Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

The loss of life is tragic but I don’t spend much mental energy on it and don’t have much of an opinion. I’m kind of mystified the way my peers have taken up this cause. People in the Middle East have been blowing each other up my entire life. This feels like nothing new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll ask again: why aren’t middle eastern countries taking in Palestinians? Funny how no one will answer this.

What's funny is that it has been answered thousands of times.

No country is willing to be complicit in the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from Israel.

lol. Is that why countries closed their doors to Jews during the Holocaust? It was some kind righteous response to genocide? I don’t think what’s happening in Gaza is genocide, but your point is moronic.

No, that was mostly anti-semitism. It was the 1940's after all. They also didn't want to believe that Germany was going to commit genocide.

Also, unlike WW2, this game has been playing out for almost a century now and is quite a bit more complex in its competing claims and desires. Everyone is quite aware of the game being played by both sides and wants no part in it.

Israel isn't committing genocide. It has suggested ethnic cleansing a la the Serbian faction in Bosnia during the 90's. A style of crime against humanity that Richard Goldstone, a Jewish South African and one of humanity's greatest champions, worked tirelessly to try and ensure would never happen again.

If you're looking for a historical analogue then Bosnia is the one to look at. It has it all, from rape as a weapon of war (Hamas) to the multitude of factions to destructions of historical structures to ethnic cleansing.

That's what the world is against. All aspects of it. There are always secondary reasons but the primary one is still an unwillingness to be complicit in ethnic cleansing. So far Israel has only suggested it as a good idea and their solution to the problem. That's why the pushback is so hard, because it hasn't happened yet. But make no mistake, it has been suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

This thread attracts IR, PolSci and history nerds. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been the preeminent international relations issue of the past 80 years. It is complex, has a multitude of twists and turns, and none of the parties are innocent. Everyone who studied IR knows something about this. It pops up every decade and never goes away.

Most Americans don't even care about our own government let alone another country's. We should care about this because it matters and impacts a ton of things that effect us. But as a whole we don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

I left this thread some time into Part 1. Looked in on Part 2 a few times, posted there a couple times, left Part 2 alone for the most part. Won't be participating in Part 3.

However, it's not because I don't care. I have to deal with daily life AND process all of my feelings about the news. And my opinions have changed a lot over the course of just one month. Not sharing my opinion here because the point is not to fuel whatever anger is running through the 3 threads about Gaza. But people who avoid these threads are doing a lot of emotional processing about this war and spending time quietly in introspection. We don't see the point in debating things here because some people just have very fixed opinions and a lot of anger that they don't know how to process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

I’m not really passionate about the political struggles anywhere to be honest.

I am passionate about not facilitating a genocide. I’m really sick and disgusted that my taxes are being used to kill children in Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow so latest in Israel times said those naked men rounded up yday won’t be brought to Israel bc they are likely civilians. First idf said they were militants who surrendered, then they said, suspected Hamas militants, then it came to light some are doctors, journalists, artists, then the story evolved to just militants, then buried at the bottom of the latest article it states they will not be moved to Israel bc they are likely civilians who had been sheltering at a Un school. IDF and their propaganda. They are truly evil.

So what's the problem exactly? If they have been ascertained to be civilians and will be freed?

Yes, yes, of course ... let's normalize intentionally humiliating others, depriving them of their liberty, and then we can uncork some faux outrage when they have the audacity to bite back at us.

Ok you are going to say next they were humiliated so now they can't help but become terrorist (aka liberators).

No, but I am going to say that after 50+ years of Zionist terrorism, followed by 75 years (and counting) of state-sponsored terrorism by the State of Israel (and its laughably transparent aim of violently displacing the indigenous population in a drawn-out campaign of terror that is ethnic cleansing by any other name), there might be no hope for the future left in any of those men.

So if someone paraglides into Israel and attempts to harm anyone in sight, don’t reach for your pearls and expect others to defend your apartheid system and institutional racism.

You are not God and judge to tell us how to determine right and wrong. So no, I will not watch Israel suffer through a terrorist attack and then say they deserved it and the attackers did nothing wrong. I have to make this assessment on your orders? While you use the struggles of black people, the political struggles (not terrorism like you are advocating) as a prop in your argument, as if they are characters in your state play? No.

