61% of single women in America are not looking to get into a new relationship compared to 38% of men

[Anonymous]

If we were going multiple times a week- no way. Our kids are 8-11 now so nanny drives, car pools, and us. It’s a nice mix and we like to know the program better, other parents, and our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Single men are far more likely than single women to be looking for a relationship or dates – 61% vs. 38%. This gender gap is especially apparent among older singles"

Interesting development. What do we think is causing this?

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/08/PSDT_08.20.20.dating-relationships.full_.report.pdf

It is pretty obvious. Men are expected to initiate everything while women are passive.

Please let 3-5 things your husband has “initiated” lately for the family, no prompting, reminding, or listing.

Then list 3-5 things your husband has “initiated” for himself the last 24 hours.

Family: He looks online and makes movie suggestions, want to eat out a lot, and asks what we’re doing all the time.

Himself: finds what sci fi movie he watches easy night, makes a couple pots of coffee for himself, orders weird tech stuff online, rinks a beer in the pool instead of showering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I'm the PP and I don't know if these are "fundamental" differences are not. Like I don't know if this is innate or socialized in or some combination. I just know that there are differences.

But the problem with your proposal is that you'll say "men aren't going to change, accept it or don't marry." But that's a limited way of thinking about it.

What I really wish is that we lived in a culture that really, truly appreciated (and valued $$$$) the work women do to make families work, in a way commensurate with the way it appreciates and values workforce-based work. This is really the fundamental problem. Women started working and fighting for equality in the workplace because we live in a culture where that is where ALL the power is. If you can't make money, you have no power in our society. So women who were just staying home and caring for kids and homes had no power except what their money-making husbands chose to share with them. And many of those men chose not to share any of it. So what can women do, right?

I'm good at my job but I'm a GREAT mom, and good at managing a house and family too. It's a genuine frustration to me that in order to have what feels like an equal marriage, I have to do both. Especially when my husband just isn't that good at parenting and running the household. And not only that, but I have encourage and facilitate him doing a lot of parenting and housework that he does poorly, so we can feel "equal." All because if we structured our family along our strengths, I'd lose all my economic power, and for self-preservation reasons, I can't do that.

It's a real problem. I don't think all families would wind up with "man works, woman stays home." I don't even think that's how my family would work (I like working, I think I'd work part-time in a less demanding job, and use the extra money to outsource some of the stuff at home I don't like). But if we really valued the work of parenting and keeping house, families could divide these jobs in a way that made sense for the people involved. Everyone should be valued for their labor.

All of this happens because we live in a culture that absolutely refuses to view parenting/childcare/pregnancy/childbirth/housekeeping/home management as real labor, especially if performed by a woman for her own family (it's still undervalued when outsourced but at least people do get paid for it at this point, a relatively recent development actually).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

You wouldn't see it, you would have to have the mom explain it to you. You think you can sit next to someone at sports and understand their life inside their house/marriage.

The fact that 50% of the dads staying in their car or sit and doodle on their iPhones during whatever practice or carpool or game they “have to” go to, tells you exactly what kind of parenting skills they have, or lack.

I think I do a lot more than my DH wrt parenting but I totally sit in my car or outside somewhere and read a book or look at my phone during practice/class. What am I supposed to be doing? Talking to the other parents? Intently watching my kid so I can give them feedback later? Why? I talked to people all day at work and when I get home my house will be nothing but talking and listening until kids go to bed. I want a freaking break. I don't begrudge that of anyone, man or woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I'm the PP and I don't know if these are "fundamental" differences are not. Like I don't know if this is innate or socialized in or some combination. I just know that there are differences.

But the problem with your proposal is that you'll say "men aren't going to change, accept it or don't marry." But that's a limited way of thinking about it.

