Need Advice! My nanny expects me to pay her when our family goes on vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that guaranteed hours are a standard perk for positions that pay under the table. It isn't as standard as everyone wants to think for above board positions but its much rarer for under the table jobs.

OP- you may want to call your nannies former reference and confirm whether she did receive guaranteed hours. Its likely that she never did but read or heard somewhere that other nannies get this benefit. If this is the case, she is lying to you and trying to renegotiate her compensation. Not good.

If her former employer did give her guaranteed hours, your still within your right to say no as you never offered it and she never asked. However, at least you would know that she was being honest in saying she received this in the past.

Where in this post does it say anything about OP's nanny claiming to have received guaranteed hours?

Guaranteed hours are extremely common, whether paid above or under the table.
The nanny should have negotiated this prior to accepting the position.
OP-if you refuse to guarantee your nanny's hours she will most likely quit. I would.
Nobody wants to worry about how they're going to pay bills when their employer decides to go on a vacation.
A friendly word of advice- unless you offer this very common "perk" you will continue to find yourself in this situation.
Nannies will view your paltry salary and non-guaranteed hours as a transition job.
They'll wait for something better to come along-which it will-and quit.

[Anonymous]

OP ignore the nasty nanny. There is one poster who loves to put forward the idea that nannies are extortionists. Once you hire them, you should give them anything they ask for or your children will suffer trauma.

Some nannies do play this game and intentionally don't ask for anything at the interview and then later on keep hitting you up for new things. They aren't naive and just forgot to mention something. They are banking on the idea that you will be afraid to lose them so you will increase their compensation. They know that if they are honest and make these requests in the interview that another nanny might be hired so they wait.

The really good professional nannies don't do this because they are qualified enough to compete for many jobs and they can be honest with employers. The mediocre or less qualified nannies do play this game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP ignore the nasty nanny. There is one poster who loves to put forward the idea that nannies are extortionists. Once you hire them, you should give them anything they ask for or your children will suffer trauma.

Some nannies do play this game and intentionally don't ask for anything at the interview and then later on keep hitting you up for new things. They aren't naive and just forgot to mention something. They are banking on the idea that you will be afraid to lose them so you will increase their compensation. They know that if they are honest and make these requests in the interview that another nanny might be hired so they wait.

The really good professional nannies don't do this because they are qualified enough to compete for many jobs and they can be honest with employers. The mediocre or less qualified nannies do play this game.

Please understand that your really good professional nannies, cost more up front, so as everyone knows, "you get what you pay for".

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:Right now, you need to sit down and talk about a contract. Guaranteed hours are not a plush benefit, they are a basic benefit that is reality based. YOUR choice to leave town, you pay nanny just like you'd pay daycare of any type.

If you don't settle these issues now with a detailed contract, you will have more issues pop up down the line.

This pretty much sums it up. What gets me is how many of the discussions on this board could have easily been avoided if a contract that was understandable and agreed to by both parties had existed from the beginning. And NannyDeb is right, quaranteed hours are standard, at least for full time nannies. OP, apply a little common sense here. Think about the example another PP gave-you wouldn't have any problem if YOUR employer told you you would not be paid while THEY went on vacation even if you were available and willing to work? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

The problem with the common sense approach is that many of us have worked hourly positions. It's actually quite rare in most hourly positions to be paid when you are not scheduled to work. Our nanny got guarenteed hours, and I agree its a good benefit to discuss. But I wish we could tone down the outrage when people don't know to discuss it. The onus truly is on the person who wants an extra benefit to ask for it.

[Anonymous]

The problem with the common sense approach is that many of us have worked hourly positions. It's actually quite rare in most hourly positions to be paid when you are not scheduled to work. Our nanny got guarenteed hours, and I agree its a good benefit to discuss. But I wish we could tone down the outrage when people don't know to discuss it. The onus truly is on the person who wants an extra benefit to ask for it.

Agreed. Many moms have some experience working an hourly job where you are only paid for the hours worked but have moved on in their careers into salaried positions. In salaried positions, you don't negotiate an hourly rate, you negotiate an annual salary. You don't get paid more when you work more than 40 hours. In this area, there are very few salaried jobs where you can get away with only working 40 hours. Most people end up working 45-60 hours when you factor in on-line work in the evenings, weekends etc. Our office has had instances where it closed and hourly temps or contractors were not paid. Salaried employees were paid though most did some work on-line anyway.

Nannies know all about the benefits that they want. They also know that many offers don't include these benefits. The nannies need to ask for this upfront.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is tough because it is absolutely something that should have been handled/discussed during the hiring process. Do you have any agreement re holidays, vacation/sick time, etc...? How long has she been with you? Is she full time (every work day, all day?) How satisfied are you with her overall? Are you prepared to lose her if she can't accept the unpaid week or is it worth the money to pay her some/all of it?

Obviously you need to decide how to handle this but it sounds like you don't have a solid agreement about leave/vacation time (for all parties) and that is clearly needed.

