At this point Israel may as well attack Rafah - they've come this fighting Hamas and they say it's their last stronghold...after that it will be a matter of hunting Hamas down in countries they've fled to. And after, the world is going to have to help rebuild Gaza and administer it. Holy hell, what a job!. Maybe Gaza can build back better?
Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....
As opposed to bombing and then forced starvation by Israel of thousands of little kids and babies? I am really stunned by the ability of pot-Israelis to shrug off the suffering of tens of thousands of Palestinian children and the mental gymnastics of blaming the suffering on Hamas, as if Hamas made strategic decisions for the IDF and Netanyahu.
Hamas could return all hostages, living or dead. Yes, they are sadistic to prolong this.
Starving 2 million people, including 1 million children, to punish 20,000 is to you an ironic phrase, beyond the pale.
? I don't understand your point. Hamas has the option to end this. You are reaffirming that they are sadists. Do you deny that they are holding Israeli hostages, many women, and extending this conflict? They had apparently had detente before. Why not now?
It's not a very difficult concept.
It's not a difficult concept to understand that Hamas could end the starvation tomorrow by capitulating and standing down. Hamas has nothing to gain by continuing its fight and is only doing more and more damage to the Palestinian people for every hour that they cling to their delusional positions.
Sorry, no one else in the world agrees with this position. Not even the US anymore. Israel is choosing this barbaric strategy. Israel can choose not to use Palestinian babies as sacrificial lambs, instead Israel has chosen a path that is as morally bankrupt as Hamas.
No one else in the world agrees that Hamas needs to stand down? No one else in the world agrees that Hamas standing down would be progress and a barrier cleared toward helping the Palestinian people avoid famine?
What world is that, exactly? The only world that this would be true in is the Hamas world.
You are obtuse. Everyone civilized agrees that Hamas should return the hostages. Everyone civilized also agrees that Israel's strategy of bringing a famine upon innocent Palestinian children is barbaric. Intelligent people are capable of holding these two positions are once.
Let the women and children out to Egypt and Jordan and other Muslim countries! Oh, that's right NO ONE wants to actually help them . Hamas won't let them go because then the human shields would be gone. So if you really cared about the Palestinian children, then advocate for that first step.
Let the women and children on both sides go. Release the hostages and let people out so that they can receive the aid that is getting stolen everyday.
Palestinians have a right to stay in Gaza. Israel is barbaric in starving innocent children. Israel has agency. Don't be pointing your fingers at everyone else.
That's correct, Israel has Agency to protect themselves from a group of people who have told the world numerous times that they will repeat Oct 7 over and over.
Yes, Israel is protecting itself from infants by starving them to death.
Sorry, you don't even make sense. If Hamas leaders says they are going to repeat Oct 7 over and over and over until Jews are all dead, what do infants have to do with that? A country's government has to take those threats seriously and protect their people.
If you want to help the Palestinian infants, get them out of their war torn country for now. It happens all the time:
war-->refugees--->helpful countries who take them in-->war ends-->people go back.
Don't use infants as shields and martyrs for your cause. Just let the hostage women and children go, and get the women an children away from Hamas where they will get hurt.
Agree with previous poster that the Hamas men seem well fed.
Thing is, if Hamas repeats October 7th over and over and over the far more likely outcome is that all Palestinians will be dead. Why don't they understand history?
This 40 eyes for an eye, 50 teeth for a tooth strategy is not going to work long-term. Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves, and, as they're not a state and don't have a state army, some of them will inevitably wage guerrilla warfare. There will be more and greater terrorist attacks in retaliation. For those pushing the "Israel has the right to starve babies to death" narrative, please understand that you are making the case for Palestinian terrorists to commit similar atrocities.
The "starving of babies" issue is because Hamas is still making it unsafe to conduct large-scale humanitarian relief efforts. Blame Hamas for that. If they stand down, there will be no barriers to providing aid.
This is nonsense. It is very clear that it is Israel is deliberately obstructing the flow of supplies into Gaza. Israeli officials such as Israel Katz, Itamar Ben-Gvir, and Yoav Gallant have made no secret of their intent to deprive Gazans of water, food, and fuel. The Israeli military has bombed farms and greenhouses, killed livestock, and opened fire on Gazans trying to access aid. Three days ago, Israel announced it would no longer approve truckloads of UNRWA aid into northern Gaza, and it's deliberately slowing down the food trucks. There is clear intent to create a man-made famine, which is why Israel is guilty of genocide.