What I really wish is that we lived in a culture that really, truly appreciated (and valued $$$$) the work women do to make families work, in a way commensurate with the way it appreciates and values workforce-based work. This is really the fundamental problem. Women started working and fighting for equality in the workplace because we live in a culture where that is where ALL the power is. If you can't make money, you have no power in our society. So women who were just staying home and caring for kids and homes had no power except what their money-making husbands chose to share with them. And many of those men chose not to share any of it. So what can women do, right?

I'm good at my job but I'm a GREAT mom, and good at managing a house and family too. It's a genuine frustration to me that in order to have what feels like an equal marriage, I have to do both. Especially when my husband just isn't that good at parenting and running the household. And not only that, but I have encourage and facilitate him doing a lot of parenting and housework that he does poorly, so we can feel "equal." All because if we structured our family along our strengths, I'd lose all my economic power, and for self-preservation reasons, I can't do that.

It's a real problem. I don't think all families would wind up with "man works, woman stays home." I don't even think that's how my family would work (I like working, I think I'd work part-time in a less demanding job, and use the extra money to outsource some of the stuff at home I don't like). But if we really valued the work of parenting and keeping house, families could divide these jobs in a way that made sense for the people involved. Everyone should be valued for their labor.

All of this happens because we live in a culture that absolutely refuses to view parenting/childcare/pregnancy/childbirth/housekeeping/home management as real labor, especially if performed by a woman for her own family (it's still undervalued when outsourced but at least people do get paid for it at this point, a relatively recent development actually).

DP. It's not that it's not viewed as real work. It's that no one wants to pay you for work done for your own family. Why would taxpayers compensate you for doing your family's domestic work? Who else other than your spouse should be responsible for providing you money, resources or a home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I'm the PP and I don't know if these are "fundamental" differences are not. Like I don't know if this is innate or socialized in or some combination. I just know that there are differences.

But the problem with your proposal is that you'll say "men aren't going to change, accept it or don't marry." But that's a limited way of thinking about it.

What I really wish is that we lived in a culture that really, truly appreciated (and valued $$$$) the work women do to make families work, in a way commensurate with the way it appreciates and values workforce-based work. This is really the fundamental problem. Women started working and fighting for equality in the workplace because we live in a culture where that is where ALL the power is. If you can't make money, you have no power in our society. So women who were just staying home and caring for kids and homes had no power except what their money-making husbands chose to share with them. And many of those men chose not to share any of it. So what can women do, right?

I'm good at my job but I'm a GREAT mom, and good at managing a house and family too. It's a genuine frustration to me that in order to have what feels like an equal marriage, I have to do both. Especially when my husband just isn't that good at parenting and running the household. And not only that, but I have encourage and facilitate him doing a lot of parenting and housework that he does poorly, so we can feel "equal." All because if we structured our family along our strengths, I'd lose all my economic power, and for self-preservation reasons, I can't do that.

It's a real problem. I don't think all families would wind up with "man works, woman stays home." I don't even think that's how my family would work (I like working, I think I'd work part-time in a less demanding job, and use the extra money to outsource some of the stuff at home I don't like). But if we really valued the work of parenting and keeping house, families could divide these jobs in a way that made sense for the people involved. Everyone should be valued for their labor.

All of this happens because we live in a culture that absolutely refuses to view parenting/childcare/pregnancy/childbirth/housekeeping/home management as real labor, especially if performed by a woman for her own family (it's still undervalued when outsourced but at least people do get paid for it at this point, a relatively recent development actually).

DP. It's not that it's not viewed as real work. It's that no one wants to pay you for work done for your own family. Why would taxpayers compensate you for doing your family's domestic work? Who else other than your spouse should be responsible for providing you money, resources or a home?

I know!

Make Grandma watch your kids!!

Then you can work, your husband can do whatever, and grandpa can continue to do whatever. Score!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I think women understand that just fine. That’s why they’re not in a rush to marry men, for whom paragraphs of excuses will be written, which is the point of the the thread…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I think women understand that just fine. That’s why they’re not in a rush to marry men, for whom paragraphs of excuses will be written, which is the point of the the thread…

Amen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.



Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I'm the PP and I don't know if these are "fundamental" differences are not. Like I don't know if this is innate or socialized in or some combination. I just know that there are differences.

But the problem with your proposal is that you'll say "men aren't going to change, accept it or don't marry." But that's a limited way of thinking about it.

What I really wish is that we lived in a culture that really, truly appreciated (and valued $$$$) the work women do to make families work, in a way commensurate with the way it appreciates and values workforce-based work. This is really the fundamental problem. Women started working and fighting for equality in the workplace because we live in a culture where that is where ALL the power is. If you can't make money, you have no power in our society. So women who were just staying home and caring for kids and homes had no power except what their money-making husbands chose to share with them. And many of those men chose not to share any of it. So what can women do, right?

I'm good at my job but I'm a GREAT mom, and good at managing a house and family too. It's a genuine frustration to me that in order to have what feels like an equal marriage, I have to do both. Especially when my husband just isn't that good at parenting and running the household. And not only that, but I have encourage and facilitate him doing a lot of parenting and housework that he does poorly, so we can feel "equal." All because if we structured our family along our strengths, I'd lose all my economic power, and for self-preservation reasons, I can't do that.

It's a real problem. I don't think all families would wind up with "man works, woman stays home." I don't even think that's how my family would work (I like working, I think I'd work part-time in a less demanding job, and use the extra money to outsource some of the stuff at home I don't like). But if we really valued the work of parenting and keeping house, families could divide these jobs in a way that made sense for the people involved. Everyone should be valued for their labor.

All of this happens because we live in a culture that absolutely refuses to view parenting/childcare/pregnancy/childbirth/housekeeping/home management as real labor, especially if performed by a woman for her own family (it's still undervalued when outsourced but at least people do get paid for it at this point, a relatively recent development actually).

I agree with you. I think the social security should be reformed for married couples, to ensure that 50% of earnings history is given to each person regardless of who is working.

[Anonymous]

wow, I'm lucky that I have a Gen X husband who really does pull his weight.

Grateful after reading this thread.

[Anonymous]

Men want sex. Plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look ladies, it’s all fun and games to be the “cool aunt” when you are 28 and traveling the world. Everyone looks up to you and they want to be you. Then you turn 43 and you’re still single with no kids and your career has sort of peaked, as well as your looks.

You can’t be a “cool aunt” at 43

Right, that’s the age when the cool aunts become the cool SMBC whose nieces and nephews free babysit and who is in a place in her career to have a full time
Nanny.

It's not really a step up to be a SMBC. Nobody is envious of that person, doing it all alone, with a fatherless child. A nanny is not a replacement for a second parent.

Nannie’s are often better.

Women can have and raise babies without men, you make it sound like it’s impossible.

Of course it's possible. Never heard of a single mom before? But it's not desirable, at all. And no, a nanny is not a parent replacement. You must have a nanny if you think that to make yourself feel better.

It’s is desirable when it’s planned that way.

Not a replacement but better at providing support and not being a burden.

Most men are less helpful than a nanny/sister/grandmother.

Sadly, men are mostly missing or worse pouting about not getting more attention.

Remove him from the picture and life is much easier.

Please. It may be planned but any parent can attest to not really knowing what they were getting into. Doing it all on your own with no other parent to share the joys with is hardly desirable. It can be lonely, selfish, and a slog.

Most married women find raising kids with a man lonely, selfish and a slog.

they have one extra ungrateful child to care for and it pulls their attention from raising actual children. Men are contantly competing with their children for attention and it's like pulling teeth to get them to be a partner.... and those are the ones that are not working 24x7 to avoid home.

I know very few men who fit that description. Do you live in this area?

I agree. I'm GenX and my DH, as well as the other dads in our circle, are great dads. Perfect? no. But the moms aren't either. But they are involved and hands on and have been since birth.

This is anecdotal, i understand. But I'm not seeing what is described in the PP.

