Teen DD rebelling against achievement culture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

I don't understand the ADHD comment at all. She seems smart and perfectly rational to me. She's right -- AI is going to make current career paths that our schools are preparing children for completely obsolete. So, why bother?

[Anonymous]

I was like your daughter. I figured it out eventually but I know it caused my mom a lot of stress. As if to repay me, my daughter was the same way. The difference is my daughter came around in 8th grade so earlier. What seemed to help was realizing she wasn’t going to be able to be in classes with her friends. Also, my stepping back and no longer checking portals. That was a great risk for me because I didn’t want her to fail. But ultimately I knew I wasn’t going off to college with her and what I was doing wasn’t helping. I made it clear that if she ever needed help she should ask. Kids need to find intrinsic motivation. Ask her what she wants life to look like down the road and use that. Downplay college and grade talk and just praise effort where you see it.

And my daughter did have ADHD that was missed. Getting that treated helped greatly.

[Anonymous]

High school is just something that you have to do if you want opportunities in life. College is the same way. Unless you have a lot of family money, a decent education is not optional if she wants to have a standard of living comparable to the one she has now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Short answer -

She needs the best GPA she can get, and the best test scores (congrats on the high score!) to get merit aid, which in the long run might prove more useful than a top-ranked name on a diploma.

Long answer -

Academics are not only about knowledge for a future career, general culture and cognitive development. Its immediate importance is about FAMILY MONEY.

I insist on the word family. Teens should care about their parents' expenditures, because it's that much less for their inheritance, or car purchases or downpayments on homes, or whatever else they might need in early adulthood to turbocharge their upward mobility.

This is a conversation, in fact, about building generational wealth. You as the parent have various investments, and you don't want a lackadaisical child to squander the family's financial opportunities. You want financial aid, merit aid, and to reduce your tuition load as much as humanely possible. Merit aid is a reduction in tuition. Financial aid is mostly loans. The former is less burdensome than the latter! And no one is giving out merit aid to mediocre students.

I say this as the parent of a kid with ADHD/ASD. The bar for kids with special needs is lower. He did manage to get into a decent college with merit aid, but I agreed to an expensive private university, not the State U that accepted him, because the Disability Office of the private offered him a lot more residential and academic accommodations. Will all those extra payments translate to higher income for him? Probably not. With him, we're on a different scale: that of not closing doors too early. If he can be financially independent when I'm gone, that's all I ask.

So by all means, get another evaluation. Call Stixrud. They're excellent. There is a waitlist, so in the meantime, get your kid an executive functioning coach and start explaining how the world works.

I posted previously that I have a kid like OP’s daughter, and with all due respect this response is exactly the type of explanation/lecture that would make him dig in his heels in his own position.

I would strongly advise against doing or saying any of this with a kid who seems to actually have the game figured out.

[Anonymous]

We don't need no Education. We don't need no thought control. This isn't a new take for teens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Short answer -

She needs the best GPA she can get, and the best test scores (congrats on the high score!) to get merit aid, which in the long run might prove more useful than a top-ranked name on a diploma.

Long answer -

Academics are not only about knowledge for a future career, general culture and cognitive development. Its immediate importance is about FAMILY MONEY.

I insist on the word family. Teens should care about their parents' expenditures, because it's that much less for their inheritance, or car purchases or downpayments on homes, or whatever else they might need in early adulthood to turbocharge their upward mobility.

This is a conversation, in fact, about building generational wealth. You as the parent have various investments, and you don't want a lackadaisical child to squander the family's financial opportunities. You want financial aid, merit aid, and to reduce your tuition load as much as humanely possible. Merit aid is a reduction in tuition. Financial aid is mostly loans. The former is less burdensome than the latter! And no one is giving out merit aid to mediocre students.

I say this as the parent of a kid with ADHD/ASD. The bar for kids with special needs is lower. He did manage to get into a decent college with merit aid, but I agreed to an expensive private university, not the State U that accepted him, because the Disability Office of the private offered him a lot more residential and academic accommodations. Will all those extra payments translate to higher income for him? Probably not. With him, we're on a different scale: that of not closing doors too early. If he can be financially independent when I'm gone, that's all I ask.

So by all means, get another evaluation. Call Stixrud. They're excellent. There is a waitlist, so in the meantime, get your kid an executive functioning coach and start explaining how the world works.

I posted previously that I have a kid like OP’s daughter, and with all due respect this response is exactly the type of explanation/lecture that would make him dig in his heels in his own position.

I would strongly advise against doing or saying any of this with a kid who seems to actually have the game figured out.