It's frankly astounding how you are able to operate in some parallel universe where somehow Hamas does not exist. Just plain dishonest.
Israel is much much worse vs hamas. What 160 days of Oct7 with no end in site. Truly evil. We all know it is Israel can't live in peace with any country.
I recall seeing the video as they brought her lifeless body into Gaza. What struck me was the savage cheers of all the Palestinians. Even children were abusing that poor woman’s body.
There is no peace to be had with such people. Hamas and their supporters are no different than ISIS.
Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.
Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.
Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?
Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.
Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.
I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?
You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.
The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?
That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.
Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.
Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?
How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.
Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?
I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.
How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.
Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.
I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.
The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.
Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.
I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.
Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.
From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle.
Maybe you should look up the uniquely Israeli feat of legal cruelty called Present Absentees.
DP.
All I needed was the bit above:
many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal
When you don't own the land, you don't own the land. In just about ever country in the world including the Arab world, if the building you live in changes hands, the new owners very much have the right to evict you. Not sure how or why Palestine should somehow be a unique special snowflake kind of place where the legal land owners have no rights over the lands they purchased. If that's the case then what's even the point of deeds?
I will say the same should apply to Israeli settlers too. If they do not have legal ownership or a legal landlord-tenant agreement with the current landowners then they are illegal squatters and are subject to be evicted at the landowner's request.
No, under international law, they couldn't simply evict the Palestinians. Do you think the Trail of Tears was justified? How about the deportation of Armenians as part of the Armenian genocide? Israel was supposed to administer the land, not steal it without compensation. That is why the UN passed Resolution 194, which states:
"The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that 'refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.'"
Israel must, under international law, either accommodate all Palestinians who choose to return or compensate them for their stolen property. Until Israel faces up to its mendacious and genocidal past, Palestinians are going to hate and resent it.
Oops. Hamas and other Palestinian organizations repeatedly violated that clause.
Actually, Israel won't allow the Palestinians' right to return because Palestinians returning from exile would quickly outnumber Jews. Israel is strongly invested in keeping the number of Israeli Arabs much lower than the number of Israeli Jews. Also, Israel has not compensated Palestinians for the land, money, possessions, and lives that it has stolen over the past several decades. Until Israel honors 194, Palestinians have no duty to honor 181.
Most of them were tenants and not landowners.
If that were true, there wouldn’t be a need for the Absentee Property laws.
Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....
As opposed to bombing and then forced starvation by Israel of thousands of little kids and babies? I am really stunned by the ability of pot-Israelis to shrug off the suffering of tens of thousands of Palestinian children and the mental gymnastics of blaming the suffering on Hamas, as if Hamas made strategic decisions for the IDF and Netanyahu.
Hamas could return all hostages, living or dead. Yes, they are sadistic to prolong this.
Starving 2 million people, including 1 million children, to punish 20,000 is to you an ironic phrase, beyond the pale.
? I don't understand your point. Hamas has the option to end this. You are reaffirming that they are sadists. Do you deny that they are holding Israeli hostages, many women, and extending this conflict? They had apparently had detente before. Why not now?
It's not a very difficult concept.
It's not a difficult concept to understand that Hamas could end the starvation tomorrow by capitulating and standing down. Hamas has nothing to gain by continuing its fight and is only doing more and more damage to the Palestinian people for every hour that they cling to their delusional positions.
Sorry, no one else in the world agrees with this position. Not even the US anymore. Israel is choosing this barbaric strategy. Israel can choose not to use Palestinian babies as sacrificial lambs, instead Israel has chosen a path that is as morally bankrupt as Hamas.
No one else in the world agrees that Hamas needs to stand down? No one else in the world agrees that Hamas standing down would be progress and a barrier cleared toward helping the Palestinian people avoid famine?
What world is that, exactly? The only world that this would be true in is the Hamas world.
You are obtuse. Everyone civilized agrees that Hamas should return the hostages. Everyone civilized also agrees that Israel's strategy of bringing a famine upon innocent Palestinian children is barbaric. Intelligent people are capable of holding these two positions are once.
Let the women and children out to Egypt and Jordan and other Muslim countries! Oh, that's right NO ONE wants to actually help them . Hamas won't let them go because then the human shields would be gone. So if you really cared about the Palestinian children, then advocate for that first step.
Let the women and children on both sides go. Release the hostages and let people out so that they can receive the aid that is getting stolen everyday.