I'm an old Millennial and my DH is young Gen X, and I bet if you knew us you'd describe my DH as "very involved and hands on" and a great dad. And he is, kind of. But there's a lot you don't see. I'd rather coparent with him than my dad, no question. But my dad set a very low bar.

I do think my DH does better than a lot of men. But is he pulling his weight as a parent as well or better than most moms I know? Not even close. He takes little initiative, has almost no capacity for planning, struggles a lot with the emotional side of parenting (being the calm, emotionally mature adult in the face of kids struggling to develop those skills), and often blatantly shirks parenting responsibilities (he's one of those dads who spends a mysteriously long time in the bathroom during key parenting hours in the evening, or will wander off and make a phone call right when the kids need something). I think he's gotten better in the last year or so because I sort of hit a wall last year with being the primary parent and he realized he needed to pick it up. I think he's also a bit better with older kids who are more emotionally mature (thanks to a lot of hard work from yours truly!) so he's less triggered by them.

But despite him being involved and hands on, and being a good dad when compared to other dads (especially from prior generations) the idea that we are doing the same amount is insane. He travels for work and I'm fine (as others have said, it almost feels like a vacation not to have to deal with him). Meanwhile I was offered a promotion last year that would have had me traveling for the first time since our oldest was born, and he *freaked out* when I told him about it. I wound up not taking it because it caused such a meltdown at home.

The standard for "great dad" is so, so different than the standard for "great mom" in 2024.

I honestly think that women need to understand their are fundamental differences between men and women. For this reason women perhaps should take a break on marriage I am for real. There is 99% chance that any guy a woman pick will end up as described above not because men are "lazy" or whatever adjective you want to use. There are fundamental differences in terms of behavior and thinking. It is not going to change.

I'm the PP and I don't know if these are "fundamental" differences are not. Like I don't know if this is innate or socialized in or some combination. I just know that there are differences.

But the problem with your proposal is that you'll say "men aren't going to change, accept it or don't marry." But that's a limited way of thinking about it.

What I really wish is that we lived in a culture that really, truly appreciated (and valued $$$$) the work women do to make families work, in a way commensurate with the way it appreciates and values workforce-based work. This is really the fundamental problem. Women started working and fighting for equality in the workplace because we live in a culture where that is where ALL the power is. If you can't make money, you have no power in our society. So women who were just staying home and caring for kids and homes had no power except what their money-making husbands chose to share with them. And many of those men chose not to share any of it. So what can women do, right?

I'm good at my job but I'm a GREAT mom, and good at managing a house and family too. It's a genuine frustration to me that in order to have what feels like an equal marriage, I have to do both. Especially when my husband just isn't that good at parenting and running the household. And not only that, but I have encourage and facilitate him doing a lot of parenting and housework that he does poorly, so we can feel "equal." All because if we structured our family along our strengths, I'd lose all my economic power, and for self-preservation reasons, I can't do that.

It's a real problem. I don't think all families would wind up with "man works, woman stays home." I don't even think that's how my family would work (I like working, I think I'd work part-time in a less demanding job, and use the extra money to outsource some of the stuff at home I don't like). But if we really valued the work of parenting and keeping house, families could divide these jobs in a way that made sense for the people involved. Everyone should be valued for their labor.

All of this happens because we live in a culture that absolutely refuses to view parenting/childcare/pregnancy/childbirth/housekeeping/home management as real labor, especially if performed by a woman for her own family (it's still undervalued when outsourced but at least people do get paid for it at this point, a relatively recent development actually).

DP. It's not that it's not viewed as real work. It's that no one wants to pay you for work done for your own family. Why would taxpayers compensate you for doing your family's domestic work? Who else other than your spouse should be responsible for providing you money, resources or a home?

I know!

Make Grandma watch your kids!!

Then you can work, your husband can do whatever, and grandpa can continue to do whatever. Score!

lol.

It never ends! The needy dependents!