Screened for drugs without permission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

It wouldn't be so hard if doctors themselves didn't lobby so aggressively to keep the number of doctors in short supply.

Right. Because that’s totes what’s stopping you.

You're a disgusting human being, I feel bad for your patients.

Don’t. I work in public health. They are so happy to have me. None of them are entitled a$$holes like the complainers on this thread. I don’t have to deal with their ridiculous whining. We have a great time.

You have no idea how much you disgust me. Doctors like you are the reason I probably will skip out on prenatal care next pregnancy.

Believe me - patients like you are no loss to us.

[Anonymous]

Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a routine part of pregnancy testing. They do not treat women who come back positive as criminals.

This is absolutely false. They will call CPS

No, what you wrote is false.

You need to become familiar with the 2016 federal CARA Act and how it changed the requirement under CAPTA requiring health care providers to notify CPS if they are involved in the delivery and care of an infant born and identified as being affected by substance abuse or withdrawal symptoms resulting from prenatal substance exposure.

Under CARA, states are specifically enjoined not to take substance exposure in utero on its own as sufficient to make a report of abuse or neglect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s important medical information and should be routine. If a baby is going to go through withdrawal symptoms after delivery or there are medical complications associated with the drugs the providers need to know.

You think medical tests should be given without consent? Because I agree that this is useful medical information, but the point is that it is being collected in a dishonest and unethical way. If providers want to know, they should build trust that they won't go running to CPS and then actually ask the patient and then don't go running to CPS.

Otherwise, you have doctors intervening without patient consent and in addition to eroding trust in the medical system more generally, the result is that drug users will not seek prenatal care at all.

They don't. See above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had the same experience. My doctor just said they were going to run prenatal blood tests and we discussed the NT screen part of the test and any family history genetic screening tests. It did seem that they went out of their way not to mention anything controversial, like STD, HIV or drug testing, that was also included. I think they just wanted to check the box without having to argue with patients that it wasn't necessary. I'm sure I never asked specifically, but they also absolutely didn't mention it. This does seem to be a standard practice.

To be tested for HIV you need to sign a specific paper.

You did 20 years ago, yes. That is not an ongoing requirement at all places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

I missed the part where OP was drugged and passed out. Sitting down in a phlebotomist’s chair and letting someone poke a needle into your arm, drawing your blood and watching them package it away (“confirm your birthdate and name please”) is consent. She’s the idiot who didn’t ask what they were drawing blood for.

[Anonymous]

“The ACOG does not support universal UDS but instead limits testing to high risk patients. Few studies have evaluated the utility of universal UDS results among mothers admitted to Labor and Delivery (L&D)“

Patients should be screened with a validated drug screening questionnaire as early as possible antepartum. They should be referred to treatment facilities/programs etc. Drug testing requires consent and is NOT part of standard practice.

Family and Child Services are not automatically called for a positive test. They will notified if the baby has withdrawl symptoms or tests positive after delivery. Family services hopes to keep children safe and families together-let’s not assume they want to remove kids from their parents.

For anyone who has struggled with drugs or alcohol in the past, you aren’t alone. Pleaser talk to your healthcare provider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

I missed the part where OP was drugged and passed out. Sitting down in a phlebotomist’s chair and letting someone poke a needle into your arm, drawing your blood and watching them package it away (“confirm your birthdate and name please”) is consent. She’s the idiot who didn’t ask what they were drawing blood for.

That isn’t what informed consent is. If you’re truly in the medical field you’re aware of that fact. Read the ACOG guidance someone has already posted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

I missed the part where OP was drugged and passed out. Sitting down in a phlebotomist’s chair and letting someone poke a needle into your arm, drawing your blood and watching them package it away (“confirm your birthdate and name please”) is consent. She’s the idiot who didn’t ask what they were drawing blood for.

That isn’t what informed consent is. If you’re truly in the medical field you’re aware of that fact. Read the ACOG guidance someone has already posted.

If you think ACOG guidance is law then it would be you who is ill-informed.

[Anonymous]

She gave consent. She acknowledged that she gave consent. Next time, don’t sign anything until and unless you read allll the fine print and agree.

This is not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Wow. The medical industry is NOT your friend. Wake up, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They also run a full std panel. It’s a normal part of early blood tests. I was surprised too. But not offended. It’s not personal.

My doctor (at Foxhall, FWIW) specifically asked if I wanted an STD panel and indicated they would not order the test without my consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She gave consent. She acknowledged that she gave consent. Next time, don’t sign anything until and unless you read allll the fine print and agree.

This is not that complicated.

This is really dumb. She didn't sign anything specific to the drug test. She might have signed some blanket consent to treat. You are effectively claiming the correct response if you don't want a particular treatment is to give birth in your bathroom with zero medical assistance before or during, because that is the only option available to people who don't sign a general consent to treat form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

I missed the part where OP was drugged and passed out. Sitting down in a phlebotomist’s chair and letting someone poke a needle into your arm, drawing your blood and watching them package it away (“confirm your birthdate and name please”) is consent. She’s the idiot who didn’t ask what they were drawing blood for.

That isn’t what informed consent is. If you’re truly in the medical field you’re aware of that fact. Read the ACOG guidance someone has already posted.

If you think ACOG guidance is law then it would be you who is ill-informed.

I didn’t say it was law. I said informed consent isn’t not objecting when someone says they’re taking your blood for a prenatal screening.

Patients with nothing to fear from this (I.e. wealthy patients who aren’t going to test positive) should report this behavior to state licensing boards. It’s the only way violations will be taken seriously.