Palestinians have a right to stay in Gaza. Israel is barbaric in starving innocent children. Israel has agency. Don't be pointing your fingers at everyone else.
That's correct, Israel has Agency to protect themselves from a group of people who have told the world numerous times that they will repeat Oct 7 over and over.
Yes, Israel is protecting itself from infants by starving them to death.
Sorry, you don't even make sense. If Hamas leaders says they are going to repeat Oct 7 over and over and over until Jews are all dead, what do infants have to do with that? A country's government has to take those threats seriously and protect their people.
If you want to help the Palestinian infants, get them out of their war torn country for now. It happens all the time:
war-->refugees--->helpful countries who take them in-->war ends-->people go back.
Don't use infants as shields and martyrs for your cause. Just let the hostage women and children go, and get the women an children away from Hamas where they will get hurt.
Agree with previous poster that the Hamas men seem well fed.
Thing is, if Hamas repeats October 7th over and over and over the far more likely outcome is that all Palestinians will be dead. Why don't they understand history?
This 40 eyes for an eye, 50 teeth for a tooth strategy is not going to work long-term. Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves, and, as they're not a state and don't have a state army, some of them will inevitably wage guerrilla warfare. There will be more and greater terrorist attacks in retaliation. For those pushing the "Israel has the right to starve babies to death" narrative, please understand that you are making the case for Palestinian terrorists to commit similar atrocities.
The "starving of babies" issue is because Hamas is still making it unsafe to conduct large-scale humanitarian relief efforts. Blame Hamas for that. If they stand down, there will be no barriers to providing aid.
Hamas isn’t firing at aid trucks at inspection stations from their naval gunboats. Israel is.
Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.
Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.
Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?
Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.
Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.
I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?
You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.
The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?
That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.
Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.
Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?
How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.
Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?
I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.
How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.
Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.
I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.
The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.
Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.
I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.
Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.
From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle.
Maybe you should look up the uniquely Israeli feat of legal cruelty called Present Absentees.
DP.
All I needed was the bit above:
many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal
When you don't own the land, you don't own the land. In just about ever country in the world including the Arab world, if the building you live in changes hands, the new owners very much have the right to evict you. Not sure how or why Palestine should somehow be a unique special snowflake kind of place where the legal land owners have no rights over the lands they purchased. If that's the case then what's even the point of deeds?
I will say the same should apply to Israeli settlers too. If they do not have legal ownership or a legal landlord-tenant agreement with the current landowners then they are illegal squatters and are subject to be evicted at the landowner's request.
No, under international law, they couldn't simply evict the Palestinians. Do you think the Trail of Tears was justified? How about the deportation of Armenians as part of the Armenian genocide? Israel was supposed to administer the land, not steal it without compensation. That is why the UN passed Resolution 194, which states:
"The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that 'refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.'"
Israel must, under international law, either accommodate all Palestinians who choose to return or compensate them for their stolen property. Until Israel faces up to its mendacious and genocidal past, Palestinians are going to hate and resent it.
Oops. Hamas and other Palestinian organizations repeatedly violated that clause.
Actually, Israel won't allow the Palestinians' right to return because Palestinians returning from exile would quickly outnumber Jews. Israel is strongly invested in keeping the number of Israeli Arabs much lower than the number of Israeli Jews. Also, Israel has not compensated Palestinians for the land, money, possessions, and lives that it has stolen over the past several decades. Until Israel honors 194, Palestinians have no duty to honor 181.
Most of them were tenants and not landowners.
If that were true, there wouldn’t be a need for the Absentee Property laws.
That kind of practice is pretty standard. Here in the US, if there's an absentee landowner, who has been unreachable/unresponsive and there are administrative issues such as past due property taxes and so on, the land is eventually confiscated by the government and then made available to the market. That's typical for most other countries as well.
You keep making these assertions, like "The Turks ceded all their lands to Palestinian Arabs" but when you're asked for a citation or evidence you just change the subject - that tells me you don't actually have any evidence to back up this stream of assertions. You seem to think that your attitude of righteousness somehow allows you to lie and make things up with impunity.
Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....
As opposed to bombing and then forced starvation by Israel of thousands of little kids and babies? I am really stunned by the ability of pot-Israelis to shrug off the suffering of tens of thousands of Palestinian children and the mental gymnastics of blaming the suffering on Hamas, as if Hamas made strategic decisions for the IDF and Netanyahu.
Hamas could return all hostages, living or dead. Yes, they are sadistic to prolong this.
