Bethesda Row after the Purple Line Opens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as Bethesda doesn’t have Primark, H&M, Zara, a Nordstrom, a Rolex store, etc it should be safe from most retail crime and smash and grabs. Young criminals won’t smash n grab at Mon Ami Gami. Now if the Purple Line went all the way to Westfield Montgomery Mall, it’d be a whole different ballgame re crime.

The Purple Line is slow however, unlike Metro, and above ground with visibility from the street. So fleeing via the Purple Line from criminal acts won’t be as easy. Its lack of speed should be a major deterrent. The Red Line is just one block over and offers more cover for criminals.

They’ll just rob you or carjack you instead. That’s the major sources of crime right now in downtown Bethesda.

Cannot wait for it to turn into a variant of downtown Silver Spring with hoards of teens roaming around looking to cause trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

That $200 million per year is the minimum of what the state will pay. The Purple Line can unilaterally set the fare and people I talk to expect that they will propose a fare so high that public pressure will compel the state to provide an additional fare subsidy.

[Anonymous]

I was looking at the Google Map someone made of the Purple Line route. It looks like it will really benefit Univ of Md with three stops and the connection to Metro. I think the Purple Line will raise the profile of the school among prospective applicants (especially those from out of state who would marvel at the novelty of the thing). That’s what happened when the Portland Streetcar famously built the line through the plaza of Portland State University 25 years ago.

Funny how UMD initially fought the Purple Line and tried to block it, like Duke University did with their proposed light rail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the Google Map someone made of the Purple Line route. It looks like it will really benefit Univ of Md with three stops and the connection to Metro. I think the Purple Line will raise the profile of the school among prospective applicants (especially those from out of state who would marvel at the novelty of the thing). That’s what happened when the Portland Streetcar famously built the line through the plaza of Portland State University 25 years ago.

Funny how UMD initially fought the Purple Line and tried to block it, like Duke University did with their proposed light rail.

Biggest benefit will be to make it slightly more enticing to grad students who don’t want to be stuck in College Park.

[Anonymous]

Everyone in the conversation from the very first post forgot that the new Purple Line station will connect via safe underground passage to the new South Entrance of the Bethesda Red Line Metro station. Criminals will just flee to the Red Line via the new Purple Line station tunnel. I don’t think they’ll stand around for all the world to see while waiting for the next light rail tram to Chevy Chase Lake to arrive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in the conversation from the very first post forgot that the new Purple Line station will connect via safe underground passage to the new South Entrance of the Bethesda Red Line Metro station. Criminals will just flee to the Red Line via the new Purple Line station tunnel. I don’t think they’ll stand around for all the world to see while waiting for the next light rail tram to Chevy Chase Lake to arrive.

So they will come on the Purple Line and flee on the Red Line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in the conversation from the very first post forgot that the new Purple Line station will connect via safe underground passage to the new South Entrance of the Bethesda Red Line Metro station. Criminals will just flee to the Red Line via the new Purple Line station tunnel. I don’t think they’ll stand around for all the world to see while waiting for the next light rail tram to Chevy Chase Lake to arrive.

So they will come on the Purple Line and flee on the Red Line?

That is one option. There are likely many potential permutations of criminal getaway routes via transit, all with different degrees of success. But yes, arriving via the Purple Line is convenient. And leaving via the Purple Line leaves the criminals vulnerable while they wait out in the open for the next tram.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the Google Map someone made of the Purple Line route. It looks like it will really benefit Univ of Md with three stops and the connection to Metro. I think the Purple Line will raise the profile of the school among prospective applicants (especially those from out of state who would marvel at the novelty of the thing). That’s what happened when the Portland Streetcar famously built the line through the plaza of Portland State University 25 years ago.

Funny how UMD initially fought the Purple Line and tried to block it, like Duke University did with their proposed light rail.

UMD is definitely going to be boosted by the PL. The main immediate benefit will be a more regular connection from the metro station than the current shuttles. But also, UMD is expanding into the Discovery Disctrict, and there's two stops there. Students, faculty, and staff will have free rides in the 5 stops around UMD, so I expect those to be heavily used (that portion will also be the slowest part of the PL due to all the students crossing the tracks, hopefully they will be safe).

And I didn't even mention the increased ease to go to, or commute from, SS and Bethesday. I fully expect the PL will become a critical part of the regional infrastructure a few short years after opening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the Google Map someone made of the Purple Line route. It looks like it will really benefit Univ of Md with three stops and the connection to Metro. I think the Purple Line will raise the profile of the school among prospective applicants (especially those from out of state who would marvel at the novelty of the thing). That’s what happened when the Portland Streetcar famously built the line through the plaza of Portland State University 25 years ago.

Funny how UMD initially fought the Purple Line and tried to block it, like Duke University did with their proposed light rail.

UMD is definitely going to be boosted by the PL. The main immediate benefit will be a more regular connection from the metro station than the current shuttles. But also, UMD is expanding into the Discovery Disctrict, and there's two stops there. Students, faculty, and staff will have free rides in the 5 stops around UMD, so I expect those to be heavily used (that portion will also be the slowest part of the PL due to all the students crossing the tracks, hopefully they will be safe).

