Truthfully, can you both have careers and have 3+ kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, you will sacrifice in either your career or attention to the kids. If you consider a nanny, then it would be feasible.

I have 3, and downsized my career in order to have the time for my kids. As kids get to tweens, they do need your attention and time, not less. Connection matters.

This is us. I work part-time but in a white collar job and my work is very flexible. DH is in a management role but only works 40-50 hours a week with pretty set hours except for a known period of about 3 months that's the same every year where things will get iffy on his hours.

OP my BIL and SIL have 3 kids ages tween and up. BIL is a lawyer. SIL is a pediatrician. SIL stepped back to 20 hours a week when the kids were little and 12 hours a week when they got older. For them that's what it took to manage all the extracurriculars and stay sane.

[Anonymous]

MayBug wrote:First, congratulations on the birth of your second kid! My employer and his wife, who works as a therapist, have three children. They seem to manage their careers well. If you both enjoy a certain amount of flexibility in your jobs, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't. For a fourth kid, however, you probably would need to wait until the eldest could support you.

Do not expect your oldest child to help you raise your other children. That's abuse.

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree with all the posters suggesting a nanny.

If you don't want a nanny for non-financial reasons then I think there is probably more to your question. You definitely can have two careers, and any number of kids but what that looks like depends on your choices. You need to be honest with yourself about what you want. If you want to do everything a SAHP would do and have two demanding careers, something is going to snap in there at some point. It can't be done unless you also plan to stop sleeping (and if you do that, your health will be the thing that snaps). So, consider whether you are framing the question so the answer has to be "no" because what you really want is to pull back partially or entirely. Those are fine choices and you don't have to pretend you are forced into them by foregoing all household help.

If you really do want two careers, then outsource. I would at the very least get some sort of nanny. I would also get help for any household job that doesn't give you pleasure. That leaves you room to be there for your kids, rather than being some stressed-out mess trying to prove something.

[Anonymous]

Obviously some people do it. Whether you and your husband are that kind of people we can’t answer. Some of it also comes down to circumstances you can’t control—SN kids, health issues, inflexible jobs, etc.

I know some two physician couples with three kids. Their lives seem insane to me but they seem happy.

[Anonymous]

An issue no one has mentioned is making it work for you, versus making it work for your kids. 3 kids plus two demanding jobs means less parental time and attention per kid. This is one reason people get nannies or have grandparents heavily involved. Unlike daycare workers or teachers, these are caretakers who can become parental stand ins and develop longer term, emotionally supportive relationships with kids.

Take some time to think about what the experience of each of your kids would be with a third child. Not just "how will they handle a sibling?" but also "how will this impact my relationship with each of them?" And "what will I not have time for and who will we bring in to have time for it?" Your kids each have real needs beyond simply being housed and fed and kept from danger. These needs increase as they get older-- they will need to develop a sense of self, skills for regulating emotions, social skills, academic abilities, etc. Some kids seem to develop this stuff by osmosis. Some don't. Assume at least one or two of your kids will need more support than average for this. Where will that support come from?

It's easy, especially when kids are small, to think this is just about the logistics of childcare. It's not-- that phase is actually short lived. It's the emotional availability piece that is hardest. Two adults with a lot in their plate professionally are unlikely to be able to meet the needs of three kids on their own, unless they get very lucky in terms of disposition with those kids. Assume you won't get lucky in that way.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I both have demanding careers and work 60+ hours a week, and we have three kids in elementary school.

We do have a full-time nanny and it is still VERY hard. It's harder now than it was when kids were smaller. The activities are a killer. Our nanny helps with some shuttling around a couple of a days a week, but unless we have her work until 9 PM every day we end up doing a ton of back and forth. The scheduling, figuring out who is driving where, etc., is very challenging. We could schedule less but don't want to limit their activities.

I do feel like we are failing on the school front. Our kids are in good schools and doing fine, but they do not study on their own or do any work beyond the bare minimum. Our summer plan is to convince our oldest (5th grade) that he has to take more ownership or he will not be successful in middle/high-school. But with demanding schedules (home at 6 PM, shuttling kids around, everyone home by 8-9 PM, bed, wife and I back at our desks for work until 11 PM), there is very little time to micromanage homework. So to me, this is a current failure that if we don't address will be a big problem. Seems that it would be easier with 1-2 kids than 3, just because of the volume, and we can't outsource homework management to our nanny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously some people do it. Whether you and your husband are that kind of people we can’t answer. Some of it also comes down to circumstances you can’t control—SN kids, health issues, inflexible jobs, etc.

I know some two physician couples with three kids. Their lives seem insane to me but they seem happy.

…adding that of course they have a nanny or with older kids a “house manager” etc. their lives are kind of insane WITH those things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I both have demanding careers and work 60+ hours a week, and we have three kids in elementary school.

We do have a full-time nanny and it is still VERY hard. It's harder now than it was when kids were smaller. The activities are a killer. Our nanny helps with some shuttling around a couple of a days a week, but unless we have her work until 9 PM every day we end up doing a ton of back and forth. The scheduling, figuring out who is driving where, etc., is very challenging. We could schedule less but don't want to limit their activities.

I do feel like we are failing on the school front. Our kids are in good schools and doing fine, but they do not study on their own or do any work beyond the bare minimum. Our summer plan is to convince our oldest (5th grade) that he has to take more ownership or he will not be successful in middle/high-school. But with demanding schedules (home at 6 PM, shuttling kids around, everyone home by 8-9 PM, bed, wife and I back at our desks for work until 11 PM), there is very little time to micromanage homework. So to me, this is a current failure that if we don't address will be a big problem. Seems that it would be easier with 1-2 kids than 3, just because of the volume, and we can't outsource homework management to our nanny.