Starving 2 million people, including 1 million children, to punish 20,000 is to you an ironic phrase, beyond the pale.
? I don't understand your point. Hamas has the option to end this. You are reaffirming that they are sadists. Do you deny that they are holding Israeli hostages, many women, and extending this conflict? They had apparently had detente before. Why not now?
reference for this please that isn't Hamas.
It's not a very difficult concept.
It's not a difficult concept to understand that Hamas could end the starvation tomorrow by capitulating and standing down. Hamas has nothing to gain by continuing its fight and is only doing more and more damage to the Palestinian people for every hour that they cling to their delusional positions.
Sorry, no one else in the world agrees with this position. Not even the US anymore. Israel is choosing this barbaric strategy. Israel can choose not to use Palestinian babies as sacrificial lambs, instead Israel has chosen a path that is as morally bankrupt as Hamas.
No one else in the world agrees that Hamas needs to stand down? No one else in the world agrees that Hamas standing down would be progress and a barrier cleared toward helping the Palestinian people avoid famine?
What world is that, exactly? The only world that this would be true in is the Hamas world.
You are obtuse. Everyone civilized agrees that Hamas should return the hostages. Everyone civilized also agrees that Israel's strategy of bringing a famine upon innocent Palestinian children is barbaric. Intelligent people are capable of holding these two positions are once.
Let the women and children out to Egypt and Jordan and other Muslim countries! Oh, that's right NO ONE wants to actually help them . Hamas won't let them go because then the human shields would be gone. So if you really cared about the Palestinian children, then advocate for that first step.
Let the women and children on both sides go. Release the hostages and let people out so that they can receive the aid that is getting stolen everyday.
Palestinians have a right to stay in Gaza. Israel is barbaric in starving innocent children. Israel has agency. Don't be pointing your fingers at everyone else.
That's correct, Israel has Agency to protect themselves from a group of people who have told the world numerous times that they will repeat Oct 7 over and over.
Yes, Israel is protecting itself from infants by starving them to death.
Sorry, you don't even make sense. If Hamas leaders says they are going to repeat Oct 7 over and over and over until Jews are all dead, what do infants have to do with that? A country's government has to take those threats seriously and protect their people.
If you want to help the Palestinian infants, get them out of their war torn country for now. It happens all the time:
war-->refugees--->helpful countries who take them in-->war ends-->people go back.
Don't use infants as shields and martyrs for your cause. Just let the hostage women and children go, and get the women an children away from Hamas where they will get hurt.
Agree with previous poster that the Hamas men seem well fed.
Thing is, if Hamas repeats October 7th over and over and over the far more likely outcome is that all Palestinians will be dead. Why don't they understand history?
This 40 eyes for an eye, 50 teeth for a tooth strategy is not going to work long-term. Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves, and, as they're not a state and don't have a state army, some of them will inevitably wage guerrilla warfare. There will be more and greater terrorist attacks in retaliation. For those pushing the "Israel has the right to starve babies to death" narrative, please understand that you are making the case for Palestinian terrorists to commit similar atrocities.
The "starving of babies" issue is because Hamas is still making it unsafe to conduct large-scale humanitarian relief efforts. Blame Hamas for that. If they stand down, there will be no barriers to providing aid.
Hamas isn’t firing at aid trucks at inspection stations from their naval gunboats. Israel is.
Anonymous wrote:The sadism of Hamas is what I can't get out of my head....
As opposed to bombing and then forced starvation by Israel of thousands of little kids and babies? I am really stunned by the ability of pot-Israelis to shrug off the suffering of tens of thousands of Palestinian children and the mental gymnastics of blaming the suffering on Hamas, as if Hamas made strategic decisions for the IDF and Netanyahu.
Hamas could return all hostages, living or dead. Yes, they are sadistic to prolong this.
Starving 2 million people, including 1 million children, to punish 20,000 is to you an ironic phrase, beyond the pale.
? I don't understand your point. Hamas has the option to end this. You are reaffirming that they are sadists. Do you deny that they are holding Israeli hostages, many women, and extending this conflict? They had apparently had detente before. Why not now?
It's not a very difficult concept.
It's not a difficult concept to understand that Hamas could end the starvation tomorrow by capitulating and standing down. Hamas has nothing to gain by continuing its fight and is only doing more and more damage to the Palestinian people for every hour that they cling to their delusional positions.
