Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

You are living proof of that old truth that "Rules are for Enemies." For our friends, there are no rules.

I'm really not sure why some people think that the US can or should control Israel. We cannot control other allies and our allies do not control us. But Israel should be different? Why?

Because we pretend to support a rules-based order where certain things are not allowed to anyone.

[Anonymous]

How are Jews treated in Gaza, West Bank, Iran, other Muslim countries? Any apartheid treatment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are Jews treated in Gaza, West Bank, Iran, other Muslim countries? Any apartheid treatment?

Did you seriously just ask how Jews are treated in the West Bank? But to answer your question, yes there is quite a lot of apartheid treatment in the West Bank, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are Jews treated in Gaza, West Bank, Iran, other Muslim countries? Any apartheid treatment?

They’re seemingly happier in the West Bank than in Israel because they get arguably more IdF protection and no mandated military service . Win win.

Netanyahu hasn’t served Israeli’s actual security at all because if he did, he wouldn’t have helped financed two big problems: Hamas and settlers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

You are living proof of that old truth that "Rules are for Enemies." For our friends, there are no rules.

I'm really not sure why some people think that the US can or should control Israel. We cannot control other allies and our allies do not control us. But Israel should be different? Why?

We can't, shouldn't and don't control Israel. Israel is a big boy country that is responsible for their own choices.

Upholding a rules based order where neither territorial conquest nor crimes against humanity are accepted is a core interest of the United States.

[Anonymous]

Obama tried to warn him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are Jews treated in Gaza, West Bank, Iran, other Muslim countries? Any apartheid treatment?

Iranian Jews are seemingly happy enough that they keep refusing Israel paying for them to permanently migrate to Israel .

The Arab world is more mysterious. Barely any Jews exist at least openly in the Arab world but the ones that do are elderly and like over 80 namely in North Africa . They keep up the historic synagogues . I think the tell for me is there are not as many medieval UNESCO world heritage synagogues in Europe . That tells you which hemisphere was more open to Jews and and it was the Eastern one as far out as India and the continent after that most open was South America . It definitely was NOT the US, Canada, or Europe

[Anonymous]

Israel also supported the Tea Party primaries and hired intelligence spy group called Black Cube to spy on President Obama back in 2009 all because Netanyahu was angry the American president had the nerve to warn him about settlement . Lots of rather racist comments as well about Obama were made as well by some prominent Israeli officials

Israel does go overboard and have too much overreach in our affairs .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

Netanyahu is an idiot. He was pillow talking with Putin to spite Obama and Putin disgusted at the duplicity helped Hamas. Serves Bibi right.

[Anonymous]

The only bad part is Israelis suffered because of him . He can’t even pretend to be moderate anymore because he hitched his pony to the most extreme right wing settlers of Israeli society. He’s in a bind and its because he wanted to spite the former Democratic administration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are Jews treated in Gaza, West Bank, Iran, other Muslim countries? Any apartheid treatment?

Iranian Jews are seemingly happy enough that they keep refusing Israel paying for them to permanently migrate to Israel .

The Arab world is more mysterious. Barely any Jews exist at least openly in the Arab world but the ones that do are elderly and like over 80 namely in North Africa . They keep up the historic synagogues . I think the tell for me is there are not as many medieval UNESCO world heritage synagogues in Europe . That tells you which hemisphere was more open to Jews and and it was the Eastern one as far out as India and the continent after that most open was South America . It definitely was NOT the US, Canada, or Europe

Yes— the lack of medieval synagogues in the US and Canada is very illustrative of something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

+1

I am with Biden on this.

We can stand iron-clad to support Israel and Israel's right to exist.
We can stand iron-clad in Israel's defense against threats from iran and potentially others
We can stand with Israel as it tries to free hostages and take out Hamas's operational ability.

In my opinion, since December, Israel has acted with impunity and went well beyond "retribution" and had no operational strategy against Hamas.

I get that some may consider this "abandoning" our alley, or liken this to withholding arms to Ukraine. I wholly disagree with those notions. We stand with israel, but not the current leadership. We are arming Israel in its defense, but not in its wanton destruction of millions of human lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

+1

I am with Biden on this.

We can stand iron-clad to support Israel and Israel's right to exist.
We can stand iron-clad in Israel's defense against threats from iran and potentially others
We can stand with Israel as it tries to free hostages and take out Hamas's operational ability.

In my opinion, since December, Israel has acted with impunity and went well beyond "retribution" and had no operational strategy against Hamas.

I get that some may consider this "abandoning" our alley, or liken this to withholding arms to Ukraine. I wholly disagree with those notions. We stand with israel, but not the current leadership. We are arming Israel in its defense, but not in its wanton destruction of millions of human lives.

So in your world when Israel attacks Iran again we should stand by them? No we should not. We should have let Iran bomb the sh#t out of them. The Israelis only understand violence and death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

+1

I am with Biden on this.

We can stand iron-clad to support Israel and Israel's right to exist.
We can stand iron-clad in Israel's defense against threats from iran and potentially others
We can stand with Israel as it tries to free hostages and take out Hamas's operational ability.

In my opinion, since December, Israel has acted with impunity and went well beyond "retribution" and had no operational strategy against Hamas.

I get that some may consider this "abandoning" our alley, or liken this to withholding arms to Ukraine. I wholly disagree with those notions. We stand with israel, but not the current leadership. We are arming Israel in its defense, but not in its wanton destruction of millions of human lives.

So in your world when Israel attacks Iran again we should stand by them? No we should not. We should have let Iran bomb the sh#t out of them. The Israelis only understand violence and death.

I think you dream of the US supporting Iran is a bit misguided. Their leader lead chants of death to America so I don’t think this one is happening anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

+1

I am with Biden on this.

We can stand iron-clad to support Israel and Israel's right to exist.
We can stand iron-clad in Israel's defense against threats from iran and potentially others
We can stand with Israel as it tries to free hostages and take out Hamas's operational ability.

In my opinion, since December, Israel has acted with impunity and went well beyond "retribution" and had no operational strategy against Hamas.

I get that some may consider this "abandoning" our alley, or liken this to withholding arms to Ukraine. I wholly disagree with those notions. We stand with israel, but not the current leadership. We are arming Israel in its defense, but not in its wanton destruction of millions of human lives.

So in your world when Israel attacks Iran again we should stand by them? No we should not. We should have let Iran bomb the sh#t out of them. The Israelis only understand violence and death.

The last time Israel bombed Iran, it was in response to an Iranian attack. If Iran doesn't attack again, Israel won't retaliate.

If Hamas had returned the hostages, the opportunity for the current campaign to end would increase. But Hamas continues to hold the hostages.