likely the medical school debt will pay off in the future as higher earnings for the husband that will benefit them both. Back child support (or consumer debt for jewelry) isn't the same kind of debt.

Different poster, but my husband and I considered my engagement ring a major joint purchase similar to a car. The exact ring and when I received it was a surprise, but the budget was not. We agreed on the maximum amount and I contributed an amount proportional to my income to our joint account. I made 4x what he did at the time so I essentially bought my own ring. Some may say that’s not romantic, but it feels strange to me to enter into a lifelong commitment by one person making a unilateral financial decision.

And it is!! This way you set a budget, you got what you wanted (some girls have very specific dreams of what they want/like and there is no reason you shouldn't get something you really love, considering it is for life). Back when we got engaged, I still had 1 year of undergrad and 2 years of masters to do and my fiancé made 40K and had student loans to pay off. So we agreed to spend $2000 all in for my engagement, and both wedding bands. Seemed silly to spend much more given we had $80K in loans in total coming up. 15 years later, I got a $12K "replacement ring" and 5 years after that a diamond eternity ring to wear with the "engagement" ring. We could easily afford the $16-18K at that point, but sure as hell no way when we got engaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage should start with pre-nup of no premarital debt or asset sharing but whatever is made during marriage should be shared. Anyone who has an issue with that is better off single. Also know that if someone has bad debt and income ratio, they won't be contributing towards family finances of household responsibilities because their time and income would go towards paying debt.

Um, I would happily pay off my DH's deb again so I could be married to him and not see him struggle. Paying off a spouse's debt should be between the partners. Not mandated by DCUM.

This should be between the wife and husband. I didn’t read the whole thread. Is the daughter bothered by this or the mom?

I would be against taking an inheritance to pay off spouse’s student loans but if it is joint marital income, it is fine.

We have doctor friends who met in med school and got married. The husband graduated med school with no debt and the wife graduated with a lot of debt. She had an expensive ivy college and med school and hundreds of thousands of debt. They had a baby shortly after she finished residency and she stayed home for a few years. I can’t remember if she got pregnant during residency. I remember Dh telling me the husband saying he doesn’t know how she is going to pay off her loans. He clearly didn’t think it was his job to pay off his wife’s college and med school debt. He seemed fine supporting her and their child financially but not paying off her loans. She eventually went back to work and is a practicing physician.

Well, I do agree she should eventually go back to work. I'm all for SAHP, but if you spend $$$$$ on a medical or law degree, you should plan to at least use it part time. Otherwise why get the degree and go into massive debt to do so?

But it is weird he didn't feel he should help with the debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

[Anonymous]

My husband paid off my credit card debt when we got married. I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I’ll never forget how nonjudgmental and straightforward he was—“this is our debt now and we agreed we don’t want debt, right?” End of story.

That debt had funded a move that got me in a job where I want just able to buy him a sports car.

This is all a silly way to say—if everyone is working in faith of the marriage, you know it all comes out in the wash. So what’s the real situation here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they not discuss before marriage how they planned to handle that debt?

Of course not. Daughter had $$$ in her eyes to marry a doctor. Clock was ticking to lock him down and start having kids. When you’re in that mode you don’t give concerns to trivial things like compatibility, debt, social issues, extended family involvement, alcohol, etc. It’s just a race down the aisle.

+1. I don’t agree with the daughter paying off her husband’s loans, but people are seriously stupid about financial and general life prospects of doctors. Unless they’re from a rich family, they have crazy debt, crappy work life balance, unless they take a lower paying job, and the higher paying specialties don’t pay enough to justify the other bad stuff like stress, being on call, limited vacation time, navigating bureaucracy, etc.

Not true at all. While the training years suck, we know several specialists in private practice making $500k+ working 40-45 hour weeks and only taking home call a weekend every other month.

500k after so many years of training and crazy debt is not great. It’s worth it if you have no debt though.

I'm not sure your opinion makes mathematical sense. I mean, let's say all things stagnant -- Thirty years of $500k salary plus $400k debt VS thirty years of $150k salary. Seems like a no brainer to take on the $400k debt.

Is this a joke? Doctors’ earning years are substantially lower because of the length of education and training. The ones who make 500k+ start earning 10 or more years later than someone who graduated college and started working.

Plus, money saved earlier compounds and grows over the years, so the person making 150k, if they didn’t squander all their earnings, already has a nice amount accumulated by the time the dr starts making money. And the medical school debt has accrued a ridiculous amount of interest during training too. Unless the doctor is a smart investor, which they often don’t have the time or interest to be, they end up worse off than people who make less.

Nonsense. I work in a hospital and no doctor is struggling financially. Their job security is also rock solid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

Um, you're acting like there's no future benefit to attending prestigious schools. Why do you think people shell out small fortunes to attend these places, lol??

I'll be the first to admit there's not an r^2 = 1 correlation (to put it in nerdy, statistical terms) between prestigious schools and future wealth/career success. A lot of the benefit of these schools is in the networking and related factors, not necessarily the actual education. So an introvert like me, who hates the social aspect of the work world, benefited less from my Ivy degree than others.

But you're crazy if you're treating debt from prestigious schools like an overpriced vacation he put on a credit card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well considering that they are married and likely filing jointly, then her income counts towards his income and increases the amount of payment he owes if he is uses a payment plan for federal loans. I have no idea about private loans.

The SAVE plan mentioned here is 5-10% of discretionary income for married filing jointly, unless you file separately and then you can only count his income but may lose tax benefits.

They got married, his debt is hers because her income is hers. Especially when it comes to student loans.

Tax benefits are dwarfed by the dramatically higher monthly payment under SAVE. Married filing separately is the way to go if you're pursuing PSLF. The only way it makes sense to do married jointly is if your spouse is stay-at-home (aka, a tax shelter).

Yes but save is the only plan that allows you to not include your spouse's income every other plan requires you to include it regardless of your filing status. And PSLF would only apply if he's working in nonprofit or government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

Um, you're acting like there's no future benefit to attending prestigious schools. Why do you think people shell out small fortunes to attend these places, lol??

I'll be the first to admit there's not an r^2 = 1 correlation (to put it in nerdy, statistical terms) between prestigious schools and future wealth/career success. A lot of the benefit of these schools is in the networking and related factors, not necessarily the actual education. So an introvert like me, who hates the social aspect of the work world, benefited less from my Ivy degree than others.

But you're crazy if you're treating debt from prestigious schools like an overpriced vacation he put on a credit card.

lol? Are you 12? An American doctor will make money wherever they go to college. Private colleges are totally unnecessary and indulgent. Strong-arming a debt free wife to pay off your status-obsessed indulgences is super scummy.