Typically a nanny who works full time for a family and for whom it is their primary employment would reasonably expect to be paid even when the family decides they don't need her for any given day or set of days. Some agreements ask the nanny to take a week of vacation concurrent with the family's vacation but not all.

I'm an MB and our nanny gets two weeks of vacation leave (plus sick leave and holidays) and she can take that vacation time whenever she likes (giving us notice so we can plan for it obviously). When we have travelled with the kids she gets paid - even though we're not there. It's not her fault that we don't need her - she would be expected to be available to us that day so we need to honor our agreement.

I think you, and your nanny, made some rookie mistakes and now you're paying the price. A lot depends on whether you're pleased with her and want to retain her. If you are then I think it's reasonable for her to expect to be paid for that week - especially if she's working full time for you. And, as I'm sure you know, if you really like her and she's doing a good job you are getting a pretty amazing deal for $14/hr under the table. Especially if you're in the DC metropolitan area. (I hope you're prepared for the flaming you're likely to receive.)

My advice is to first look at the big picture - if you don't want to find another nanny then the cost of her salary for one week is probably a small price to pay. Second - get an agreement between you that deals with these things so you all know what you're agreeing to and what to expect going forward.

+1 - and kudos to the nanny for calmly discussing this with you in advance of the planned vacation. Another MB agreeing with the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its manipulative and dishonest for nannies to not negotiate upfront for benefits.

Well, that certainly is one way to look at it. I think both parties are 'at fault' if you want to characterize it as that as it appears they mutually failed to have the tough nanny work agreement conversation prior to beginning employment. And as I posted previously, I think the nanny showed great maturity discussing this with the employer and stating her expectations before it became a conversation "What do you mean I don't get paid? I already wrote my rent check!" kind of exchange!

OP doesn't have to agree, of course. As a parent though I can think of many good reasons why OP might want to agree.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't sound like the nanny was discussing this in a professional manner at all. The OP offered a compromise in banking hours. The nanny didn't offer any compromise solutions just wanted the OP to give in. The nanny didn't apologize or acknowledge that she should have brought this up when she was hired. I would bet that this nanny did not receive guaranteed hours at her last job if she is illegal and under the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't sound like the nanny was discussing this in a professional manner at all. The OP offered a compromise in banking hours. The nanny didn't offer any compromise solutions just wanted the OP to give in. The nanny didn't apologize or acknowledge that she should have brought this up when she was hired. I would bet that this nanny did not receive guaranteed hours at her last job if she is illegal and under the table.

OP said that nanny has a child of her own. She can't just allow OP to bank hours to use as she pleases if she has other commitments. It's not unprofessional to have your boundaries and stick to them. I also don't accept banking hours as acceptable, but this is something I discuss up front. I also will help with household chores but there are some things I will NOT do. This doesn't make me unprofessional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't sound like the nanny was discussing this in a professional manner at all. The OP offered a compromise in banking hours. The nanny didn't offer any compromise solutions just wanted the OP to give in. The nanny didn't apologize or acknowledge that she should have brought this up when she was hired. I would bet that this nanny did not receive guaranteed hours at her last job if she is illegal and under the table.

OP said that nanny has a child of her own. She can't just allow OP to bank hours to use as she pleases if she has other commitments. It's not unprofessional to have your boundaries and stick to them. I also don't accept banking hours as acceptable, but this is something I discuss up front. I also will help with household chores but there are some things I will NOT do. This doesn't make me unprofessional.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the common sense approach is that many of us have worked hourly positions. It's actually quite rare in most hourly positions to be paid when you are not scheduled to work. Our nanny got guarenteed hours, and I agree its a good benefit to discuss. But I wish we could tone down the outrage when people don't know to discuss it. The onus truly is on the person who wants an extra benefit to ask for it.

This is not the same as an hourly office position and we all know it. That aside, if your hourly job unexpectedly closed or you were just told not to show up for a week, you would be pretty upset as well. Yes, PTO is technically a "perk" but still one that is VERY common in this line of work, both OP and her nanny should have known this and discussed it up front, as everyone has pointed out. The fact that this didn't happen does not make the nanny entitled and manipulative, she is just trying not to get screwed here. Bottom line OP, YOU are deciding you do not need her, she is not taking the week off. You need to pay her or you will find yourselves in very awkward waters when you return...if you still even have a nanny.

[Anonymous]

OP,
Have you made a choice?

[Anonymous]

OP hasn't been back. Probably just trolling and decided to ignite the usual flame war regarding guaranteed hours.

[Anonymous]

Wow. A reminder how lucky I am! The fam I work for has gone away a total of 5 weeks plus days here and there and I've been paid for it all. Without any discussion. It's not my fault I won't be working. If I didn't get paid, yeah, I'd look for a new job. I don't take advantage of this, I've only taken 2 sick days ever, one after a bad car accident and one w a stomach bug. I don't take a separate vacation. But yeah I would be appalled at not being paid when a family goes away! That's incredibly unfair.