Teen DD rebelling against achievement culture

[Anonymous]

DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

[Anonymous]

Separate getting out of high school with decent grades from getting into college.

Getting through high school allows you to participate in life as she knows it. Anything she would remotely like to do in the future, the baseline assumed by anyone is that has a diploma.

Then, let her take classes that meet the level she wants with the understanding that she does all the work in that class.

[Anonymous]

If she doesn’t go to a prestigious college, that’s fine. But what are her future plans? She might need grades for those.

Read Self-Driven Child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

So sit her down and tell her that no one really knows how AI will affect careers and jobs. Remember when self-driving cars were going to put truck drivers out of business within a decade? Decade came and went and we're desperate for truck drivers. And plenty of jobs can't be replaced by AI.

And on not getting into college, I'm not sure who a 9th grader is aware of trying to get into college, but kids are still going to college. Maybe trouble getting into "elite" colleges, but there are literally THOUSANDS of colleges in the US. So nice try there too.

Ask her what future she does see for herself since she feels college isn't feasible. Military? Trade school?

[Anonymous]

She's right and it's driving you crazy because you can't admit that maybe, just maybe you are wrong.

Let her steer the car herself and give her gas money when needed.

[Anonymous]

My kids are the same. They do well, but don't want to try too hard, love the gym, their friends, sports, leisure time. I think it is a pretty healthy way to think on some level, while it also scares me in the sense I don't want them to flounder. I would actually feel better about it if they wanted to go into something concrete like firefighting, nursing...Something with a clear path.

[Anonymous]

My oldest is like this (14) and I take it as an indicator of his intelligence and common sense. I think being able to identify the endless box-checking as the BS that it is could potentially serve this type of kid well, IF they try just hard enough at the stuff they don’t care about to keep their options open. My kid seems to respond better when I acknowledge that he is correct that so much of what he is expected to do in school is pointless, but that by not just doing it anyway he might be closing some doors for himself.

[Anonymous]

We should all be rebelling against achievement culture. But that doesn’t mean giving up in school and not turning in assignments, etc. There’s something else going on. She needs to find something—at least one thing—to drive some internal motivation. Something that just makes her want to get better, not necessarily be the best at.

[Anonymous]

Waldorf School

[Anonymous]

We got our 9th grade kid an executive function coach to help his motivation. It was wonderful for us (as parents) because my son listened better to another adult not his parents. Plus, it allowed us to not fight about homework all the time. The coach was also able to talk realistically about what goals he had for college (as opposed to us, who clearly knew nothing).

[Anonymous]

The point of going to high school is to learn not to get into college. Also, there is no excuse for not turning in assignments or skipping class. I always told my kids that I didn't care about their grades as long as they were truly putting forth an effort. In the current high school environment, I would say that a B would be my minimum expectation unless the course was especially challenging or there was a special need involved.

[Anonymous]

Short answer -

She needs the best GPA she can get, and the best test scores (congrats on the high score!) to get merit aid, which in the long run might prove more useful than a top-ranked name on a diploma.

Long answer -

Academics are not only about knowledge for a future career, general culture and cognitive development. Its immediate importance is about FAMILY MONEY.

I insist on the word family. Teens should care about their parents' expenditures, because it's that much less for their inheritance, or car purchases or downpayments on homes, or whatever else they might need in early adulthood to turbocharge their upward mobility.

This is a conversation, in fact, about building generational wealth. You as the parent have various investments, and you don't want a lackadaisical child to squander the family's financial opportunities. You want financial aid, merit aid, and to reduce your tuition load as much as humanely possible. Merit aid is a reduction in tuition. Financial aid is mostly loans. The former is less burdensome than the latter! And no one is giving out merit aid to mediocre students.

I say this as the parent of a kid with ADHD/ASD. The bar for kids with special needs is lower. He did manage to get into a decent college with merit aid, but I agreed to an expensive private university, not the State U that accepted him, because the Disability Office of the private offered him a lot more residential and academic accommodations. Will all those extra payments translate to higher income for him? Probably not. With him, we're on a different scale: that of not closing doors too early. If he can be financially independent when I'm gone, that's all I ask.

So by all means, get another evaluation. Call Stixrud. They're excellent. There is a waitlist, so in the meantime, get your kid an executive functioning coach and start explaining how the world works.

[Anonymous]

I’ve got a younger kid like this (albeit more extreme). I think it’s OK to enforce a requirement that all homework get done. You can’t force her to do her best but you can require that she at least get it done.

It also seems possible that she might be struggling a little to keep track of everything. Does she have a planner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is 15YO and finishing 9th grade. This year has been very uneven -- she has had some very good test scores, but lots of missing homework, resulting in some very average grades. Her attitude kind of sucks. She tries in the classes she likes and can't be bothered in the others. When I talk to her about it, she says that she just isn't interested in what they are learning and doesn't see the value in it -- what is the point anyway, because even kids with perfect grades and perfect scores are having trouble getting into college and AI is making jobs obsolete. She wants to focus on her (individual, not school-based) sport and her friends.

She is highly intelligent and used to be motivated in school. She was evaluated for ADHD when she was in early elementary school but I'm wondering if something was missed. Advice?

So sit her down and tell her that no one really knows how AI will affect careers and jobs. Remember when self-driving cars were going to put truck drivers out of business within a decade? Decade came and went and we're desperate for truck drivers. And plenty of jobs can't be replaced by AI.

And on not getting into college, I'm not sure who a 9th grader is aware of trying to get into college, but kids are still going to college. Maybe trouble getting into "elite" colleges, but there are literally THOUSANDS of colleges in the US. So nice try there too.

Ask her what future she does see for herself since she feels college isn't feasible. Military? Trade school?

I was literally just at a panel in a highly regulated field about the impact of AI, and it was said over and over “there must be human supervision of AI.” AI is going to generate jobs, not get rid of them.

But anyway, obviously her reference to AI is just teen drama. I wouldn’t fight her about it, just be firm in saying “grades are important” and making her do her homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are the same. They do well, but don't want to try too hard, love the gym, their friends, sports, leisure time. I think it is a pretty healthy way to think on some level, while it also scares me in the sense I don't want them to flounder. I would actually feel better about it if they wanted to go into something concrete like firefighting, nursing...Something with a clear path.

It sounds like you’re uncomfortable with risk or periods of failure. That’s okay for you, but some people might not want a career with a “clear path” and they might be just fine with more uncertainty and potential downside.