Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Sigh.... in regards to the haters. St Andrews is only 20% American.

My DC is friends with a lot of international kids and other Americans, less so with Scots and Brits. He loves, loves loves it there. Studies only the subjects he is interested in and it is truly a deep dive rather than a liberal arts education. HE travels all over Europe on breaks, has grown immensely in terms of his sophistication and understanding of the world. As has been said, it's not for everyone. You need to be independent and self-driven.

And....Yes he was a high stats kid who did not get into am Ivy but chose ST Andrews over Emory and Michigan bc he wanted the international experience. He is incredibly happy, doing well and it's half the price of many US schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess these same people would have these same criticisms of Oxford and Cambridge?

No. St Andrews actively targets Americans for the $$$ then lets some of them down. It’s 40% American. OXFORD has only 176 total Americans at less than 1.76 percent. It’s much more difficult to get in as an American. Oxford is also more than 60% international (with Americans being a small portion) whereas St Andrews has a hugely disproportionate no of Americans. So Oxbridge degrees for Americans are more highly valued

It’s a shame that the Oxbridge crowd, can’t accept the fact it is now Stoxbridge and move on. They just have to keep trying to beat St Andrews down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess these same people would have these same criticisms of Oxford and Cambridge?

No. St Andrews actively targets Americans for the $$$ then lets some of them down. It’s 40% American. OXFORD has only 176 total Americans at less than 1.76 percent. It’s much more difficult to get in as an American. Oxford is also more than 60% international (with Americans being a small portion) whereas St Andrews has a hugely disproportionate no of Americans. So Oxbridge degrees for Americans are more highly valued

It’s a shame that the Oxbridge crowd, can’t accept the fact it is now Stoxbridge and move on. They just have to keep trying to beat St Andrews down.

there is no such thing as "stoxbridge" I asked my son at Oxbridge and he laughed and laughed and laughed. It's certainly not happening there at Oxford

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess these same people would have these same criticisms of Oxford and Cambridge?

No. St Andrews actively targets Americans for the $$$ then lets some of them down. It’s 40% American. OXFORD has only 176 total Americans at less than 1.76 percent. It’s much more difficult to get in as an American. Oxford is also more than 60% international (with Americans being a small portion) whereas St Andrews has a hugely disproportionate no of Americans. So Oxbridge degrees for Americans are more highly valued

It’s a shame that the Oxbridge crowd, can’t accept the fact it is now Stoxbridge and move on. They just have to keep trying to beat St Andrews down.

there is no such thing as "stoxbridge" I asked my son at Oxbridge and he laughed and laughed and laughed. It's certainly not happening there at Oxford

things that didn't happen for 1000, please. signed, Oxford alum. people dont say oxbridge either, really. it's a term that's used in writing. but nobody laughs and laughs and laughs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess these same people would have these same criticisms of Oxford and Cambridge?

No. St Andrews actively targets Americans for the $$$ then lets some of them down. It’s 40% American. OXFORD has only 176 total Americans at less than 1.76 percent. It’s much more difficult to get in as an American. Oxford is also more than 60% international (with Americans being a small portion) whereas St Andrews has a hugely disproportionate no of Americans. So Oxbridge degrees for Americans are more highly valued

It’s a shame that the Oxbridge crowd, can’t accept the fact it is now Stoxbridge and move on. They just have to keep trying to beat St Andrews down.

there is no such thing as "stoxbridge" I asked my son at Oxbridge and he laughed and laughed and laughed. It's certainly not happening there at Oxford

things that didn't happen for 1000, please. signed, Oxford alum. people dont say oxbridge either, really. it's a term that's used in writing. but nobody laughs and laughs and laughs