The couples I know in your shoes typically make good friends on the team and rely on carpools. Are you able to do that? Yes they have to give back on the carpool front, but it still helps.

[Anonymous]

At this stage, you might want to consider what big changes you could make to make having three kids and two careers work for you.

For example, you might consider moving somewhere with a lower COL, making it possible to hire more babysitters, etc.

Do both of your jobs have to be done in the DC area? One thing that really helped our family in terms of making it work was to move away from DC. I now work 8 miles from my children's school, and I can reach their school in less than ten minutes with minimal traffic and no highways.

In the DC area, we could never find a high school student to babysit because high school students in DC are crazy competitive about extracurriculars, etc. Strangely enough, we never had this problem at our new location.
In addition, everything in Fairfax county was always oversubscribed so it was, for example, impossible to find three slots of swim lessons at the same pool at a similar time. Instead, I ended up driving each of the kids to a different pool at a different time. Moving out of DC made it possible to more easily find summer camp slots, swimming lesson slots, etc.

In addition, all of the kids made the swim team at school etc. because there were fewer kids getting outside lessons, etc.

I would strongly urge moving somewhere less competitive, particularly if you happen to have family nearby.

We cut down on the commute, the costs and the general insanity and craziness. This gave us so much more flexibility -- no more signing a kid up for a camp in January that by the time it rolls around in June they have decided that they hate basketball, etc. Instead, you sign the kids up a month in advance. We still did things like SAT tutoring and still had a math tutor come to the house, etc. but somehow it all felt a bit more manageable.

[Anonymous]

I have 3 under 11 and I'm telling you, just because you *can* raise 3 on your own without nannies/cleaners/whatever, doesn't mean you should. We have a weekly house-cleaner, daycare, tons of family close by, very flexible jobs and IT IS HARD. Daycare/school is great but with 3 kids, the sick days ADD UP AND SEEM TO NEVER END. It's not just the winter season colds anymore, it's something at least monthly. I think having a nanny/au-pair who could provide care on sick days, as well as helping to cart the kids to activities each week would have been very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess it depends on what you think a successful career is. My DH is a big law partner. He works somewhere between 60-80 hours a week plus travels to see clients. I work a normal 9-5 job with a lot of flexibility from home. We have 3 kids (5 years apart from start to finish). It’s a lot. I do a lot. We don’t have a nanny or any family near by. We have great friends and a network of people we can count on if need be.

When everything aligns and there is daycare and school things go ok. If something goes awry then it’s like a house of cards and everything comes tumbling down.

It also depends on what you think a successful parent-child relationship looks like.

Honestly, it's not so hard with three young kids, especially if they're in the same daycare. It's when they're older, playing multiple sports, and out of school in the summer that life becomes hard. Add in random teacher work-day/half-days, etc. You really have to spend time building relationships with parents of other kids, and learn the very delicate balance of leaning on stay-at-home parents in emergency situations/carpools.

+1 to this. We have 4 and I found working full time was much easier when they were little and we had a nanny. She also helped with laundry, dinners etc. I’ve gone part time now that my kids are older because of all the half days, summers, sports and school activities. Plus piles and piles of laundry!! I agree with with previous posters have said it really depends on what you consider a successful career/or parenting. For me I really enjoy being a mom and want to be very involved. My career is a dead end in my current position but it has so much flexibility that it’s worth it.

[Anonymous]

I am hospital-based physician and DH is an SES fed. We both work 50-60 hours/week, roughly 50/50 WAH/WOH & relatively flexible. 3 kids -- all middle elementary school aged -- and we have an au pair. It's a lot, but totally doable. I found the preschool/toddler/baby years harder than now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am hospital-based physician and DH is an SES fed. We both work 50-60 hours/week, roughly 50/50 WAH/WOH & relatively flexible. 3 kids -- all middle elementary school aged -- and we have an au pair. It's a lot, but totally doable. I found the preschool/toddler/baby years harder than now.

Those are pretty much our jobs. What does the au pair help with? Drop off and activities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MayBug wrote:First, congratulations on the birth of your second kid! My employer and his wife, who works as a therapist, have three children. They seem to manage their careers well. If you both enjoy a certain amount of flexibility in your jobs, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't. For a fourth kid, however, you probably would need to wait until the eldest could support you.

Do not expect your oldest child to help you raise your other children. That's abuse.

Please stop watering down the meaning of the word “abuse”. It’s beyond ridiculous at this point.

[Anonymous]

We have 3 kids and 2 full time jobs, but we both work remote full time and have a lot of control over our schedule so that we don’t even need before or aftercare. But we had a 5 year gap between #s 2 and 3. We had a nanny when #3 was a baby and then transitioned to a full time preschool as a toddler.

I work 7:00-3:30 most days so we have a parent around for the bus stop in the afternoon and preschool pickup + shuttling to afternoon activities, which helps. My DH gets the kids to school in the morning and then works 8:30-5:00. Occasionally we catch up at night (like days DH takes off early to coach our kids’ sports teams).

I don’t think both parents could have really big demanding careers though unless there is a lot of money to outsource. Either one or both will ideally have a lot of flexibility. We are ok that neither of us will likely break 200k (we make 150k and 175k now). If we took on more demanding roles we’d need a lot more money to cover outsourcing things, which just doesn’t seem worth it to us.