It's seriously so out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

She sounds like a normal teen to me. What does she want to do in the future? This is a good time to start looking beyond high school and seeing what is available and what she might want to put her effort towards.

[Anonymous]

"Rebelling against Achievement Culture"?

Sounds like you're encouraging Loserdom.

But sure, AI will take over so why bother? Don't even try. That got us through the Revolution, the Civil War and both World Wars.

All kids go through angst during adolescence when they realize adulthood is around the corner and it's made of goals and work. YOUR job is to cajole, persuade, and outwit your teen, through whatever means at your disposal, and get them on the right track. Yes, there is a right track. The one that gets them into a decent college. Last time I checked, very few kids become successful and happy adults if they don't have a college degree. You'd know it if you had one of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Short answer -

She needs the best GPA she can get, and the best test scores (congrats on the high score!) to get merit aid, which in the long run might prove more useful than a top-ranked name on a diploma.

Long answer -

Academics are not only about knowledge for a future career, general culture and cognitive development. Its immediate importance is about FAMILY MONEY.

I insist on the word family. Teens should care about their parents' expenditures, because it's that much less for their inheritance, or car purchases or downpayments on homes, or whatever else they might need in early adulthood to turbocharge their upward mobility.

This is a conversation, in fact, about building generational wealth. You as the parent have various investments, and you don't want a lackadaisical child to squander the family's financial opportunities. You want financial aid, merit aid, and to reduce your tuition load as much as humanely possible. Merit aid is a reduction in tuition. Financial aid is mostly loans. The former is less burdensome than the latter! And no one is giving out merit aid to mediocre students.

I say this as the parent of a kid with ADHD/ASD. The bar for kids with special needs is lower. He did manage to get into a decent college with merit aid, but I agreed to an expensive private university, not the State U that accepted him, because the Disability Office of the private offered him a lot more residential and academic accommodations. Will all those extra payments translate to higher income for him? Probably not. With him, we're on a different scale: that of not closing doors too early. If he can be financially independent when I'm gone, that's all I ask.

So by all means, get another evaluation. Call Stixrud. They're excellent. There is a waitlist, so in the meantime, get your kid an executive functioning coach and start explaining how the world works.

I posted previously that I have a kid like OP’s daughter, and with all due respect this response is exactly the type of explanation/lecture that would make him dig in his heels in his own position.

I would strongly advise against doing or saying any of this with a kid who seems to actually have the game figured out.

It's seriously so out of touch.

Finances are not an issue for most families? You really think so?

OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

I think she is right that so-called achievement is way over-rated. It really won’t matter in the end anyway.

[Anonymous]

Please keep in mind op,

C’s earn degrees.

[Anonymous]

She’s not rebelling against anything, she feels discouraged.

You need to find ways to stimulate her. I know, easier said than done. Try to be more involved in her school work, maybe it’ll help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's right and it's driving you crazy because you can't admit that maybe, just maybe you are wrong.

Let her steer the car herself and give her gas money when needed.

Terrible advice.

She's immature, has no concept of what it takes to get a good paying job, and you think giving her gas money will help her understand the real world better?

She absolutely does not need to go to a T10, or even T100, but if she wants a good paying job (to pay for gas amongst other things), she will more than likely need some kind of degree.

OP, your DD is fatalistic and she's focusing on top colleges only. And since she knows it's very difficult to get into those colleges, and she thinks AI will take over everything, then why bother with school.

Then ask her, "What's your plan for when you are 18?". Are you planning on leaving her your house? Your fortune such that she doesn't need to work? I'm guessing no. How will she manage?

My 15 yr old knows that she needs to get a good paying job. She's not going to a T20, probably not even a T50. But she has ideas of what she wants to study and what careers she might be interested in. At minimum, she knows that she needs to keep her grades up, even if the dreaded French class she abhors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

(1) Get her evaluated again for ADHD and possibly depression/anxiety
(2) Therapy? She may not be a top achiever academically but she can still take pride in her work and have appreciation for the fact that a foundational understanding of all subjects will help her in life, to say nothing of her ability to present herself in the best light possible for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point of going to high school is to learn not to get into college. Also, there is no excuse for not turning in assignments or skipping class. I always told my kids that I didn't care about their grades as long as they were truly putting forth an effort. In the current high school environment, I would say that a B would be my minimum expectation unless the course was especially challenging or there was a special need involved.

One can learn and not turn in assignments. The goal is graduate HS, and for many, go to college, and for others get a job, which requires a HS diploma, unless you just want to flip burgers.