DP but I too mentioned the “stoxbridge” nonsense to my son, who is a grad student at Oxford and he DID laugh and said no one says such a thing. And, yes, “Oxbridge” is a thing in large part because top British students are gunning for one or the other and they must pick one to apply to. You cannot apply to both. And when you are there m, you refer to the other not by name but as “the other place”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi Everyone's info is out of date.
According to our CC at our DC private - which sends kids every year to St Andrew's- Last years admit rate for UK students was 11% - perhaps due to recent Guardian and London Times articles. For rich full pay US students the acceptance rate is also it's waaaaay down- about 25% last year. I'm sure you can guess why- it's a great education and a fantastic option for adventurous US kids who were, again, full-pay so no one is crying for them, but unhooked and getting shut out of US Ivy League. So we are worried about our relatively high stats kid getting in this year. I do hear the UK kids think the US kids are less qualified, and they have a point (not UNqualified, just probably less...)

Not just shut out of Ivy League. Shut out from “‘competitive”” colleges across the board. We know kids who didn’’t get into any school they applied to here in States and turned to St. Andrews for alternative. St Andrews is not the Ivy League. St Andrews is easier to get into for some kids because ECs not a factor, among other things.

[Anonymous]

Hear me out- American universities try harder to offer a better education and experience, because our rankings, for better or worse, keep our universities in the business of customer service. St Andrews is raking in heaps of American money, but is often indifferent to what is considered basic customer service here. What this looks like in real life- limited housing- a large percentage of St Andrews students are housed in dorms belonging to University of Dundee. This is an hour away by bus. The university provides a shuttle bus. Students coming from Dundee don’t have a home base in town, they wander around until it’s time to get on the bus to go back to Dundee. Professors are frequently on strike. Courses assess students with one midterm, one final each semester, no other grades, papers, quizzes. Not surprisingly, students grades may not reflect their accomplishment or knowledge when there are just two grades per semester. American professors work a little harder to assess students more accurately. St Andrews does not allow the dual major track of science AND the arts for example- you are limited to either/or. So - no Biology majors with Spanish minors for example. Anecdotally, the handful of European and UK families I’ve met via different boarding schools, and in our city, have all chosen American Universities for their students, even though the parents were educated in UK and Europe. They all say a different version of the same thing- American system is a better value and better run. St Andrews is cheaper tuition, but there are some pretty big headaches, and you still need deep pockets if you want to actually live within a ten mile radius of school. Before you commit to St Andrews, consider whether Boulder might actually be the superior school! Wisconsin, Northwestern, Syracuse, NYU-all schools chosen by just the UK and European families I know. We’ve thought a lot about their choices as we contemplate our student’s own options. Our student spent a couple years at St Andrews and transferred out. It has topped a few rankings lists in the UK- but the UK schools are all similar- they are run with a government agency mindset rather than a private business mindset. St Andrews is probably best for a year abroad or maybe grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Everyone's info is out of date.
According to our CC at our DC private - which sends kids every year to St Andrew's- Last years admit rate for UK students was 11% - perhaps due to recent Guardian and London Times articles. For rich full pay US students the acceptance rate is also it's waaaaay down- about 25% last year. I'm sure you can guess why- it's a great education and a fantastic option for adventurous US kids who were, again, full-pay so no one is crying for them, but unhooked and getting shut out of US Ivy League. So we are worried about our relatively high stats kid getting in this year. I do hear the UK kids think the US kids are less qualified, and they have a point (not UNqualified, just probably less...)

Not just shut out of Ivy League. Shut out from “‘competitive”” colleges across the board. We know kids who didn’’t get into any school they applied to here in States and turned to St. Andrews for alternative. St Andrews is not the Ivy League. St Andrews is easier to get into for some kids because ECs not a factor, among other things.

+1

Americans incorrectly presume that St. Andrews is prestigious, due to Harry having attended. St. Andrews is a fine school, but it is not prestigious. I have met some cocky you know whats from there, but I like to think not all the St. Andrews students are that way. OTOH, I know some Oxford alum who are very down to earth (maybe because they are British and polite).

[Anonymous]

Prestige is subjective. I agree with you though. As a customer of higher education, what does a school offer that’s of deep value to you as a “consumer”? St Andrews offers a very British education in a pretty town.