Sorry, no one else in the world agrees with this position. Not even the US anymore. Israel is choosing this barbaric strategy. Israel can choose not to use Palestinian babies as sacrificial lambs, instead Israel has chosen a path that is as morally bankrupt as Hamas.
No one else in the world agrees that Hamas needs to stand down? No one else in the world agrees that Hamas standing down would be progress and a barrier cleared toward helping the Palestinian people avoid famine?
What world is that, exactly? The only world that this would be true in is the Hamas world.
You are obtuse. Everyone civilized agrees that Hamas should return the hostages. Everyone civilized also agrees that Israel's strategy of bringing a famine upon innocent Palestinian children is barbaric. Intelligent people are capable of holding these two positions are once.
Let the women and children out to Egypt and Jordan and other Muslim countries! Oh, that's right NO ONE wants to actually help them . Hamas won't let them go because then the human shields would be gone. So if you really cared about the Palestinian children, then advocate for that first step.
Let the women and children on both sides go. Release the hostages and let people out so that they can receive the aid that is getting stolen everyday.
Palestinians have a right to stay in Gaza. Israel is barbaric in starving innocent children. Israel has agency. Don't be pointing your fingers at everyone else.
That's correct, Israel has Agency to protect themselves from a group of people who have told the world numerous times that they will repeat Oct 7 over and over.
Yes, Israel is protecting itself from infants by starving them to death.
Sorry, you don't even make sense. If Hamas leaders says they are going to repeat Oct 7 over and over and over until Jews are all dead, what do infants have to do with that? A country's government has to take those threats seriously and protect their people.
If you want to help the Palestinian infants, get them out of their war torn country for now. It happens all the time:
war-->refugees--->helpful countries who take them in-->war ends-->people go back.
Don't use infants as shields and martyrs for your cause. Just let the hostage women and children go, and get the women an children away from Hamas where they will get hurt.
Agree with previous poster that the Hamas men seem well fed.
Thing is, if Hamas repeats October 7th over and over and over the far more likely outcome is that all Palestinians will be dead. Why don't they understand history?
This 40 eyes for an eye, 50 teeth for a tooth strategy is not going to work long-term. Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves, and, as they're not a state and don't have a state army, some of them will inevitably wage guerrilla warfare. There will be more and greater terrorist attacks in retaliation. For those pushing the "Israel has the right to starve babies to death" narrative, please understand that you are making the case for Palestinian terrorists to commit similar atrocities.
The "starving of babies" issue is because Hamas is still making it unsafe to conduct large-scale humanitarian relief efforts. Blame Hamas for that. If they stand down, there will be no barriers to providing aid.
Hamas isn’t firing at aid trucks at inspection stations from their naval gunboats. Israel is.
Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.
Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.
Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?
Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.
Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.
I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?
You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.
The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?
That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.
Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.
Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?
How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.
Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?
I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.
How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.
Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.
I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.
The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.
Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.
I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.
Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.
From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle.
Maybe you should look up the uniquely Israeli feat of legal cruelty called Present Absentees.
DP.
All I needed was the bit above:
many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal
When you don't own the land, you don't own the land. In just about ever country in the world including the Arab world, if the building you live in changes hands, the new owners very much have the right to evict you. Not sure how or why Palestine should somehow be a unique special snowflake kind of place where the legal land owners have no rights over the lands they purchased. If that's the case then what's even the point of deeds?
I will say the same should apply to Israeli settlers too. If they do not have legal ownership or a legal landlord-tenant agreement with the current landowners then they are illegal squatters and are subject to be evicted at the landowner's request.
No, under international law, they couldn't simply evict the Palestinians. Do you think the Trail of Tears was justified? How about the deportation of Armenians as part of the Armenian genocide? Israel was supposed to administer the land, not steal it without compensation. That is why the UN passed Resolution 194, which states:
"The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that 'refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.'"
Israel must, under international law, either accommodate all Palestinians who choose to return or compensate them for their stolen property. Until Israel faces up to its mendacious and genocidal past, Palestinians are going to hate and resent it.
Oops. Hamas and other Palestinian organizations repeatedly violated that clause.
Actually, Israel won't allow the Palestinians' right to return because Palestinians returning from exile would quickly outnumber Jews. Israel is strongly invested in keeping the number of Israeli Arabs much lower than the number of Israeli Jews. Also, Israel has not compensated Palestinians for the land, money, possessions, and lives that it has stolen over the past several decades. Until Israel honors 194, Palestinians have no duty to honor 181.
Most of them were tenants and not landowners.
If that were true, there wouldn’t be a need for the Absentee Property laws.