No is a full sentence.

No.

You’re certainly not alone.

The people who justify a genocide are critical to perpetrating those atrocities. In your own way you’re helping slaughter the civilians of Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

The loss of life is tragic but I don’t spend much mental energy on it and don’t have much of an opinion. I’m kind of mystified the way my peers have taken up this cause. People in the Middle East have been blowing each other up my entire life. This feels like nothing new.

I can tell you why your peers all of a sudden have taken up the cause. Because there's nothing else making the news cycle and all the other "causes" have burned out. Putting on a cowardly mask and chanting "Free Palestine" is just the latest version of Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, and Aid to Ukraine. It's all virtue-signaling from a group that before 10/7 couldn't even find Gaza on a map. For some, it's rooted in antisemitism (evil first-world Jews). For others, they're just bored. I'm sure they just replaced their fading "Black Lives Matter" sign with a "Free Palestine" one. Once this war leaves the news cycle, your peers will move on to some other cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

I’m not really passionate about the political struggles anywhere to be honest.

I am passionate about not facilitating a genocide. I’m really sick and disgusted that my taxes are being used to kill children in Gaza.

I'm really sick and disgusted that my taxes are being used to encourage massive illegal alien entry at the southern border.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously since this is the third thread after a couple of thousand posts, some people are passionate about the Gaza War. I just wonder if it is the same people posing over and over or this thread attracts the majority of people on this site.

I went to Israel 30 years ago with high hopes that as a nonbeliever there would be some type of spiritual epiphany or at least feeling since three major monotheistic religions have roots there. Instead I found some much tension and a feeling of heaviness from everyone from all three religions. (Loved going to Egypt and Jordan on the same trip due to all the amazing ruins).

Since then I just am not interested at all in what happens there. I really wonder what percent of Americans just really don't care much about the plight of anyone in Israel/Palestine and are more focused on other things? Am I an outlier and most Americans are passionate one way or the other?

I’m not really passionate about the political struggles anywhere to be honest.

I am passionate about not facilitating a genocide. I’m really sick and disgusted that my taxes are being used to kill children in Gaza.

I'm really sick and disgusted that my taxes are being used to encourage massive illegal alien entry at the southern border.

You must hate Ronald Reagan then because the border and illegal alien entry and amnesty became a huge thing under his administration . It’s actually corporations that are behind the push for more illegal immigration and less unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rape of the Israeli Women

So interesting - and disgusting that the progressive left has been completely silent regarding the many rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on October 7. Not just rapes, but mutilation. Apparently, it’s inconvenient for the progressive left to speak out about these atrocities against women committed by Hamas. Just repulsive.
***

I condemn all sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas.

Will you join me in condemning the killing of innocent Palestinian women by Israel?

I am not the PP. Would I condemn it if an IDF solider walked up to a Palestinian woman during this war and shot her without cause, yes.

Obviously not PP, but ...

Nearly everyone (and certainly anyone hoping to be taken seriously) unequivocally condemns Hamas for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023.

Can you be counted on to unequivocally condemn the State of Israel, the IDF, and the settler community for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023?

And can we further count on you to acknowledge that the ratio is massively skewed to Palestinian deaths and injuries?

No. To much of the above. A war was declared. Did you miss that part?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rape of the Israeli Women

So interesting - and disgusting that the progressive left has been completely silent regarding the many rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on October 7. Not just rapes, but mutilation. Apparently, it’s inconvenient for the progressive left to speak out about these atrocities against women committed by Hamas. Just repulsive.
***

I condemn all sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas.

Will you join me in condemning the killing of innocent Palestinian women by Israel?

I am not the PP. Would I condemn it if an IDF solider walked up to a Palestinian woman during this war and shot her without cause, yes.

Obviously not PP, but ...

Nearly everyone (and certainly anyone hoping to be taken seriously) unequivocally condemns Hamas for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023.

Can you be counted on to unequivocally condemn the State of Israel, the IDF, and the settler community for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023?

And can we further count on you to acknowledge that the ratio is massively skewed to Palestinian deaths and injuries?

No. To much of the above. A war was declared. Did you miss that part?