Setting perceived prestige aside, consider whether Rutgers, or University of Oregon, or Denison, or Santa Clara offer a depth of coursework, an alumni network, study abroad programming, internship and career networking, that are not available at St Andrews? There’s a very good chance that they do. PS it was William, not Harry, at St Andrews but no matter- Americans glom them all together in one misty royal bubble. Today’s college bound seniors are young enough to be William and Kate’s children! I suspect the lure of William and Kate being alums is less interesting to the Gen Z students.

[Anonymous]

Can confirm something kind of similar! I was just talking to my neighbor about the administration at St Andrews. She said her son was waiting to hear if he can transfer from their William and Mary dual degree program to full time at St Andrews. He applied months ago. They didn’t give him a date he’d hear by. He’s still waiting to hear. And waiting. And waiting! It’s pretty much April.

He’s over there right now, but needs to hear if he should pack up all his things and bring them back to the States? Or- should he find storage there and work on finding housing? He’s supposed to come home soon! Hard to make plans when you’re waiting on a disorganized administration! It sounds like they really aren’t worried about keeping their current students happy because there are more Americans where these came from! He likes it there, it sounds like it’s not very predictable administration-wise.

[Anonymous]

UK and US higher education systems are very different and those choosing to go abroad need to understand those differences and manage expectations accordingly.

In the UK the student reads for their degree, and there is limited faculty and TA interaction compared to the US model. Only a couple of graded assignments, so students need to put effort into those assignments and get them in on time. UK and EU students are used to this model, US students not so much.

Decisions on admissions can be unconditional or conditional. If conditional, student don’t know where they are going until mid summer when A level results are released.

In the UK the student is an adult and everything goes through them. UK administrators have no patience for US helicopter parents.

St Andrews is a fine university and provides an excellent education, but one that is very different than what finds in the US. Little or no group projects, very few if any multiple choice exams, no quizzes to help students prepare for exams.

Add in the short days, cold and rain and it is not an environment that suits everyone. But if you know what you are getting into it can be a wonderful experience and is a great value in education today.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if it still exists, but they had a month-long summer study abroad program for teens when I was in high school (I went in 2012, I believe). You do a lot of field trips and cultural excursions, but also take a couple classes and get a feel for the UK higher ed system. A good mix of American kids and continental European kids.

I had an absolute blast, but also realized I preferred the style of a US liberal arts college and didn't want to spend my college years so far away. But several students from my summer program did apply, and ultimately attended St Andrews. Would definitely recommend having them try the summer program if your kid is considering St Andrews or any similar school in the UK.

[Anonymous]

In the UK the student is an adult and everything goes through them. UK administrators have no patience for US helicopter parents.

St Andrews is a fine university and provides an excellent education, but one that is very different than what finds in the US. Little or no group projects, very few if any multiple choice exams, no quizzes to help students prepare for exams.

^^^^no skin in this game, but is “helicopter parent” even the right term anymore? Or should it just be “parent”. It’s so easy to lump parents together and make them feel stupid. Who’s paying the bills?

Eliminating all different kinds of projects, tests, papers, quizzes = ‘very fine university’ that’s certainly a different approach than the US.

It sounds like St Andrews has figured out a way to lure the “helicopter parents” they dislike with the “perceived prestige” someone mentioned before. These terrible parents are the ones who help their kids get all the way to Scotland instead of insisting on the local state U instead.

It’s a hot school right now- there should be more scrutiny, there’s so much weird discussion about it in here- where there’s smoke there’s fire?

[Anonymous]

Yes- they need American money, they are on the American common app, but they aren’t included in the US News rankings, so they don’t need to try.

[Anonymous]

Helicopter Parents were the baby boomers- the most catered to generation, who expected the most for their millennial children. Today’s college parents are solid Gen X. Gen X has such low expectations for special treatment- if there are complaints the University is taking advantage, it’s probably true.