And I didn't even mention the increased ease to go to, or commute from, SS and Bethesday. I fully expect the PL will become a critical part of the regional infrastructure a few short years after opening.

Commuting from Bethesda will take one hour on the Purple Line, station to station. That will not be a favored option by anyone who cares about their time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

Roads don't break even either so no worries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

Roads don't break even either so no worries.

The cost to MD for these 17,000 daily trips is drastically more expensive than it would be using or bus or passenger vehicle transportation. MD spends $285 per person per year on roads. The total cost of this 17,000 daily vehicle traffic (using avg. VMT per person each day) is around $48,450,000 annually, the cost of the purple line metro extension per year is $194,700,00. This transportation method is at least 4 times as costly using the most generous assumptions. I did not even adjust for the fact that the average trip displaced by the the metro is shorter than 25 miles and that passenger vehicles often contain multiple people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

Which is beside the point. Right now we have a problem with congestion on roads. You need to increase public transit use along the route of the PL in order to relieve congestion. It gets 17K cars off the roads between New Carrollton and Bethesda. It also means that it decreases commuting costs for locals along or near the route. Southern MoCo currently has a problem with not enough affordable housing. You have a lot of people that you need for support level employment (retail clerks, supermarket employees, cleaning staff, nannies, etc) who cannot afford to live in the area. You either have to authorize more reserved affordable housing (which Bethesda and southern MoCo is also against) or provide lower income employees alternatives to live in more affordable areas and get to work. Right now, forcing them to try to commute along the Beltway or E/W Highway or other routes, is a huge issue as the congestions has made it unsustainable to keep their employment as commute times get longer and longer due to congestion.

It will also make UMD much more accessible to people from Montgomery County, who do not have reliable forms of transportation. Right now, people have to take the red line all the way downtown, transfer to green and come back out. And the red line in-bound is the most congested Metro line in the entire metro area. So you will also relieve some of the load on people who commute from MoCo to UMD. They take the red line down to Bethesda and instead of going all the way downtown to transfer to the green line, they can go to Bethesda and transfer to the Purple line.

There are lots of public interest benefits beyond just the dollar value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

Roads don't break even either so no worries.

The cost to MD for these 17,000 daily trips is drastically more expensive than it would be using or bus or passenger vehicle transportation. MD spends $285 per person per year on roads. The total cost of this 17,000 daily vehicle traffic (using avg. VMT per person each day) is around $48,450,000 annually, the cost of the purple line metro extension per year is $194,700,00. This transportation method is at least 4 times as costly using the most generous assumptions. I did not even adjust for the fact that the average trip displaced by the the metro is shorter than 25 miles and that passenger vehicles often contain multiple people.

Now add in the cost of externalities unique to driving such as climate change road deaths and emergency response crews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the U.S. Dept of Transportation the Purple Line will travel times by 40% and eliminate 17,000 auto trips daily. Those are the benefits. So even the auto-dependent should benefit from less road congestion.

Crime uptick would be minimal in my opinion, since it is relatively slow transit, not conducive to successful getaways.

Overall the pros outweigh the cons, otherwise why would a republican governor publically support it?

It will never break even. The annual cost of the purple line for MD (net of fares collected) will be around $194.7 million. This means that the average cost per car trip avoided is $31.2. That is a very poor use of funds and it will not save the taxpayers money in comparison to driving or expanded bus routes.

Which is beside the point. Right now we have a problem with congestion on roads. You need to increase public transit use along the route of the PL in order to relieve congestion. It gets 17K cars off the roads between New Carrollton and Bethesda. It also means that it decreases commuting costs for locals along or near the route. Southern MoCo currently has a problem with not enough affordable housing. You have a lot of people that you need for support level employment (retail clerks, supermarket employees, cleaning staff, nannies, etc) who cannot afford to live in the area. You either have to authorize more reserved affordable housing (which Bethesda and southern MoCo is also against) or provide lower income employees alternatives to live in more affordable areas and get to work. Right now, forcing them to try to commute along the Beltway or E/W Highway or other routes, is a huge issue as the congestions has made it unsustainable to keep their employment as commute times get longer and longer due to congestion.

It will also make UMD much more accessible to people from Montgomery County, who do not have reliable forms of transportation. Right now, people have to take the red line all the way downtown, transfer to green and come back out. And the red line in-bound is the most congested Metro line in the entire metro area. So you will also relieve some of the load on people who commute from MoCo to UMD. They take the red line down to Bethesda and instead of going all the way downtown to transfer to the green line, they can go to Bethesda and transfer to the Purple line.

There are lots of public interest benefits beyond just the dollar value.

At the end of the day, everything cost money and intangible/unmeasurable public benefits cannot be the basis for sound government decisions. Buses exist and this is a more effective way to increase public transit access and reduce congestion for substantially less money. This metro purple line metro extension was absolutely a bad financial decision for Maryland and MOCO. It's too late to fix this financial train wreck (since substantial investments have been made in the project already), but taxes are certainly going up to pay for this project. MD is also spending $161M for "wrap-around services" in high poverty schools, $110M for "wrap-around behavioral services" for students, etc. MD does not have the money to pay for all of these things and taxes will need to increase to cover rapid spending growth.