Tantrum issues, help!

[Anonymous]

I am an after-school nanny for two girls, 4 and 10. While things are mostly smooth sailing, I have been having an issue with the little one throwing massive tantrums any time she can't have her way. I have been a nanny for close to 10 years and have never encountered episodes this bad. MB and I are in close communication and I discuss all of my strategies with her, she can't seem to provide any suggestions as this behavior is only expressed when I am around. So far I have tried:
-firm warning when behavior begins, I tell her to make a different choice/stop the unacceptable behavior or X consequence will happen
-When she inevitably continues or escalates I immediately follow-through with the warning and institute the consequence
-I've tried time outs in her room, on a stair, in a kitchen chair, etc.(4 minutes, timer starts when she is quiet, door open and I sit silently outside)
-These are usually 4 minutes of her screaming her head off and trying to leave
-I attempted to have her do physical activity (walk up and down the stairs) to interrupt the spiral of emotions
-I have staunchly ignored behaviors that she knows will provoke a response
-I have been consistent and un-emotional when "punishments" are taking place.

Any suggestions from the crowd? I'm not at a breaking point but I would like to figure out something that works soon!

[Anonymous]

How long have you been with them?

She may just be testing you.


What are the tantrums about?

Do they occur at a certain time?


Have you tried praising her when behavior is appropriate?

Have you tried curbing the behavior before it starts?

Could she benefit from an additional snack, rest period or one on one time?

Would giving her more choices be helpful?

[Anonymous]

One thing I have seen work is asking a random question.

It throws them off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How long have you been with them?

She may just be testing you.


What are the tantrums about?

Do they occur at a certain time?


Have you tried praising her when behavior is appropriate?

Have you tried curbing the behavior before it starts?

Could she benefit from an additional snack, rest period or one on one time?

Would giving her more choices be helpful?

I'm well aware she is testing me, she just doesn't respond to things that normally work! I'll try the question idea the other PP suggested.
To answer your questions:
The tantrums are literally about anything and everything. If she wants something and I say no, or I ask her to do something and she doesn't want to they are triggered so they are pretty hard to curb.
We have a snack as soon as we get home, as I know this can be a trigger. Unfortunately, she's at school all day and in after school activities so I can't influence sleeping/eating patterns.
I give choices where appropriate but things such as wearing a coat when it is snowing aren't optional (this one is a fight most days).

[Anonymous]

Make the time-outs longer. This "one minute for year of age" is completely arbitrary and not based on anything. I leave my kids in time-out until they calm down and can speak in a rational way. Then we talk (without judgement) about what happened.

My four-year-old would repeat over and over again "But I want_____" and I would say "I know that you want ______ but you cannot have it now because..." about three times, with a warning of the last time it was going to be explained and then time out. It would make me laugh to myself when he would hear me tell him for the last time and then, still screaming and crying, walk to the time-out chair himself!

[Anonymous]

For the coat give her the choice of coats. " It's snowing or it's cold which coat would you like to wear?."


Or
" It's cold out what do you think we should wear?

Make sure she has plenty of warning is in 5 minutes it's time to get your coat so we can get sister from the bus stop. What do you think we will see while we walk?

When she gets home from school let her have relax time.

Put yourself in time out by that I mean you say I understand you want x you cannot have x. But I will not speak with you until you calm your body and you are not using a screaming and crying voice. I do not like it when you talk to me that way it's not appropriate. I will talk to you when it you are calm.
Then walk away. Do not engage at all completely ignore her. Focus your attention on everything else.

Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

What about having her see the logical (and natural) consequences?" You don't want to wear a coat? Are you sure, it's really cold out? " if she says no, let her go out, and see how cold it is. Im not saying force her to suffer, if this is a park visit or what have you, maybe it's not the best time to try, or plan on being ok with a VERY short trip. But to run to the car from the house, then the car to school won't hurt her, and is a logical consequence. Pick your battles...what must be done (we must hold hands in a parking lot), and where is it better to let her see for herself what happens when she ignores.

[Anonymous]

Logical consequences can be tricky for nannies.

I'm all for them, but you have to make sure parents are on board.

Otherwise neighbor sees kid without coat etc and suddenly nanny is on the hot seat and MB is ready to fire for nanny not exercising good judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about having her see the logical (and natural) consequences?" You don't want to wear a coat? Are you sure, it's really cold out? " if she says no, let her go out, and see how cold it is. Im not saying force her to suffer, if this is a park visit or what have you, maybe it's not the best time to try, or plan on being ok with a VERY short trip. But to run to the car from the house, then the car to school won't hurt her, and is a logical consequence. Pick your battles...what must be done (we must hold hands in a parking lot), and where is it better to let her see for herself what happens when she ignores.

OP here. I am usually on board with natural consequences, at this point, it is just becoming a power struggle. I think it sends a pretty clear message when I say "put on your coat" (or whatever else), she says "no" and then I come back with "Ok, see what happens". I fear that all she will learn is that she gets her way whenever she says no. I really struggle with this one because, honestly, I don't care half the time. I am usually great at picking my battles, this little one is just really testing me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the coat give her the choice of coats. " It's snowing or it's cold which coat would you like to wear?."


Or
" It's cold out what do you think we should wear?

Make sure she has plenty of warning is in 5 minutes it's time to get your coat so we can get sister from the bus stop. What do you think we will see while we walk?

When she gets home from school let her have relax time.

Put yourself in time out by that I mean you say I understand you want x you cannot have x. But I will not speak with you until you calm your body and you are not using a screaming and crying voice. I do not like it when you talk to me that way it's not appropriate. I will talk to you when it you are calm.
Then walk away. Do not engage at all completely ignore her. Focus your attention on everything else.

Hang in there.

Thanks for your response. I love giving kids choices, and the approach you described is the one I usually take. In this situation, I am picking them both up from school so the options are limited.
The language you use is great too, and very similar to the way I communicate.
It's been nice to see positive, constructive commentary for a change!!