This reductionism is kind of bizarre tbh ^ You want the state of Israel condemned for their actions before, on and after 10/7? So basically, for existing? Hard pass.

[Anonymous]

The main problem still remains that there is no entity willing and capable to govern Gaza in a responsible manner so there can’t be a two-state solution if one state is certain to be a dysfunctional chaotic failed state. The U.S. wants to broker a two-state deal but we aren’t going to endorse a terrorist government or a corrupt government in Gaza and those are the only options so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rape of the Israeli Women

So interesting - and disgusting that the progressive left has been completely silent regarding the many rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on October 7. Not just rapes, but mutilation. Apparently, it’s inconvenient for the progressive left to speak out about these atrocities against women committed by Hamas. Just repulsive.
***

I condemn all sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas.

Will you join me in condemning the killing of innocent Palestinian women by Israel?

I am not the PP. Would I condemn it if an IDF solider walked up to a Palestinian woman during this war and shot her without cause, yes.

Obviously not PP, but ...

Nearly everyone (and certainly anyone hoping to be taken seriously) unequivocally condemns Hamas for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023.

Can you be counted on to unequivocally condemn the State of Israel, the IDF, and the settler community for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023?

And can we further count on you to acknowledge that the ratio is massively skewed to Palestinian deaths and injuries?

No. To much of the above. A war was declared. Did you miss that part?

This reductionism is kind of bizarre tbh ^ You want the state of Israel condemned for their actions before, on and after 10/7? So basically, for existing? Hard pass.

You forgot the part about killing and injuring of civilians. But par for the course, so all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rape of the Israeli Women

So interesting - and disgusting that the progressive left has been completely silent regarding the many rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on October 7. Not just rapes, but mutilation. Apparently, it’s inconvenient for the progressive left to speak out about these atrocities against women committed by Hamas. Just repulsive.
***

I condemn all sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas.

Will you join me in condemning the killing of innocent Palestinian women by Israel?

I am not the PP. Would I condemn it if an IDF solider walked up to a Palestinian woman during this war and shot her without cause, yes.

Obviously not PP, but ...

Nearly everyone (and certainly anyone hoping to be taken seriously) unequivocally condemns Hamas for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023.

Can you be counted on to unequivocally condemn the State of Israel, the IDF, and the settler community for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023?

And can we further count on you to acknowledge that the ratio is massively skewed to Palestinian deaths and injuries?

No. To much of the above. A war was declared. Did you miss that part?

This reductionism is kind of bizarre tbh ^ You want the state of Israel condemned for their actions before, on and after 10/7? So basically, for existing? Hard pass.

You forgot the part about killing and injuring of civilians. But par for the course, so all good.

Killing and injuring civilians in Gaza when provoked, in response to atrocities committed by Gazans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rape of the Israeli Women

So interesting - and disgusting that the progressive left has been completely silent regarding the many rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on October 7. Not just rapes, but mutilation. Apparently, it’s inconvenient for the progressive left to speak out about these atrocities against women committed by Hamas. Just repulsive.
***

I condemn all sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas.

Will you join me in condemning the killing of innocent Palestinian women by Israel?

I am not the PP. Would I condemn it if an IDF solider walked up to a Palestinian woman during this war and shot her without cause, yes.

Obviously not PP, but ...

Nearly everyone (and certainly anyone hoping to be taken seriously) unequivocally condemns Hamas for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023.

Can you be counted on to unequivocally condemn the State of Israel, the IDF, and the settler community for the innocent loss of life and injuries caused by their actions before, on, and after 10/7/2023?

And can we further count on you to acknowledge that the ratio is massively skewed to Palestinian deaths and injuries?

No. To much of the above. A war was declared. Did you miss that part?

This reductionism is kind of bizarre tbh ^ You want the state of Israel condemned for their actions before, on and after 10/7? So basically, for existing? Hard pass.

You forgot the part about killing and injuring of civilians. But par for the course, so all good.

Killing and injuring civilians in Gaza when provoked, in response to atrocities committed by Gazans.

Killing and injuring some civilians in Gaza while responding on a war footing to atrocities committed by Hamas, an asymmetrical terror organization AND elected government of Gaza

Hope I encompassed it somewhat