That kind of practice is pretty standard. Here in the US, if there's an absentee landowner, who has been unreachable/unresponsive and there are administrative issues such as past due property taxes and so on, the land is eventually confiscated by the government and then made available to the market. That's typical for most other countries as well.
You keep making these assertions, like "The Turks ceded all their lands to Palestinian Arabs" but when you're asked for a citation or evidence you just change the subject - that tells me you don't actually have any evidence to back up this stream of assertions. You seem to think that your attitude of righteousness somehow allows you to lie and make things up with impunity.
That is not have present absenteeism works. These people are contactable and live in Israel but are not allowed to be present. Hence present absentee. It's really quite an insidious rule.
I recall seeing the video as they brought her lifeless body into Gaza. What struck me was the savage cheers of all the Palestinians. Even children were abusing that poor woman’s body.
There is no peace to be had with such people. Hamas and their supporters are no different than ISIS.
Shani Louk was a really sad story. However, Israel says she was beheaded and already dead on 10/7 but her own mom said she was alive but severely injured from a gunshot to the head when taken to a Gazan hospital
Anonymous wrote:Shani Louk was a really sad story. However, Israel says she was beheaded and already dead on 10/7 but her own mom said she was alive but severely injured from a gunshot to the head when taken to a Gazan hospital
Anonymous wrote:Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews.
Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism.
Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions?
Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech.
Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.
I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?
You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief.
The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?
That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7.
Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that.
Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape?
How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.
Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future?
I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.
How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome.
Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers.
I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned.
The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins.
Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them.
I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.
Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered.
From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle.
Maybe you should look up the uniquely Israeli feat of legal cruelty called Present Absentees.
DP.
All I needed was the bit above:
many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal
When you don't own the land, you don't own the land. In just about ever country in the world including the Arab world, if the building you live in changes hands, the new owners very much have the right to evict you. Not sure how or why Palestine should somehow be a unique special snowflake kind of place where the legal land owners have no rights over the lands they purchased. If that's the case then what's even the point of deeds?
I will say the same should apply to Israeli settlers too. If they do not have legal ownership or a legal landlord-tenant agreement with the current landowners then they are illegal squatters and are subject to be evicted at the landowner's request.
No, under international law, they couldn't simply evict the Palestinians. Do you think the Trail of Tears was justified? How about the deportation of Armenians as part of the Armenian genocide? Israel was supposed to administer the land, not steal it without compensation. That is why the UN passed Resolution 194, which states:
"The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that 'refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.'"
Israel must, under international law, either accommodate all Palestinians who choose to return or compensate them for their stolen property. Until Israel faces up to its mendacious and genocidal past, Palestinians are going to hate and resent it.
Oops. Hamas and other Palestinian organizations repeatedly violated that clause.
Actually, Israel won't allow the Palestinians' right to return because Palestinians returning from exile would quickly outnumber Jews. Israel is strongly invested in keeping the number of Israeli Arabs much lower than the number of Israeli Jews. Also, Israel has not compensated Palestinians for the land, money, possessions, and lives that it has stolen over the past several decades. Until Israel honors 194, Palestinians have no duty to honor 181.
Most of them were tenants and not landowners.
If that were true, there wouldn’t be a need for the Absentee Property laws.
That kind of practice is pretty standard. Here in the US, if there's an absentee landowner, who has been unreachable/unresponsive and there are administrative issues such as past due property taxes and so on, the land is eventually confiscated by the government and then made available to the market. That's typical for most other countries as well.
You keep making these assertions, like "The Turks ceded all their lands to Palestinian Arabs" but when you're asked for a citation or evidence you just change the subject - that tells me you don't actually have any evidence to back up this stream of assertions. You seem to think that your attitude of righteousness somehow allows you to lie and make things up with impunity.
Why do you keep lying? Israeli Absentee Property laws are for people who are known and contactable but happen to be non-Jewish. It’s a cruel trick to first expel people and forcibly prevent them from returning, and then punish them for not being present. And if they somehow escaped expulsion then guess what? They are still absentees, Present Absentees.
I mean look. You can weasel all you want. The fact of the matter is that the Jewish state, at inception, always implied a Jewish majority and a Jewish rule. Early Zionist writings make it perfectly clear. And if the current numbers of Arabs made Jewish majority impossibly, then Arabs had to be culled, and they have been. There would be no Jewish state if current numbers of Arabs were unchanged. End of story.
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